kneepaddling a noserider - wide point, thickness, outline

So the first noserider I made 10+ years ago was a total hack, but was the best riding longboard I’ve ever surfed. AND, it kneepaddled like a dream.  All my boards since then have surfed just fine, but knee paddling them has been hit and miss.  For instance, this latest 9’8" I made surfs awesome, but I can barely knee paddle it without scooting up on the board, pretty much way ahead of center, and then I just plow water…So I’m wondering what I can do on this next board to make it a smooth knee paddler. Without getting into too much detail, suffice to say it will be along the lines(measurement wise) of a Pearson Arrow CJ Nelson model. Built for noseriding.  I would think that the major factor would be the thickness, and the thickest part of the board should be pretty much exactly where your body mass would be while knee paddling, no?  Any insight from you guys would be much appreciated.  Thanks.

Hi tenover -

I think I remember that first board and it wasn’t a hack.

The best knee paddlers I’ve had were thick railed, wide tailed boards with lots of volume throughout.  I’ve seen skinny little kids knee paddling much leaner boards but depending on your weight and skill, more volume is better in my opinion.

I’d say that more important than having the volume directly under you, having a wide tail, wide nose, and full rails carried to the ends would serve the same function.  Think tailblock about the radius of a .50 piece(?)

My best riding longboards weren’t necessarily the best knee paddlers.  My best knee paddlers (old school longboards) had wider and thicker dimensions overall.

I have one now that is over 11’ with 4" thickness and relatively pointy ends (Phil Edwards/Skip Frye glider style) and tapered rails that doesn’t knee paddle that well.  Other boards I have, that are shorter, knee paddle better with wider dimensions, much thicker (50/50) rails and more volume overall.  The extra width and thickness out on the edges and at the ends seem to help maintain stability.  In comparison, the board with a thick wide center, pointy ends, and thin rails is much more tippy.

 

 

After adequate volume, the next most important dimension is width, width, width.  Thick or thin rails do little to help.  Rounded rails and bottom detract from stability.  Length gives glide, the longer the better.  I am 200 lbs and have a 10’8" noserider, 23.5" wide, 3 1/2 inch thick.  This board kneepadles and noserides like a dream.  Noseriding is affected by many factors.  Usually wide tail , 3 1/2 to 4" gradual tail kick.  Fairly flat forward with slight nose kick 4-5 inches.  Lots of people like pivot fins but I find that a good sized raked fin with moderate tip area works just as well and still allows the board to turn.  Concaves in the nose are an open question, but it seems like all the builders feel you have to have them.  I disagree.  Concaves can often create too much drag especially when paddling to catch waves.  Finally, weight of the board.  Another volatile topic.  Let me just say that I built a super high tech noserider with eps and carbon glass that weighed 13 lbs and it nose rided  great, turned great, and didn’t stretch out my arm on the long walks to the break.  Also, it doesn’t hurt so much when you get hit.  Anyway, that’s my 2 cents, hope it helps.

 

I am 150 lbs and my noserider is an 8’0". It kneepaddles effortlessly. I agree about width. Width equals stability. When you kneepaddle your center of gravity is higher off the board and that can cause instability with a narrow board. As far as glide goes when paddling, rocker and volume make a difference. Volume being most important.

By 1960s longboard standards, a 10’8" is huge for a guy who only weighs 200 lbs. 10’ to 10’2" was more like it, back then.

 

Tenover, what is the biggest difference between the board that kneepaddled well and the one(s) that don’t?

Figuring out which elements are most dissimilar should put you on the right track. Is the issue one of stability, or glide? If it’s glide, then floatation is the key element. Length or volume increase will help.

My aforementioned 8’0 has lots of volume, both in thickness and width.

why do you ride an 8’ er, is 9’ too long for you? Upfront, I just have no clue about long board sizing… I tried a nine six, and I tell you! That thing was near perfect for me! What’s the scoop?!

I find tail width helps the back from sinking which makes it easier to knee paddle. Fuller rails makes it easier too like john said.

 

 

Because I can. I own a 9’4 Eberly noserider and it doesn’t turn like my 8 footer. That’s for sure. The 8-0 has the perfect combination of float and maneuverability.  During the first five years of my surfing, the only boards I had were over 9’. Then, in 1968 these new things came along that were under 9’. So much better.

Believe it or not, many guys rode boards that were under 9’ back in the Sixties and even the 50s.

Here’s a scan from a 1962 Hobie ad. The guy in the pic is an adult. Note the description of his board.

 

its all about balance.

