Introduction and a first time build thread

General Discussion
1

Greetings all!

I've been reading and lurking for a few weeks and finaly decided to start my first build thread.

I've made a few hollow wooden boards but this will be my first one from foam.

After searching for an affordable blank I got a bit discouraged by the shipping rates etc...

I decided that since I'll likely ruin the first one anyway I would just make my own from insulating foam for practice.

I decided to go with xps foam because the eps stuff they had at Home Depot and Lowes just looked too fragile for a first time project.

I've read varying accounts of how good and/or bad xps is.

I chose it purely because it looked easier to deal with.

I wound up getting the pink stuff from Home Depot just because I didn't feel like driving all the way back to Lowes for the blue.

 

So here I go...

I hope you guys don't mind another newbie with the same old questions making the same old mistakes.

 

I got a sheet of two inch and a sheet of one inch.

  

 

I read a few posts that said to keep the glue away from the edges so you don't have to shape a glue line so I drew my template on the top of the bottom (thicker) sheet. Then I scratched it up with some 36 grit paper to get a good mechanical bond.

 

Next I trowled on some mixed epoxy being careful to stay inside the lines.

 

 I did the same for the top sheet and then stacked them up on my rocker table (which was already set) and piled on some weights.

The rocker table is the one I use for my wooden boards. I didn't use the built in clamping mechanism because I was afraid it would damage the foam.

Looking back I think this pink stuff could have handled it well enough.

 

I was pleased with the amount of rocker that it held when I took off the weights but the more I work the foam the more rocker I seem to lose.

I think I'm OK though because I think I have enough foam to cut some rocker out of the bottom.

 

I drew on the template outline and rough cut it with my japanese hand saw.

You can see a few of my woodies in the background.

 

After that I cleaned up the lines with my cheap ass Ryobi electric planer using the edge attachment.

 

Next I shaped the deck pretty close to the way I want it using the electric planer, the sureform and a drywall sanding screen.

When I was done for the night I put it back on the rocker table where it will be stored until my next working session.

I'm hoping this will force some memory into the foam and get back some of the rocker that was lost.

 

I found that this pink foam responds extremely well to the planer.

Not as well to the sureform. It cuts OK but it tends to tear a bit.

Maybe I just have to learn to use it.

My only experience with a surform is doing bodywork on my old '68 Camaro, back in the day, shaving off buckets of bondo.

The technique doesn't translate well. 

I found it was best to start with a very light touch at first.

Once I got a good rough surface to work with I could then get a bit more agressive with the surform.

Cleaning up and fine shaping with the sanding screen was a pleasure.

 

So, that's as far as I've gotten so far.

I'm pretty happy with how quickly this is progressing considering that I have no idea what I'm doing.

I had originally planned to cut the rectangular blank in half lengthwise and add a thin plywood stringer but I was so anxious to play with my new electric planer that I just skipped over that step.

Now I know its going to be a pain to add one but on the other hand I'm wondering if its really necessary.

The foam seems pretty firm in its current state and once the glass goes on it should be even sturdier no?

Anyway, this is just a learning project so I'm probably going to leave it stringerless and see how it turns out.

What I'm hoping to get out of this project is an introduction to shaping foam and not a top notch board.

 

Thanks for reading if your still with me and thanks to everyone here for offering up all the information I needed to get this far.

 

 

 

2

Hello sqaulyboy, and welcome over here at sway's!  There's a few of us "woodie" types here!  I won a blank at Thrailkill's shaping seminar, so I'll be shaping my first foamie soon too.  Don't forget to add a link to your website on your signature (if you'd like everyone stomping through your scrapbooks, of course!). 

Looking forward to watching this one progress! 

Pink, eh?  I think you should call this your "Pete Townend" model - Pete was at the Sacred Craft show, wearing his trademark pink!  Here he is with Shaun Thompson.  Got 'em both to sign my "surfboard" book!

- Huck

 

3

Thanks for the welcome Huck!

