Just when I thought I figured it all out :( Glass Jobs

General Discussion
1

Aloha Sway family.

The story is as follows:

I've been using POLY hotcoat over Epoxy lamination  ( EPS core) for a while now .

I get perfect results time after time with only minor screw-ups that are easily fixed with some elbow grease.

usually I spackle the blank with Red-devil's light spackle perior to laminating . the only thing I am not happy with is that

spackled boards tend to be softer.

my last two boards I didn't spackle !!  and were pigmented heavily, single 4oz bottom with cutlap on the deck , then double 4oz deck cut to the seam line of the bottom's

cut lap on the deck , then another 4oz covering the deck , rails and cutlapped on the bottom.

Cooked the boards for a few days at a warm room then scored them with 80grit  and hot coated with Poly resin.

 

 results:

deck and bottom are rock hard!  but , on the bottom there were some sort of pinholes/ small fisheyes.

this happened only on single layered areas meaning that tail patch and rails , where there are 2 layers,  ended up perfect.

 

conclusions:

1)when I don't spackle,  the eps soaks a bit of resin and the board's surface ends up harder than if spackled.

2) holes and defects on the bottom hot coat may have happened because the blank "breaths" or beacause some of the poly actually

    penetrated through the lamination ,  had some sort of reaction with the Eps and gassed , hence the "holes" in the hotcoat occured.

 

FOLLOWING BOARD:

my goals were making the deck hard and somehow avoiding the "holes" on the single layers areas.

decided to spackle only the bottom , resulting in a harder deck  and theoreticaly sealing the bottom and getting the perfect hotcoats

I was used to .

so the board was spackled bottom only.

single 6oz bottom , heavily pigmented - epoxy off course on the bottom with cut lap on the deck.

then single 4oz deck to bottom's cut lap line.

then double 4oz covering deck , rails and cutlapped on the bottom.

 

the begining of the nightmare-

grinding/sanding the double layered cutlap on the bottom and making it flat was a hard task and unfortunatly

I also sanded some of the bottoms single layer making it thin and weak .

then scored the whole board with 80 grit , hotcoated deck first then bottom using poly resin.

deck hotcoat went as perfect as it could get.

The bottom hotcoat has no "pinholes/ fisheyes"  so the spackle did do the job BUT!!!!

and that's a big big big BUT , the whole area near the cutlap , where I sanded by mistake,  is a disaster.

the poly penetrated through and practicaly "ate" the foam leaving a wobbly glass and big gaps under it.

the guy that ordered the board was supposed to have it by the end of the week and I'm so sad cause the board went flawless.

 

so after writing it all here...

I'm wondering how do the pros do it.

how do you achive light , hard and good looking pigmented eps boards .

another question is about free laps.

I free lapped only few times in my life and no matter how I sand the lap flat , the board ends up with a wobbly surface along the lap line.

what's the way to get it right?

 

thanks , sorry for the long read.

I have to make the guy a new board and I have to do it within a week.

whatever you got is mostly welcome.

thanks again.

Lee

 

 

 

 

 

2

that sucks... kinda seems like you've been playing with fire though. is there a reason for the poly hotcoat?

maybe learn to do a epoxy hotcoat/gloss ??? i'm not giving you a hard time just my honest opinion...

as far as sanding free-laps, i'm still trying to figure that one out. my first 3 boards came out horribly.

i'm gonna take my time on my next one and try to sand them perfectly before doing the next layer.

3

I agre with chrisp

do your hot coat with epoxy

you can gloss with poly after that

as far as the lap underneeth ,,, sand lightly then baste a filler coat over the lap

when its mostly kicked do the whole bottom then bolck sand the lap

then go at it with the sander

4

I've been doing epoxy hotcoats and the results were good but not as good as poly.

I hate sanding epoxy as it takes more time, wears out the sanding discs and the finished surface never gets

as good as poly.

the only way I'm going back to epoxy coats is if I'll find a way to import RR kwik kick to Israel.

but on the other hand.. I have no time nor money to ruin another great board so I might

do what you guys said and use epoxy for that board until I figure out want went wrong.

thanks for the input.

Lee

5

hi lee i wondered about the same thing, but not had it happen because i either sealed the board with epoxy first or a cheater coated epoxy after lam and before it fully cured. you can squeegee a thinned coat of epoxy into the weave. maybe about 50 grams per side and thinned with meths.

best to use epoxy fill coats on eps board tho and leave the poly fills for urethane foam

6

hey guys      do the repair with epoxy   make sure its cured  good to go

 

** guys i have boards 4yrs old no sign of any trble with hot coat or finish prblms        **

 

**
**

 

**    bloody e p s   more trble than its worth.
**

7

Yea… epoxy fill coat, block sand the lap line flat, then poly if you want to go that route. But dosen’t RR make a gloss resin now? Anybody try it yet?

