Leash Drag

General Discussion
41

I think everyone here has stated their case / viewpoint pretty clearly and effectively.  Stating it louder isn't going to win any more converts.  Lots of competent people here with the qualifications to back up their argument. 

There are obviously differences in perspective and opinion.  That's OK.

I have friends and people I respect / admire on both sides of this issue, and I'm not gonna state my opinion, because I'm underqualified in present company.

But it seems that without fail, once we start taking it personal or injecting politics into a thread on surfing / surfboards, it takes off down that slippery slope.  So the question to ask ourselves is, Do we really want to take it there? 

Just a reminder. 

Carry on.

42

[quote="$1"]

You don't get it and you probley never will.

Just go back and reread Sharkcountry's post for a start.

[/quote]

Good advice to all participants in this discussion.   Especially if you disagree with Sharkcountry's original premise.

43

Bill,

My comments are in equal measure responses to the earlier comments.  The statement that it is the paddlers fault if I run you over, because my wave was soooo good.  I’m trying to keep it in perspective.  No wave is worth injuring or worse anyone, just because they wern’t smart enough to know what to do in a situation.  I’ve been run over.  It sucks!

And running a guy down in the parking lot, and threatening violence on someone.  I’ve never met Herb, and on sways he seems like a nice enough guy.  But I’m trying to get people thinking.  Fights in parking lots can turn out with unexpected results.  And to have one of our “elder statesmen” retelling the story with gusto is concerning.  I grew up in a localized spot, where violence was common, and it sickens me.

And my last post on this matter is to Shark Country and those who think I don’t get his point.  If I was there, I probably would have gone leashless too.  I’ve done it lots of times, and nothing focuses your surfing like knowing if you fall, you are swimming, or worse, buying a new board.  But those times are for special days, when you know that everybody in the water has the experience to handle it.  It sounds like that was what Shark Country was doing.  There are just as many beginners reading this forum, and we shouldn’t be putting ideas in their heads about violence, and careless disregard for the safety of others.

I’m done.  I’ve made my thoughts clear.  I hope we are all good.

44

[quote="$1"]   I hope we are all good. [/quote]

Yes, I think so.     Lots of heat generated by the topic, eh?

45

 

Sharkcounty and Bill are spot-on.  

If you can’t swim a spot, you shouldn’t surf it.

If you’re in moving water, you need to pay attention to everything that’s going on around you, that includes surfers, hot girlfriends, little kids.

If you’ve got inexperienced hot girldfriends (not saying some hot girls can’t surf circles around most guys) or little kids in the water, pay attention along with them.  Teach them to pay attention for themselves.  Also teach them not to play mindlessly in a surf zone.  The ocean is much different than a swimming pool.  There are many other factors than just the water.  Throw in waves, currents, rocks, surfers and boards, stingrays, urchins, broken bottles and trash, jellyfish…  Each individual is ultimately responsible for their own safety.  There are no victims, just volunteers.

Leashes weren’t invented as safety devices.  They were for convenience.  It amazes me that so many newbie surfers (anyone that started after the mid-70s) think otherwise.  Pre-leashes the majority of surfers were much better.  If you lost your board, you had some time to think about what went wrong while swimming after it.  You also got a better idea of the nuances of your spot, and knew how to swim.  Since no one else used leashes, you also knew to pay attention whenever water was moving around.  The kickout was as important as the rest of the wave.  Stylishly completing a ride while having your board under your control was the norm.  

Watching surfers just bail at the end of their rides tweaks me.  Leashes are 100% to blame.  I wear one when the surf is more critical, it’s super crowded, or I don’t want my board on the rocks, but I don’t ever consider it a “safety device”.  I don’t depend on it to keep control of my board.  It just prevents having to swim if I f**k up.  I’ve been caught in the impact zone in massive surf where I’ve taken my leash off and bailed my board just so we woudn’t be attached.  It seemed like a better option to not have a board to bonk into or a leash to get tangled with in that situation.  I knew if I didn’t get knocked out I’d make it back up again… because I know how to swim, and have had experience in those conditions.  