I'ts going to be interesting to see the differences and similarities in foam construction versus wood.

4

Welcome to Swaylock's.  I've enjoyed reading your build threads over at the other forum.  I have never done it before, but I have read that it is best to have at least three pieces to laminate when bending the rocker into the foam.  It looks like you only have two.

5

I like seeing other people’s projects with this type of foam. I think Swied has a good point. And you have the thicker piece on the bottom, so unless you carry volume to the rail up front, your glue line will recede quite a bit and you will lose all of your nose rocker as that bond is shorn back. But obviously you have meddled with wood, so you could fix that problem easily in various ways, with skins and or stringers of different types. Nothing is set in stone. Have fun

6

If you stay stringerless just do more layers of glass so It won’t be too flexy. I think alot of the guys are doing triple 6 on top and double on bottome but I can’t remember exactly.

7

You can add more rocker when glassing too. Take a look at this (http://www.surfersteve.com/polystyrene.htm)

8

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Excellent points all around.

I'll give this a good hard study before I continue.

I'm still trying to decide if I'll put in a stringer or not.

One minute I'm convinced that I will and the next I think I'll skip it.

I'm hoping to get some shop time tonight so I'll make up my mind then.

I have some 1/4" louann ply that I'll use if I do.

Do you think the electric planer will tear that up or will it cut it cleanly?

I've never used this tool except for the little bit of foam I cut with it on this job so I don't know what to expect from it yet.  

Oh, and thanks for that link Ian. That's a good read.

9

Hey Squaly, Howzit? If you want to set your head spinning, go to the " Worth Reading" topic posted by: Nayrda. This will get you really re-considering your whole view of rocker and how it changes with certain designs. It’s a argument for solid stringers. Great post by the way.

10

Hey tblank. Thanks for that tip. Yeah I read that post and it was a good read. I’ll have to read it a few more times to soak it in. I always thought it was the nose rocker that made all the difference but now I see what I was missing by overlooking the importance of the tail.
Evem more important I suppose is how it all ties together.

11

Finally got some work done on this project.

At this point I'm a final sanding away from laying on some glass.

A couple of questions and then a few pics:

Q: I've heard that rough sanding an xps blank before applying glass can help prevent delam issues. Any comments on this? Recommendations for what grit to use?

Q: I'd like to do something to cover the pink but again I'm afraid of delam issues. Krylon claims that their Fusion spray paint chemically bonds with plastic. I'm wondering if I could apply the fist coat of epoxy directly to the foam, paint that with Fusion spray paint, then add more layers of epoxy. Good idea? Bad idea? Anyone have a better idea?

 

Now some pics:

Rail bands cut with the surform.

 

And blended in with som sand paper.

 

Getting cosy with the woodies.

Lots of rocker. Maybe too much?

And one last shot just to show the board I used as a reference.

12

The board is looking good! 

I don't have the specific answer to your questions.  But as you know, I painted the entire bottom of my last wood board.  I used automotive spray enamel for the yellow, brushed on oil based enamel for the white, latex acrylic artist's paint for the picture, with a coat of polyurethane (water-based) clear over it.  Glassed with system 3 epoxy, and everything seems good so far, no signs of any delam issues.

13

squaly

nice board

and cheap too right?

do you have vacuum, to attach a stiff veneer?

 

14

Thanks for the compliments guys. That means a lot . I wasn't sure what kind of reaction I was going to get with this build.

Huck,

You went over all that paint with no delam issues so far? That's interesting. I'm thinking that if I can get a good bond between the first layer of epoxy/glass and foam I should be able to paint over that and then lay on more epoxy. I think trying to color the foam first will be disasterous.

Wouter,

I'm not set up for vacum bagging yet. Maybe in the future. And yeah, damn cheap!

I just ordered a 6'3" blank from Pau Hana and that blank  alone is going to cost me more than this whole build.

I bought that blank because I want to see what its like to work on a "real" blank. After that I think my next one is going to be made from eps insulation foam.

