I've seen the future and it amazing

General Discussion
1

Just an obso and not o get anyone down but…

Got to see the skunkworks of a renown tinkler and it’s amazing what some folks are doing without alot of fanfare or press.

Some guys or so far ahead of us it’s kind of sad…

Not even using the kind of materials we all are using but ending up with a similar an 'better" product.

How about a high performance pro model you can pick up horizontally with 2 fingers… Figure maybe 2-3 lbs max conventiionally glassed?

And how those hollow Aviso Carbon fiber boards Lost and some “special” companies are getting to experiment which most of us know nothing about…

Learned alot about stiff versus flexible versus light.

Learned that not all materials need to be surfboard materials including foam, resin and glass there’s alot of advanced and better stuff other industries are using instead.

Yes blue foam XPS is viable if done correctly

Yes you can get rid of the standard foam core altogethor

and yes you can engineer long lasting flex with out using skin sandwiches

Sometimes you have to think out of the box but it’s amazing to see what guys on the outer edge of the spectrum are getting into.

We’re just a bunch of neanderthals (balsa vacuum lam crew) in comparison.

I’m sure Bert can attest and why he’s probably laughing at our “great” discovery…

Guys on the edge have passed all us by way back when…

I figure we’re all 5-10 years behind these guys.

Oh yea they aren’t making alot of money doing it either… Just surviving making a “better” product

2

when do the masses get to see this…if ever?

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after accidently wandering in somewhere I shouldn’t I glad to be alive…

Just kidding.

Amazingly the owner was more than happy to show me what they were doing when he found i was a alternate material tinkerer and not trying to get into the business… Maybe he just felt sorry for me I don’t know

Kind of embarrassing to gush about all this stuff you think is the state of the art only to find out they did it years ago and have moved on to something better. But I’m sure just from parity this will meld out sooner or later.

Aviso Carbon boards will hit the market big time soon.

They are very very light but stiff, although not as stiff as a surftech.

Be interesting to see if it’s skin or core technology that wins out…

I do know that it won’t involve the kind of stuff we currently make boards of out today though.

But think about thi…

take everything that Gary Young knows and has been through, mix that with everything that the maui sailboard manufacturing crew knows, tie that into everything the snowboard manufacturing industry know and you have a start. How about a foam material that doesn’t deteriorate or lose it’s elasticity over time absorbs shock is flexible and shapeable… That’s another.

Bottomline I got out of it…

This industry is plain ignorant regarding high tech sports manufacturing.

yup we’re a bunch of imbeciles…

The veil of deceit has been lifted

4

I’m an imbecile having fun though

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…so, are you going to kick down the info, or keep it all to yourself?

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yes, it’s time to leave the cave.

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and can i set it up in my old caravan ou the back???

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Better tell what you know, kenz, maybe you should keep it to yourself, a couple of hints wouldn’t hurt, I wonder what’s going down in Cali?

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Ok I’m sold, I just threw away my entire quiver. Never did like that 9’6" Brewer gun (keith) When do we start making these incredible lighter than air hyper-alloy combat surf vehicles? What color can we make em …It’s all about the color.

-Jay

Red boards are the fastest.

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Not mine to share…

These guys like Bert will reveal things when they are ready but it validated for me what Bert and Greg’s been telling us all along… The surfboard building industry is way behind competitive industries doing similar things for other extreme sports. Makes you wonder how it’s been able to survive so long as is, maybe it’s the illusion of hype and cool that we all permeate in this sport…

But I’m like chippy… an imbecile having fun cause you can’t ask for more

Like my brother is alway telling me; “face it you are a shitty surfer, no equipment in the world is going to change that”

Learn to rip on a piece of cr**p like some of the guys I grew up on with and you take equipment out of the equation. It’s all about water time, practice, balance, flexibility and perhaps genes.

Thanks chip for putting things back into perspective, I was being to take myself and this thing I’m learning too seriously… Damn scientis training/brainwashing I received in college.

Kind of forgot why I surf in the first place… It’s about having fun no matter what’s going on…

11

Oneula, you’re a worse tease than the chick I met last weekend. She kind of talked the way you type too. At least give us a titty shot, biiyatch.

12

Good call. Keep it under your hat. Let it brew and thicken rather than be diluted. All things in their own time. And then when we see, will be be able to see clearly. Meanwhile, the fun is not diminished, but enhanced by expectancy.

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Here’s a quote from the SurferMag forum on Aviso Carbon Boards from guys that have used and seen’um

Quote:

Dude-

You are right about our glassers being low-tech. We’ve been surfing on foam wrapped with glass/polyester since 1960. Have bikes changed since then? Skis? Snowboards? What’s up with us? Too many doobies before breakfast, man.

But the biggest thing about composites is not the use of epoxy or polyester. True, epoxy is tougher stuff that polyester, but both are just binding materials that basically hold the fibers in place. 90% of the strength comes from the fiber itself. The BIG news is that people are starting to incorporate aerospace technology fibers, like carbon and Kevlar, into surfboards. People have tried wrapping carbon fiber around foam for years, but it’s too stiff. The key is flex. It’s all about flex.

The guys who really seem to have a good grip on this are the Hydro Epic Dudes. Read the tech section of their website - it will blow you away (www.hydroepic.com). There is another board out there under the Lost label, but made by a sailboat guy in NEVADA (some radical breaks there, I guess) that I checked out in Carlsbad, but it looks like a knock-off of the Epic board.

