issues with Volan fin panels

General Discussion
1

Hi all, recently i have started working with an old fin guru who has had a few problems with Volan Fin Panels latley(he has not had too much to do with Volan before). The top of the panel looks fine but when it was poped there was cloth showing thur (in strange looking lines) on the bottom and some half way thur. He was puzzeled.  His questions are basically:

  1. Dose the Volan take longer to cure than other regular 7.5 once cloth. i.e is there anything in the Volan chemical make up that could cause it to take longer??

  2. He did one in october was perfect, the last few have been funny, could it be just not enough resin as much more is needed to saturate the Volan.

  3. could this be caused by a bad roll of cloth, which could be the case as both panels were off the same roll.

when i left he was on the phone to some guy named George but i didnt have the time for that conversation it could have gone on for hours.

any suggestions are welcome. 

2

The type of cloth has no bearing on cure time. It is a property of the resin, only.

Given your description and without any photos to illustrate the problem, I’d say it was improper wetting out . IOW, not enough resin.

This would be due to laying up multiple layers at once and not getting the bottom layers saturated.

3

Agree.

4

…old fin guru?..are you sure?

5

I had the same reaction!

6

A “Guru” should have no problems at all.

“Gurus” can do it in their sleep with their eyes blind-folded.

Smells of “Rookie”.

7

" an old fin guru who has had a few problems with Volan Fin Panels latley  (he has not had too much to do with Volan before). "

 

…is what he wrote …

8

Volan has changed quite a bit over the years.

9

well he reckons he done about 3000 panels never had this problem before, the Volan panal he did in october was perfect.Also the left over rolls look slighlty diffrent in colour.

After consult with george he seems to think it has something to with the heat? Too much heat. The panel was layup up in one session, with 3 batches of resin. All done in a few hours on a summer morning it was quite warm in the factory. The glass and the lights draw the heat down to the bottom of the panel??

Dose this sound plausible? 

10

… hi again , " Bankswar " !

 

  do you have any photos , please ?

 

 Also …

how big was the panel ?

how many layers of volan cloth ? how many layers of volan did he lay up at a time ?

 

 how much resin ? […you mentioned 'three batches of resin ’ ?]

what percentage catalyst  ?  [if he was using polyester  resin ? ]

was the panel squeegeed , or rollered ?

what was the temperature in the factory ?

much humidity ?

was it laid up on thick glass ?

 

… '** done in a few hours **, on a summer morning ’ … depending on the size of the panel [?] , a few hours is a while …

Was he using epoxy resin , perhaps ?   [ I ask , because when I use polyester resin for my panels ,  they are usually good to be filler coated , within an hour , on , say , a 20-25 degree day . ]

All these things can be factors when laying up fin panels …

Certainly a photo of the panel , the work setup , and a bit more info could help , as I guess he is wanting to avoid a repeat of the problem  , eh ?

 

 I’m sure , if it was George the kneeboarder that he spoke to on the phone [? are you guys located near there  ?]  , your mate would have got some really good info from him !

 Yes , he can talk for ages …I rang him once with " a quick question about fins" , and 45 minutes later was almost overwhelmed by the AMOUNT of info received .

George should definately write a book , I reckon !  … I was stoked how really informative , and helpful , he was to me , a complete stranger [ who , at that stage , was living on the other side of Australia ! ]

 

       cheers mate !

              ben

11

YES.

12

…hello FINS; man, if he s a guru he should know; most fin panels are done with volan…because is cheaper.

Too much heat: exothermic reaction without a place to release the gases (due to the layers) so you obtain some areas with tiny bubbles and yellowish resin BUT nothing more than that.

the problem could be old/cheap/humidity in the strands of the fiberglass.

 

-I m not talking nonsense here cause I make the fins for all my customs boards for over 25 years, included all types of fins for boxes, etc

13

yeah ben we are pretty close to George. I see him when matting about when i walk my dogs when the banks are good for him. I am renting a place just over the hill from his little spot. So many question I could answer them, but i wont, as i was not there to witness this layup. maybe in the future.

Reverb he seems to say Volan was 3 dollars a meter more expensive here in Aus, that was the reason he never used it. Now new customers are willing to pay for that Old green look, aparently. 

And the heat and humidity and the day it was layup were both pretty extrem hottest day of the summer so far and by far the sweatesty for me at work in the bush.

I looked at the bottom of the panel today i think it is looking worse, you can kinda pick strands of fiber form the bottom and where we scratched it the other day has shown up in white lines.

Ok a photo to see if this helps.

Thats a fin from the october panel

 

 

1632×1224 630 KB

14

thanks for the photo …

 

so … polyester resin used ?

 

yep , volan costs much more here than normal 4 or 6oz cloth.  [ I have only ever layed up two volan panels …both were done last year . On 20-25 degree C days . ]

 

 

15

…hello Bankswar, still I maintain that humidity (but in the fibers, not the weather) + cheap glass + too much heat (% MEKP) is the main reason.

Hello Fins, the “normal” fiberglass" in most countries is Volan finished…the fiberglass that you find in a hardware store “normally” is with volan finish

16

hiya reverb !

 

here in oz , its called silane cloth  …

 

  …different to volan ?

17

Ben, here is what I found online, the link on the bottom is a interesting overview of fiberglass fabrics and treatments:

Silane=silicon-based treatment to promote adhesion betwwen resin and glass (Dow-Corning)

Volan=chromium-based treatment to promote adhesion (DuPont)

There are others, some formulated for increased clarity for surf-related applications.

http://www.jpsglass.com/jps_databook.pdf

 

18

Yes. Silane and volan are two different finishes. It’s the chromium that gives volan its distinctive look.

19

Laminate fin panels 2 layers at a time for 100% resin saturation. Especially 7.5 oz Volan.

~Brian

187 RT 71 | Manasquan | NJ | 08736