I'm trying to get a feel for all of the different materials so I can decide which one I like working with the best.

15

Well, I decided to add a stringer after all.

Since the board is almost finished at this point I had to get creative.

It was pretty simple after all.

First I snapped a chalk line down the middle:

Then I cut along the line with my japan saw:

Then I took one of the halves, traced it out on a rough stringer that I already had prepared and cut it out on the band saw. I took this oportunity to correct my rocker a bit by flatten it out just slightly. I forgot to photograph these steps.

Next I painted the inside edge of each half with mixed epoxy and clamped the whole thing together with shrink wrap. This was surprisingly easy. The sand bags are there to hold the new rocker in place while the epoxy cures.

Also started on some fins.

I lost count but i think I have about 25 or 26 laters of 4oz e-glass here.

I hope its enough:

16

Well, putting the stringer in was easy enough. Shaping it down was a bitch! I used some hardwood ply that I picked up at home depot. I bought a 2'x4' sheet, cut my stringer in two halves and then atached the halves using a finger joint (I think that's what its called). I rough cut the shape of the steringer to start then traced the outline of the board onto the rough stringer and cut that out with a band saw. When I made the band saw cut I tried to keep the bottom line as clean as possible but went wide on the top (deck side) curve figuring that I would shape that down later. I cleaned up the bottom curve using a jointer planer and a block sander but again left the top side rough.

After gluing in the stringer I then set about shaping it to match the board. Holy sh!t this part sucked!

Aparently the ply that I chose is EXTREMELY hard. sanding block just makes it shiney, planer is too hard to keep level and gouges foam on either side of the stringer every time I loose my center, surform cuts it but again makes a mess of the surrounding foam. It didn't occur to me to try a block plane. That may have helped. PLUS, all of that dark brown dust that I'm making when I cut the stringer has become embeded in the foam and has discolored it badly. I don't care so much about that on this board because I want to cover that Pepto pink anyway but if this had been a white blank that I want to keep white I'd be pissed!

Next time I do this I'll either choose a softer wood or be very careful to shape the stringer first. Its much easier to bring the foam down to the stringer than it is to bring the stringer down to the foam

 

17

Hey Squaly, howzit? I know I’m late in this but with the plywood you are going against the grain on some of the “plys”. When the sheet is layed up the layers are cross grained with each ply. A solid wood stringer is MUCH easier to plane but a little more in cost initially. The time saved is worth it to me. I like to use cedar or basswood, but poplar is an alternative and not too expensive. Be sure to look at the grain in the wood to orient it longitudinally for strength. Adios.

18

Thanks Tblank,
On my new project I used pine for the stringer instead of plywood and it’s a pleasure to work with in comparison.

19

Well, that was easier than I expected.

First I hand sanded down as far as I dared with a sanding block and 80 grit:

Then I painted over:

Looks pretty darn good and I didn't even have to sand all the way through the glass.

I did not expect that.

So now to add one more layer of glass on top, attach fins and add one more layer of glass to bottom then hot coat and finish.

I want to get this one as nice as I can.

I picked up a buffer wheel and want to see if I can get a really nice finish on it.

 

20

wow, I can't believe its been over two years since I started this board and I still haven't finished it.

I've completed several other boards in the meantime but this ones been sitting on the rack ever since.

 

Anyway, I promised it to a lady friend of my sons so now I have to finish it.

She wants a board to learn on and offered to pay me to make one for her so I offered her this one for free.

Told her if she doesn't like it she can toss it in the can when she's done with it.

 

So the problem is, now that it's destined for someone else, I want to make it as perfect as possible.

One thing that I wouldn't care about for myself is that there is a spot on the top deck about the size of my palm where the glass wrinkled up. It's not terrible and its not in a spot that would matter but I want to clean it up for her.

 

What do you think is the best way to handle this?

Should I just sand through it and put on a patch?

That's the only thing I can think to do.

I'll post a picture if it would help.

 

Thanks for any advice.