Oh… and to stirr the pot some more… you get a harder, better lamination with the epoxy/microballoon slurry than you do with spackle. Don’t mean to go round and round again, but I did a peel test with both, and got better results with the epoxy mix than with Fast 'n Final.

8

dont use poly for hotcoat unless you have at least a 6 oz bottom and the lam is filled with another layer of epoxy after its cured (even then i wouldn’t do it).  i would think that the softness you describe is from the poly getting through your 4 oz bottom and eating a little of the foam. 

to sand the cut lap on the bottom i run a piece of 3/4" 233+ tape around on TOP of the lap line leaving maybe 1/16" of the lap showing where it meets the bottom lam.  then paint the lap/bottom with epoxy and a 2" brush  (pretty much what ken said).  you can do the bottom fill also and do it all in one step.  take a squeege and pour a fill coat on the bottom of the board and squeege the resin out to the lap/tape line then smooth in all in with your 2" brush.  let cure for about 30 min then when you pull the tape the result will be a “seam” along the bottom where the lap meets the flat and if done right should give you plenty of material to sand into and level out without hitting any weave.  I would ditch the poly hotcoat and just start sanding with a higher grit (maybe as low as 80) and/or harder pad.  there are many ways to do it, this is just the way that works best for me.  good luck.

9

FOr free laps, first make sure when you cut the glass that it is even and no weird angles. You want it to flow around the board. Make sure you pull any “hangers” before you pin your laps. Finally make sure you press hard when scraping the extra resin on the eged of the laps. Then if you aren’t good at sanding do a basting coat on the lap edge before you sand.

10

Wow,  thank you all for the solutions :)

Just finished to shape the new board , going to glass it sunday.

I think I'm gonna do it this way , correct me if I'm wrong:

1) epoxy-aerosil-microbaloon slurry on bottom of board only.      should I laminate when still sticky?  or wait till cured? 

2) Laminate the bottom , 4oz with cutlap on the deck side.  bottom side is pigmented.

3) double 4oz deck patch , cut to the bottom's cut lap.    clear.

4) sand the seam of deck patch/inlay and the bottoms cutlap.

5) full 4oz lamination  incl. rails and with a cut lap on the bottom.    clear.

6) sand the lap , and the whole board....  then hotcoat.....with epoxy :) .

 

did I get it right?

 

11

1) epoxy-aerosil-microbaloon slurry on bottom of board only.      should I laminate when still sticky?  or wait till cured? 

I would wait till cured as to not have the cloth stick to the bottom , when you sqeegee the epoxy the cloth may bunch up on you. dont sand the slurry cause the scratches will show through the color

 

3) double 4oz deck patch , cut to the bottom's cut lap.    clear.

I would do a single patch inlay first so the cut lap and patch are at the same level, easyer to sand smooth, then do a 3/4 or 1/2 patch over that and wraped around the rails then a full sheet to cap it all off

 

but thats just me

your way will work

but remember you want the rails strong

 

12

Hey Ken , thanks for the quick response .

"    dont sand the slurry cause the scratches will show through the color " .

I'm  doing a clear slurry ( actually white because of the microballon).

the lamination will be pigmented opaque so you can't really see what's going underneath .  I thought of hiding a body

under the glass :) .

If I won't sand the cured slurry , will the bond still be as good? 

Btw -  should I mix a thin slurry that will run/soak into the gaps between the beads or should it be thick?

thanks

Lee

 

13

The consistency of the slurry should be just thin enough not to hold it’s shape. The “mayo” consistency is too thick, i think. More like honey is better. Don’t sand it. Just give it a wipe with 220 so the cloth won’t fight you. Everything will come out fine.

14

as NJ said

you want to get into the voids so they close up but not to leave a complete layer over the board

15

ok, I think I'm covered.   thank you my friends. pics soon .

Aloha,

Lee

 

16

I have a Q for you lee, do you have any pics of the waves you get in israel? sorry to go off topic but real curious......

cheers

17

Hey moonfish,

Yes I do have pics and I even posted some here on sway's  about two years ago.

here you go, if you want more I can provide..

 

http://www2.swaylocks.com/node/1027387

18

[quote="$1"]

Aloha Sway family.

The story is as follows:

I've been using POLY hotcoat over Epoxy lamination  ( EPS core) for a while now .

 

Reply:

 

You been very, very lucky for a while now. What would make you think that this wouldn't happen? 

1) do not mix EPS with Poly resin....no matter what deal you make with the devil

2) When in question, refer back to #1.

 

19

I think you would be better off sealing the deck with F&F and using an extra layer of 4 oz cloth on the deck for a more solid feel.  Or you could use a 1 oz layer wet out on a table and dropped on the board’s deck and free lapped.  My point is that the EPS soaking up resin on the deck is both heavy and not strong.  Far less resin on a little bit of cloth will be much stronger and lighter.

Unless I’m wrong.

20

wow had no idea what waves were like ova there. cheers dude