Hydro Epic has been at this for three years - I bought a 9-1 from them in '03. It was amazing! Like nothing I’ve ever surfed before. It’s too light for small or choppy crappy waves, but get into head high or more and you will be blown away. Acceleration down the face - it runs away from other boards like thyey are standing still. It “flexes” in the bottom turn and actually accelerates as you exit - turns like a seven foot board.

My board has a so-so finish on it but I’ve seen their new ones and they are beautiful. The shop I was at also had three Hydro boards shaped by ***** Brewer (6-2 squashtail, 6-6 mini-gun a 7-8 Hybrid) - have not surfed these, but am considering the hybrid.

The Aviso boards also look really nice, but they are heavier than Hydro - inside is different, too. Hydro uses a Kevlar/carbon cloth on the deck Aviso is all carbon. Hydro uses aluminum honeycomb in the skin to get the flex - radical, but expensive! Other guy has a foam core inthe laminate. I believe this is a big difference. Both are hollow.

Have not surfed Aviso board, but it felt stiff in the store. Also, all carbon (black) is going to fry in the sun. . I am obviously predjudiced toward Hydro, but I think the guys who pioneered thistechnology should get our vote - Both boards cost the same, but Lost has big bucks, and they will use them to flood the market… Anybody care to comment on these two guys? Has anyone surfed both?

The one I saw was pure white another pure black very very light felt almost hollow… One guy said 700-800 for his Jeff Johnston 7’6" Aviso Carbon funboard…

As far as the other stuff there’s enough hints for you guys to do your own googling detective work to figure out what I’m talking about…

If Bert and these guys wanted it known they would’ve said something themselves, so I respect that. Like Bert once said the industrial spys are everywhere like here looking to cash in.

The point I wanted to make is that it verified to me what Bert and Greg have been telling us all along. The technology we’re using is all wrong if we want to get to the next level.

14

Found this interesting comparison of core materials on http://www.portafab.com/core_materials.shtml

Shows aluminum honeycomb, ala hydroepic, is fairly light but poor impact resistant. The PVC, ala surf tech, is at the opposite end of the spectrum, excellent impact resistance but heavy. It seems there’s got to be an easier way of getting good torsional strength than all those horizontal stringers.

Honeycomb Cores Kraft Paper Aluminum Polypropylene Nomex™ Weight Med-Low Med-Low Medium Medium Strength Good Excellent Fair Very Good Fire Resistance Poor Excellent Poor Excellent Thermal Control Very Good Poor Good Very Good Sound Control Fair Poor Very Good Fair Impact Resistance Poor Poor Excellent Good Moisture Resistance Poor Excellent Excellent Excellent Cost Low Medium Medium High Foam Cores Characteristic Polystyrene Polyisocyanurate PVC Polyurethane Polyethylene Weight Very Low Med-Low High Med-High Med-High Strength Poor Poor Very Good Very Good Very Good Fire Resistance Poor Excellent Very Good Good Good Thermal Control Very Good Very Good Good Excellent Very Good Sound Control Fair Fair Excellent Excellent Very Good Impact Resistance Fair Poor Excellent Very Good Excellent Moisture Resistance Poor Fair Excellent Very Good Excellent Cost Very Low Med-Low High Med-High Med-High

Edit: That was a table when I cut and pasted it but it didn’t come out. The link should show it.

15

Okay, I went to the Hydroepic site and read some of their tech stuff. In particular "Center of Gravity

The center of gravity is the fundamental pivot point of the surfboard - the point on which the board would balance. By locating the center of mass, surfers can more easily find the “sweet spot” of their board.

Well, that’s not so. The main forces are the lift from the bottom, the rider’s weight from above, and the board’s weight. Each of these can be taken as a vector, and the resultant of these will NOT act through the board’s center of gravity.

For example, if we neglect drift of a fin (assume the fin is a perfect foil) the center of a turn will be on a line perpendicular to the board, and running through the fin.

So, there’s some hype involved. No surprise there.

I saw a Lost carbon swallowtail last week, all black but with the obvious carbon weave on the deck. Just in passing under some kid’s arm.

Gonna have to find out more about this though. Oneula, you’re gonna be pressed for some elucidation at the beach park…

16

Honolulu was there a black breather/drain plug on the tail of that “Lost” carbon board?

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Quote:

Oneula, you’re a worse tease than the chick I met last weekend. She kind of talked the way you type too. At least give us a titty shot, biiyatch.

( yep…“imbeciles” can have fun , too…)

here ya go , “keep on”… [actually , after seeing this shot , you may need to be keeping [your hand] OFF it !!]

(p.s. - for the californians out there …this is what a REAL one looks like !)

768×576 31.1 KB

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Watching Big Brother uncut again Ben are you…you’ll go blind…even worse than me…

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just an old shot I’d been waiting to post here for a while Grant …

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the only problem i have with this new tech is that it seem to push the “lighter is better” angle. sure these materials are strong and light but i prefer to have some wieght in my boards. i still cant see a day when we will all be surfing corky superlight boards. the high performance shortboard industry will take up the new materials, but are the kids going to pay $1000+ for these new boards. time will tell. i like the feel of the current foam/fibreglass boards,i like the way they move on the water. i dont like the the light, flighty, corky feel of the new age tech that is pushed as the future. we still have a long long way to go yet.