A 6’ kook with an 8’ leash and a 9’ board can still take people out in a 46’ radius.  A guy who knows how to surf and doesn’t wear a leash is much safer to be around.  I’ve been hit by more kooks wearing leashes than by loose boards.  

 

 

46

But to get back to the point at the origin of this thread - I don’t really notice drag from a leash… other than it being a drag to get my feet tangled in mine :wink:

 

47

So,is it a drag to wear a leash?

Sharfcountry,you said it best.

Everybody will lose their board at some point,

If your board will NOT make it to the sandy beach where little kids and people are playing,only surfers in the area,then it’s up to you to wear one or not.

Guys who make a comment like “oh,you’re wearing a leash!” or"oh,you’re not wearing a leash" will eat their words sooner or later.

Everybody in the ocean is taking a risk.Don’t want to get hurt,stay out of the ocean,and don’t ever surf.

You don’t want to injure someone,you won’t take a chance just to make the wave,but some guys do,but it’s only a fricking wave.

You stay inside on your board in surfers’s way,as a lot of chicks ,and guys on too short a board do, you’ll get run over eventually,and then you’ll bitch about it.

The F#@% tourists with their rental SUP and SUP newbies,all with leashes,still no clue,coming in among the kids,no aloha for those idiots!

The punks staying in your way so you won’t be able to catch the wave,then they can go,run those bastards over.They get out of the way after.

You feel like the leash is dragging,you can pick it up if on a longboard,I do it sometimes,feels like it helps,but probably not that much.

I paddle my oc-1 on a downwinder,1/2 mile to a mile out,I wear a leash.

48

Let us all be friends and enjoy the ocean in peace, let us all leave our boards at home and at least for a day let us all surf a mat… Skimming over water creates the least drag… Getting run over with a mat doesn’t hurt at all! Kava, the leash on the offshore paddle board = good idea jejeje!

49

this old dog loves to leash up!!!

 

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50

Leash or no leash …  my comment is not required. 

Drive a car, operate a motorcycle or ride a bike or skateboard.  If you could have avoided them, pedestrians/individuals have right of way.

Intentionally injuring, crippling or maiming is assault.  Negligence is punishable as well.

51

OK.  Now back to my slightly of topic rant about SURF SCHOOLS.  It’s obvious to me that an experienced surfer would be aware of a loose board and know which way to move to avoid it.  Also, Herb’s shoulder bouy was obviously not clued in about what was going on at that break.

 

I think it’s time to establish a Swaylock’s Surf School Accreditation program.  Like the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval.  Really.  The guy who said you don’t even need to know how to swim would fail…big time.  

52

Just to follow up on some statments made by some folks here about those surfers who cant swim , I regularly surf with guys that dont wear a leash when the waves are small but do when it gets some size , they are pretty good surfers but cant swim worth a damm . About three years ago the group of guys and gals that I surf with got together and decided to train for the Honolulu triathalon,  it was surprising just how shitty we all were at swimming any distance , sure we could all swim a few yards but as we found out none of us could swim from the shore out to the take off point we surf especially through the surf . So my point is     can you ?     Can you really swim any distance ?   Could you swim to a friend in trouble ?  I suspect if you tried it you may be shocked .        We all completed the triathalon and we all became stronger paddlers .

53

agree with sharkcountry. where i surf are mostly points- i don’t wear a leash. once in a while i’ll lose my board and have to swim-that’s part of the fun for me. it can be a long swim into shore., which means my board has had a long ride into shore. people inside or along the shoreline -if they are aware at all- have plenty of time and space to get the fuck out of the way of a loose board. perhaps not a luxury afforded at a beach break, but still people out in the water or near shore are responsible for their own safety. if they don’t have the skill or ability to be aware of what is going on around them they should go where surfboards aren’t.

as for leash drag, wear a thin leash. i know proneman and he rarely loses his board, and if he does, he has the chops to maintain control of it unless something as he described happened.thus, a thin diameter leash should do the trick.

