Just got my new KG Epoxy Keel Fish shaped by Kenson...

General Discussion
1

Just picked it up today and tried it out on the decent but crowded reef in front of my place. It paddles and catches waves super well, as good as my 6’2" poly KG Mabile, but is quite a bit easier to duck-dive. I wasn’t super stoked on the ride, though. It seemed hard to really jam a turn and bury the rail, and felt a little dead overall. I’ve been riding the 6’2" Mabile and a 6’0" Hynson Twinzer (Awesome board!) lately. Both of these boards have much thinner rails.

Dimensions are:

6’0" x 22 1/2 x 3.

Fins: ply Keel 8" x 5"

8" from Tip of tail

12" tip to tip

6" crack

1/2 Toe

The 6’2" Mabile has 9x 5 keels, 7 inches from the tip that are parrallel with the stringer (0 toe-in), the tail is also 1" narrower than the new board. Its also 22 1/4 inch wide. This board is a bit of a chore to duck-dive!!

KG actually screwed up on the order (wrong color, no leash loop) and are letting me ride this board until they finish a repacement. Should I get the new one identical to this one and hope that I learn to like it over time or ask them to change something. My inclination is to go 5’10" x 22" x 2 3/4" with 1/4 inch toe-in on the fins and thinner rails to make up for the extra float from the eps. Any suggestions??? Thanks!!

2

…photos , please ?

cheers,

ben

3

Here are the fins, you can see the toe in on the left one…

Having trouble resizing the other photos…

4

I surfed it again this morning in some really nice shoulder high waves and still had a hard time turning it. Cutbacks are not the effortless high speed jam that I’m used to. Its really hard to bury that rail. I don’t want to label it a ‘dog’ yet with only two surf but I’m not enjoying it. I usually like working out the nuances of new boards but this one is tough. Any ideas for the next board?

5

Just talked to the guy at KG and asked to talk to Stu Kenson himself. I’m sure he will be able to come up with something better for me than this board. I think this is what happens when you don’t actually talk to the shaper himself.

I think it must be the combination of EPS foam, thick and soft rails, 22 1/2 inch length and my 170lbs weight make it so that I can’t get the rail to ‘bite’ on turns…

6

I bet flat sided fins would make a world of difference…

7

I just received my new 6’2" Quad fish from Stu. Went out yesterday in 3 to 4 ft in HB. Absolutely loved it!! This fish has the Vector 2 Quad fin system. Stu used 2lb foam with 1/8 bass stringer. With this board I was able to lock in steep sections and not spin out. Also with the Quad fins backside turns are very short and precise. My weight is 168, after a few tacos and beers. Ask Stu about Quads.

I will try to send pics, still trying to fiqure out how to download!!

Jeff

8

Glad you are stoked on the board. Can you post the dimensions? I’ll ask Stu about the quad for sure…

Thanks

9

Lokbox,

Why would flat sided fins make such a difference?

By the way, KG won’t use lokbox inserts on epoxy boards…

10

Flat sided fins will redirect the board more and help it turn tighter. You may suffer a little bit of down the line speed but fish boards already go so fast. It’s nice if they turn a little. The reason I mentioned it is because several months ago I had a customer come to me with the same board describing almost word for word the same problems that you mentioned. This board had double foiled wood keels that had zero flex. Said he gave the board plenty of chances to work in all kinds of different waves. He used words like “sluggish” and “hard to turn”. Took the fins off and put boxes in then gave him flat sided Rusty keels with 4oz lay-ups that flexed a bit. He said it just lit the board up! Whole new ride! Wish I had a dollar for every time that’s happened…

11
Quote:

Flat sided fins will redirect the board more and help it turn tighter. You may suffer a little bit of down the line speed but fish boards already go so fast. It’s nice if they turn a little. The reason I mentioned it is because several months ago I had a customer come to me with the same board describing almost word for word the same problems that you mentioned. This board had double foiled wood keels that had zero flex. Said he gave the board plenty of chances to work in all kinds of different waves. He used words like “sluggish” and “hard to turn”. Took the fins off and put boxes in then gave him flat sided Rusty keels with 4oz lay-ups that flexed a bit. He said it just lit the board up! Whole new ride! Wish I had a dollar for every time that’s happened…

I assume that the typical double-foiled keels that you replace are installed “traditional style” with no toe-in? If so, when you replace them with boxes and single-foiled keels, do you add toe by default, or leave them “straight up”?

-Samiam

12

Afroman, I have a few pointers on ordering a custom board. First of all , be very detailed about what you have in mind when placing your order. If you have questions regarding your board, ask to talk to the shaper. I know for a fact that you will be able to talk to the shaper directly by phone or email and he can answer your questions regarding the board that you had shaped. Additionally, with your weight listed at 170 lbs. I think that a width of 22" to 22 1’2" is a bit much, and unless your feet are in the range of say a size 12 to 17, it doesn’t suprise me that your board is a bear to lean over into a turn.