 

All of most of the above with one more thing. Deck kick in the tail. Too much and the tail starts to sink and create drag, good for noseriding, for some, bad for paddling especially knee paddling.

Hi,  I weight 185 pounds and the knee paddler board that I have has the following dimensions:  10’2 x 19 1/2" x  24"x 3 3/4" x 16 1/2.  Made with Teccel foam (10’4"), 2 x 7.5oz volan on top +  6oz knee patch and 1x7.5oz on the bottom.   Pretty good to knee paddling, but I  have some issues carrying it to  the beach for long distances due to its weight and width. I have other longboards 9’10" with  23 3/4 and 24" and thickness’ around 3 1/2  width but both are not very good to knee paddling.  One has a 16" and the other one has 13 1/2" on the tail, good noseriders with different qualities each one.   Anyway, why do you need a knee paddler longboard?  Besides looking cool on the water paddling in that position, I don’t  consider this characteristic to be very useful…

 

Knee paddling has nothing to do with “looking cool”. If you think that’s the main reason people do it, then you probably don’t understand why it’s done in the first place.

I will try to explain this for your benefit.

Knee paddling offers these advantages

You use different muscles than you do when prone. This allows for a longer session, since your arms won’t tire as quickly.

You can see a little better when paddling out. This allows you to spot a set sooner, and just makes for a nicer view.

In colder water less of your body is getting wet. Back when wetsuits were not common, guys surfed Santa Cruz year round and they knee paddled a lot in order to stay warmer.

You claim you can knee paddle one of your boards. Can you catch waves by knee paddling? If not, you should work on your technique. Knee paddling to catch a wave also has advantages. But those are top secret and I’m not sharing them.

I agree with you SammyA, after I posted my comment I made some research regarding to knee paddling and the tired arms/shoulders is an issue.  Luckly for me, I have been  swimming 2 to 3 km on a daily basis from the last 5 years so muscles are not a issue for me.  Anyway, in my humble opinion,  I consider that having a knee paddler longboard in my quiver is a mistake since I consider this board too stiff  on the water and the weight of the board is too much making it a little bit dangerous.  As a matter of fact, this year I borrowed this board to a friend of my and in a tinny wave the board went into his jaw, which was fracturated in two different places.   According to the doctor of the emergency room that he attented after the accident, considering the damage the board cause in this jaw,  if the board had hit his skull near the eyes he would  have had a cranial traumatism, get uncounsious and/or drowned. 

Keep on surfing and good waves for all!

 

I’ve never owned a board I could knee paddle.  The ones I’ve tried that I could knee paddle were freaking boats.  10’+.     205 pounds and top heavy.  ;^)   A board big enough for me to knee paddle would be so much longer than what I like that it would take another cross step or two to get to the nose.  That may be practical at Malibu but not at an east coast beach break.  I like my longboards 9’2 to 9’6.

 

They are an “issue” for anyone. Stay in the water long enough and your muscles become fatigued. Switch muscle groups for varied paddling techniques and the chance of fatigue lessens. I swim a bit, but my go to guy is my older brother when to comes to swimming topics. He trains a woman who competes on the US Olympic team and he’s a world class distance swimmer, himself. He’s medalled in the World Master’s Games four times, and finished in the top 50 in the Alcatraz swim when he was 50. He took first in his age group for the 1600 meters in the last US Master’s event held in Florida.he’s 65, now.

 

That has more to do with the size of the board, rather than whether it knee paddles well, or not. As I have said many times, my noserider is 8’ and I can knee paddle it. Any bogger board will cause more damage/injury if it hits you right. Simple physics.

Your reasoning reminds me of a woman I know who got rid of a board because it kept hitting her in the head. It had nothing to do with the board, and everything to do with her lack of skill.

 

I just like to switch between prone  and knee paddling during a session.  I tend to paddle around a lot, and like someone said, it just feels good to switch it up and use different muscles.  Paddling into waves on your knees is fun, and you can really fine tune the glide into the wave with the tiniest movements…  

9’2-9’6 is a bit small for a guy who weighs 205, if you want to go by traditional longboard standards. But, I’d bet you could build something in that range which would float well enough to knee paddle. That is, if you wanted that capability.

I also think that those of us who grew up and learned when knee paddling was very common find it easier to do on boards that are bit “undersized”. Like the old cliche about riding a bicycle. Muscle memory is a factor.

 

Yes. An old trick I picked up from a friend, when I was a kid,  was a thing he did that involves beginning your turn as you get to your feet. Hard to describe in words, but it was a cool and unusual move that I liked and copied to this day.

I know “the move” and do it all the time as well.  Smmoooooooooth.