54

I just surfed 2 days, 3 hours one day 4 hours yesterday without a leash. Zero minutes swim time. I know how to be conservative and not lose my board. I straighten out when it closes out. I was not the only one without a leash, maybe a third of those surfing were with out a leash.

One guy lost his board and 2 people went in for it. I was paddling back out and started paddling for it, but the others got to it first.

Where I surfed the board will never reach the shore, but it could reach some rocks or very shallow water and there are lots of sea urchins.

I have been run over by surfers still on their board, I have been hit by loose boards, I almost lost an eye from a board that was attached to a leash. I had to be airlifted from the northshore and couldn’t see through that eye for over a month. I couldn’t surf for 6 months. When I saw the person who owned the board about a year or so later I did not get angry. 

I don’t blame the loose boards or the owners for getting hit, but I have gotten very close to fighting after being run over by some prick. In the end it wouldn’t change anything or what happened.

I was out surfing on a maxed out day. I was paddling out behind former world champion Lynn Boyer and another person when we got caught inside a close out set. They both bailed their boards so I had no choice but to do the same. Well my leash broke and I ended up swimming for 40 minutes, being dragged back out in the rip over and over. If I didn’t have a leash I would never have bailed my board, I don’t think they would have either. 

I visited California in 1980 and stayed at Hunington Beach. We surfed there one day, and I’ll will always remember the shoreline covered with people with their backs to the the ocean. In Hawaii we are taught to never ever go down to the water and turn your back to the ocean. There are so many things that can hurt or kill you when you do that, and they are not loose surfboards.

55

e sharkcountry, reading you last comment,about your eye,I had/still have choke problems with my eyes from retinal detachments.Paranoid about my eyes now,safety wise.Always surf witm my sunglasses,for sun protection and impact protection .just a thought.I wear Kurtis http://www.kurtisusa.com/surfgoggles.html   Aloha

56

 

[quote="$1"]

it was surprising just how shitty we all were at swimming any distance , sure we could all swim a few yards but as we found out none of us could swim from the shore out to the take off point we surf especially through the surf . So my point is     can you ?     Can you really swim any distance ?   Could you swim to a friend in trouble ?  I suspect if you tried it you may be shocked .        

[/quote]

As I get older and fatter, I don't swim nearly as fast as I used to, but yes, I can swim.  Even though I'm not as quick anymore, I know I can survive in the water for hours (days probably), and I can handle getting pummeled in the impact zone.  It's not about overpowering the ocean, because you can't.  It's about being able to tune into the conditions around you and finesse your way into safety.  When I was in my prime (lifeguard at Huntington Beach) I could swim an ocean mile in under 12 minutes, hold my breath for five minutes, and do five laps underwater at an Olympic sized pool.  You don't have to be at that level, but if you can't swim where you're surfing, you really shouldn't be there.  

 

 

Lynn Boyer freaking rips.  Not only one of the best girls I’ve seen in the water, but one of the best surfers period.  She’s a bit older than me.  I was out with her in Baja years ago, and that experience is still etched in my memory.  She was pretty hot too… which didn’t hurt my superhero image of her :wink:

 

 

[quote="$1"]

In Hawaii we are taught to never ever go down to the water and turn your back to the ocean. There are so many things that can hurt or kill you when you do that, and they are not loose surfboards.

[/quote]

No one should play in the ocean without that mindset.  Here in the SF bay area, people drown every year because they're not paying attention and don't have the skills to stay out of trouble or get out of it when they do.  These tragedies don't happen from loose boards, they happen because people aren't paying attention to what's happening around them.  The beach is a safe place to play if you understand the dynamics.  It can easily kill you if you don't.  

 

 

 

57

[quote="$1"]

[quote="$1"]

Come on Mark, ''fair game'',  ''run them down'' ?

[/quote]

Bill,

My comments are in equal measure responses to the earlier comments.  The statement that it is the paddlers fault if I run you over, because my wave was soooo good.  I'm trying to keep it in perspective.  No wave is worth injuring or worse anyone, just because they wern't smart enough to know what to do in a situation.  I've been run over.  It sucks!

And running a guy down in the parking lot, and threatening violence on someone.  I've never met Herb, and on sways he seems like a nice enough guy.  But I'm trying to get people thinking.  Fights in parking lots can turn out with unexpected results.  And to have one of our "elder statesmen" retelling the story with gusto is concerning.  I grew up in a localized spot, where violence was common, and it sickens me.

And my last post on this matter is to Shark Country and those who think I don't get his point.  If I was there, I probably would have gone leashless too.  I've done it lots of times, and nothing focuses your surfing like knowing if you fall, you are swimming, or worse, buying a new board.  But those times are for special days, when you know that everybody in the water has the experience to handle it.  It sounds like that was what Shark Country was doing.  There are just as many beginners reading this forum, and we shouldn't be putting ideas in their heads about violence, and careless disregard for the safety of others.

I'm done.  I've made my thoughts clear.  I hope we are all good.

[/quote] mark,

he was luckly i didn't catch him, for what he was spouting off at me...........Everyone.........i mean everyone in the water that day said i had the right to end his exsistence.

btw............i'm all of 5-8 and 135lbs..........and stand dead eye to eye with gerry lopez...........and we are both build as if we were twin brothers.

the guy in my post like most of the guys that cause problems with me in the water.............was approx.6-1 ,200lbs .........and about 20+ younger............

basically,he thought he was going to catch the wave anywhere he wanted and to hell with anyone else.

in other words a bully...............i hate bullies.............i usually make them vanish.

thats my commentment to life.

you ask anyone here or else where,,,,,...............i'm usually a very quiet,passive,kind,generious...........man..........also a 30 year veteran california nurse.

i seen the bottoms of hell.................and i have comforted the most sick,forgotten humans on this planet..............most humans like you, i'm sure............have no idea what it's like to care for the dying..............most go crazy from trying................a passive approach is my moto..............but if you threaten me to a point where i don't want to hear it anymore..........i also possess the skills and ability to cancel anyone's train ride................being a nurse is a very tough career...............but it has made me a more efficient killer.......................and knowing this..............i keep my head bowed.........and my thoughts hummbled.

now go get some waves and catch one for this old tired nurse.

herb

58

One thing people need to realize is that leashes break, or the little piece of cord you connect the leash to the board will break or come loose and your leash will come off the board. I’ve had these problems at least a half dozen times. After getting my board it’s no leash for the rest of the day, or go home and miss out on some good waves. You can’t rely on the leash. If you do, you may end up drowning. 

Almost all of the guys who don’t use leashes are in really good shape. I surf with a bunch who are in their 60’s and still in great shape. They also surf really well, not just stand there and cruise along, but making a lot of turns and keeping the board right in the curl.

I think we are lucky here in Hawaii. A lot of the surf breaks are further out and the boards don’t go all the way in to the beach. The only people who are in danger of loose boards are other surfers. The real danger is from the beginners who aren’t ready to be where they are. The only reason they are there is because they don’t pay the price of losing their board. When I used to take my kids out, I’d spend all my time trying to keep them in safe water. Many times it took all of my physical and mental strength to keep them safe. I’d be drained after taking 2 kids out surfing one at a time. 2 at one time was too hard.

59

Hard to see super white shortboards in the white water. It’s one of the reasons I like color on my boards.

60

 

 

Kendall, I'm OK with you holding your breath for five minutes, (I did that too) but five underwater laps in an Olympic size pool pisses me off!

I only did four lengths underwater!!!    How dare you do more than me.     Actually I'm impressed.   Truely.    I know what that last lap probably took out of you.

As the expression goes ''GEEV' EM !