linseed vs epoxy for the environment

I’ve been reading a few articles in various mags and online threads/blogs where guys are using linseed oil to seal paulownia timber boards as being more environmentally friendly.

The thing i question is, the linseed will leach out into the water right?

with the oil you have to reapply and reapply to keep the timber sealed hence leaching oil into the sea on every occasion?

The reefs we surf on surely wouldn’t enjoy getting covered in a slick of oil, especially seeing as timber boards are making a comeback and people are looking to ‘greener’ alternatives.

In my opinion a one-off application (maybe a few coats) of epoxy which wouldn’t leach out into the ocean would be a better alternative than the linseed.

anyone care to share their thoughts…

it may be tung that I’m thinking of, but one of the oil finishes actually hardens and dries in the grain

so it doesn’t need to be reapplied.

Howzit sparrow, Like aloaf said tung oil dries hard and won’t leach out. We use a 50/50 mix of minwax tung oil and minwax quick drying polyurethane that is even better than straight tung oil. Apply it let it set for a few minutes and wipe off, do 2 or 3 coats and you’re on your way.Aloha,Kokua

No worries, that sounds like an option. cheers for the replies.

Linseed oil is used to slow down drying time of oil based paints, not a sealer for wood projects.

My grandfather told me of painting the outhouse with paint thinned with linseed oil the day before halloween, those damn kids would tip over the out house and this was a way to find the culprits, undried paint on them and their clothes.

I lived with my grandparents until I was 6 years old in Ohio on their farm. We run all these threads here on being green, my grandpa was a “junkman”, among other things, we would cruise the alleys of Columbus, collecting rags, metal, cardboard. He would go to a concreted company and get pre-stressed columns that were F-ed up and let me hammer all of the concrete off them for the rebar. I guess he was a recycler.

My grandma, grew almost everything we ate, 200 acres of corn, beans, squash, tomatoes, fruit trees and when it came to salads, she would go into the yard and come in with dandelion and mustard greens.

Everything she grew got “putup” for the winter, mason jars lining the basement.

In the fall, they would fill the galvinized tub with hog fat and wood ash and build a wood fire under it, when it had cooked off all of the water, what was left behind was “soft soap”

It was a trip to see a chicken get it’s head cut off and keep running around the yard headless.

Daisy the pig thought it was a dog, would follow you everywhere, even to the slaughter house, poor Daisy.

There was a pump at the kitchen sink for water in the house and a pump in the back yard too, I got washed each night with a “wash rag” and once a week my mother and grandma would fill the galvinized tub with water in front of the coal stove and my brother, sister and I would get our baths. That cast iron stove, had an oven, water heater tank and my grandma was the best cook one could imagine.

All this is part of why I am sort of the Mr. Wizard that I am today, learn to use what you have at hand and make do with less

In the UK there is Boiled Linseed Oil and Raw linseed Oil.

The Boiled kind I remember using in Fine Art oil paintings for making ( with ground pigments) paint and altering the consistency of the paint. The raw one would prevent the oil paints from hardening.

Mark

Hi. linseed oil comes in two forms , raw, and boiled . Linseed is pressed from flax seed. Raw linseed takes almost forever to dry. Boiled linseed oil is not boiled but has matallic driers added to speed up drieing. I figure in hawaii it takes at least two weeks to cure. Linseed oils are mildew food. Mildew loves linseed oil and combine that with water and you have trouble and yes linseed oil will leach out not only that it water spots, better not to use it. Tung oil is pressed from nuts of the Tung tree in china, southeast asia. Yes it is very water resistent and will dry hard but is difficult to work with and takes longer to cure than boiled linseed oil. As for Minwax tung oil finish like most other tung oil finishes there is no tung oil in them at all. Minwax tung oil is a linseed ,mineral spirit , varnish mix and is classed as a oil varnish mix. Kokua by adding Polyurethane you are just making a oil varnish mix that has a higher percentage of varnish. But yes it is much better than straight tung oil. The only tung oil finish that I know of ( I am sure there are a couple others) is Mclloskey tung oil finish. Yes you can buy 100% tung oil but to use it you have to thin it with mineral spirits to get it to penetrate and so it will cure faster. There is no good reason to use linseed oil, or tung oil as a wood (timber) surfboard finish. Wood_Ogre

thanks guys, just the answers i’ve been looking for.

so in your opinions - would epoxy be ‘better environmentally’ to seal your wooden surfboard?

Howzit Wood_Ogre, Thanks for the info on minwax tung oil. I do know that using tung oil for big projects can be a headache and it doesn't work very well on some exotic wood, Milo is one. The mix we use is some what more forgiving when it comes to the time factor. One thing is with our mix we let it cure for about 24hrs before doing another coat and no problems. Aloha,Kokua

even if linseed oil did leech into the ocean, the epoxy still wouldnt be “better environmentally”. Its a highly refined petrochemical with toxic chemical additives and it still ends up in the environment eventually when your surfboard ends up in landfill or somewhere else where it would not biodegrade, whereas linseed oil would.

it would be interesting to hear if anyone actually KNOWS if linseed oil would leech into the ocean from a surfboard and if it wold have any negative impact.

there are lots of factors to consider when valueing products on their “green” benefits.

This is a question that I am interested in as well, but from a different perspective. I am making Alaia boards from wood that I can get as cheap as possible in Socal (free is always best). This includes poplar and pine, which soak up water like crazy. I am trying to find a way to avoid glassing these cheap wood alaias, both for environmental and board flex reasons. I have heard of all kinds of funky sealing combinations, including Tom Wegener’s linseed oil, gum turpentine and bees wax combo used on his Alaias. I have heard of using Tung oil, spar varnish and West Systems epoxy. Does anyone know how I can keep the ocean from ruining my porous wood alaias.

kokua The finish as you describe it dose work well and 24 hrs is about right to recoat. I have done exactly that. Then after about 6 months go over the finish again one more time, really looks good. As for Milo I like to use just mineral oil or Watco danish oil cut with turps buffed out and then waxed with bees wax turps at about 50-50. because Milo has such a fine texture your oil needs to be very thin to soak in, thats why Bob Hamada uses kakui nut oil on his calabashes. Aloha Wood_Ogre

Quote:

there are lots of factors to consider when valueing products on their “green” benefits.

True that!

The other factor is lifespan

Sure, using environmentally friendly materials is the goal

But what if the product then doesn’t last as long?

A board encased in fibreglass is gunna stay out of the landfill longer than bare wood.

I wish there were natural finishes that boasted equivalent or superior longevity - I’m sure there are and I would love to know more about them!

At the moment i’m working on the formula of “durability = environmentally friendly”

lifespan is relevant when considering products that will ultimately become waste.

the ultimate goal for me is to create products that are not only sustainable but don’t create any waste.

a wooden board without fibreglass and coated in a natural oil will not be considered waste if it can biodegrade and return nutrients to the earth. thats assuming there are no petro glues being used. there are natural and plant based glues available now although they are hard to find.

its just like the shoes that i wear. they are made by SIMPLE and are completely biodegradable. When im done i throw them in the veggie garden compost. but like you say, they don’t last as long as shoes made with more surable petro and synthetic materials.

Quote:

lifespan is relevant when considering products that will ultimately become waste.

the ultimate goal for me is to create products that are not only sustainable but don’t create any waste.

a wooden board without fibreglass and coated in a natural oil will not be considered waste if it can biodegrade and return nutrients to the earth. thats assuming there are no petro glues being used. there are natural and plant based glues available now although they are hard to find.

its just like the shoes that i wear. they are made by SIMPLE and are completely biodegradable. When im done i throw them in the veggie garden compost. but like you say, they don’t last as long as shoes made with more surable petro and synthetic materials.

both KK and surfinggreen have very valid points, but does this mean you need to consume ‘more’ ie pairs of shoes/oiled boards for them to be sustainable? more energy would be required to build more of everything, it doesn’t make much sense to me unless it was green energy that was being used i suppose.

It definitely is a difficult question but one i find very interesting.

It’s a really hard one to weigh up…

I completely agree with Surfinggreen, and am working towards the same goal myself.

I wish it was easy… it’s hard to know what is right and what is wrong

I’m yet to find out the realistic lifespan of one of my boards (the properly made ones, not the experiments)

So i’m not sure what the balance is.

What if they last a lifetime?

You can already re-use parts of them, and recycle/biodegrade the rest, which is a pretty good start.

Cut the skins off and use them on another board.

A true bio-resin that is an equivalent to epoxy would be a dream come true

You’re giving us only two options, oil or resin. A third option is oil mixed with resin, also known as varnish. I think varnish is a good middle ground choice when it comes to durability. And as I mentioned in a similar thread…varnish is something that’s already waiting to be used up in someone’s garage. You just have to find the right garage.

As far as oil getting into the reef ecosystem…I think the beach girls coated in coconut butter are a bigger problem. If you are patient, and you let your linseed oil polymerize properly, then you won’t dissolve the oil off the board (even if you use paint thinner.) Linseed oil will dry. Coconut oil will not. Any polymerized linseed oil that abrades from your board, or minute bits degraded by UV light, will most likely be fish food…or plankton food before too long.

one of the reasons i asked, was because i had read somewhere that sunscreen has had a dramatic effect on ocean environments (your comment re coconut oils just reminded me).

So i was curious, that with the wood boards becoming more popular oils being leeched may be a problem, but as everyone has suggested here and also in other threads that if the oil is cured properly then it may not have a detrimental effect on our beloved surf breaks.

I’m wondering when comparing the ‘green’ qualities of the above materials you should consider the damaging effects of manufacture and transport of the products more than worrying about oils leaching into the ocean from relatively few wood boards. There’s a LOT of dilution in that body of water. How much energy does each product take to produce and deliver to market as well as durability of the finished board? Mike