Somewhere around 21" to 21 1/2" would work well for a surfer of your weight. My own fish style boards ( in both keel fin and quad fin set ups) are between 21" and 21 1/2" and on a good day I am around 225 lbs.

Your board was built to the specs listed on your order card ,with the exception of your color specs( what were they, a tint perhaps?) and a leash loop( can be done, but at a significant extra cost, very labor intensive).

As far as your fins are concerned, toe in is 3/16", and yes the board would be looser with either an increase of more toe in angle (which also begins to lose a bit of drive) or going to a flat side foil.

With Kane Garden E-Tech Epoxy’s you can order your board with either glass on keels ( stock fins are double foil, but we have been known to build a set or two of custom single foils)or if you really want them we will install Lokbox fin systems. They offer many different fin templates (including our own), . At this time these are the only fin systems that we offer for a keel fin set up. With the Quad’s and twinzers we usually us Future Fins, they offer a wide variety of templates and have some of the best fin foils available. If you go with a standard Polyurathane ( clark foam style) blank and polyester resin construction, you have your choice of FCS, Lokbox, or glass ons.

The twinzer fin set up is a lot looser thru turns than a keel fin board of the same size and dimensions( that is why you see guys riding such short keel fin fish’s). You may want to consider going down to a 5’11" or 5’10" for a keel fin set up, and decrease the width below 22" it’s too much for what you want the board to ride like.

I think this about covers it, but I would like to speak to you to go over any other details or questions you might have. Hope this info helps, SK (the guy that shaped your board)

13

How cool is that? An answer from a great shaper IMO…who actually did your board. As was said, ya can’t be too gripe happy if you did not give specific details, or talk to the shaper directly.

How is a leash loop more labor intensive?? I always made(installed/applied the roving) mine before hotcoating…then sanded and shaped it (drill hole ect…) after hotcoating while doing the finish sanding…curious? Have fun…

14

It’s very cool! Thanks Stu! Doing a leash loop is probably about 3 times as much work as a plug. Especially if done right. Sanding,glossing and polishing the loop alone by hand is probably 30 extra minutes altogether.

15

SK, I hope you didn’t take my post as having a gripe with you or the board. I simply wanted to get the second one better to my liking, since there was a mix up on the color anyway. I actually left the shop with the blue board completely happy with the knowledge that an identical board with the correct color was on the way. It wasn’t until I tried to turn it that I called KG and posted the original message.

You are absolutely right about needing to talk to the shaper if you are not totally sure of all of the details, and in my ingnorance I thought that the salesperson would be able to help with the details, but I realize that there is no substitute for the real thing. What I had asked for was a floaty

(hence the 3" thickness) board that would be good for smaller waves. At the time I had no feel for the width and the sales guy was the one who had come up with the 22 1/2 width.

After a rode the board for a day or two I immediately called KG and asked them to hold the replacement order until I talked to you. They replied that you were really busy but took my number for you to call me.

Also, I was never told that the leash loop incurred additional labor or costs, otherwise I would have paid upfront. The sale people can’t promise you something and then simply not include it without teling you due to the cost. As for the loxbox inserts on EPS/epoxy boards I was told specifically that it was not an option due to an issue with the foam melting.

By the way, I rode one of your epoxy keels and really enjoyed it (hence the order), but wanted something a bit thicker.

Thanks again for the reply, SK!

Cheers!

16

I just installed lokbox into eps. No melting. Feels really solid. mike

17

Woops I was just replying to the comment that a cup and loop were the same amount of work. They are not. Don’t know about price.

18

Nah, I never said they were the same amount of work…just questioned the" significant extra cost…and extra work deal" …I have done both , but as a garage shaper I don’t keep track of the exact amount of time involved…butt…cups are definitely easier. I was lazy when I first started and would only do loops…well…after I bought cups I never looked back…lol. I can see it being a little extra work …applying the glass,shaping/glossing it ect…but it can’t/doesn’t cost a heck of a lot more. Its just a little glass/roving ect. Have fun…

19

I spent all yesterday routing lokboxes into 2 lb eps foam and I will tell you lokbox works fine with epoxy as the boards turned out great. Done plenty of epoxy installs now and never had a problem. Such little resin is used in the install I don’t think it’s such a big deal with it overheating. Sammy at RR once told me to be careful with the fast hardener on systems that have a lot of resin, but the fast hardener works great with the system, better than FCS in my experience and the boxes seem stronger than when glassed with poly. I would never use another fin system than lokbox on one of my fish as they definately have more fish fins than any other company! :slight_smile: