Newer to the forum and have only made wooden boards to date, but I have an itch and I want to try shaping a longboard from my own design. I have researched for weeks in trying to figure out what I want/think is best and I think I have it narrowed down - all but rocker.
So right now looking at making a board for the east coast (outer banks) that will perform is poor surf conditions which typically means swells. Because of this it seems best to pursue a design with the WP slightly aft of center in catching those swells. The design I currently have places the WP about 5 inches aft of center on a 9’4" board and is 23.15". I am not looking for a nose rider specifically and have the nose slightly more narrow than your typical nose rider.
Now where I am really struggling is rocker. I don’t understand the benefits in a continuous rocker vs. flat rocker or where rocker points should terminate. Also rocker amounts. Being that I am not looking for a nose rider specifically I don’t think I need a significant amount of tail rocker. The draft I have now puts the nose rocker around 3.75" and tail rocker at 2.85". Does that seem about right for my conditions/planned use? Also, where should I plan for those rockers to terminate into the flat section if I decide flat is best over continuous curve.
I am definately a beginner surfer - only been 3 times. I actually started by building a wooden board for fun and then realized I had to take it out to see if it worked and then was hooked. So I am not looking for a high performance board. Really looking to build an easy going board that will help me catch waves and learn.
Watch this. Look at my pictures of the tail rocker I posted on Beginner Board Build, take note of the tail rocker shown against the cinder block wall - you can reverse engineer it if you’re clever.
Generally, try to go where others have gone before with your shaping - there is a reason we’ve all come to the same genearal conclusions - they work. Small departures are Ok, to tune a shape to local conditions, but big experiments usually fail. Wherever you can, get dimensions off of boards that work good. Develop a database and develop your shaper’s eye to those forms.
@scottJarrat - Thanks a lot for taking the time to explain that. I appreciate the talk of water’s reaction to a shape and its laminar flow. What doesn’t make sense to me is the 6.9% and 2.7% results. For a 112 inch board that yield’s a 7.7" NR and 3" TR. Early on you mentioned that most boards pearl due to not enough tail rocker mistakenly corrected by adding more NR.
I agree with your point on not re-inventing the wheel and I am definately trying to find what does work so as to not fail. I haven’t seen many boards with that significant of a nose rocker on east coast long boards which is why I am asking for the clarification to the above values.
In regards to rocker still I do not understand where the flat part should generally fall. Using board CAD they have a very slow arcing TR where the flat portion is from slightly forward of center for around 2 feet before beginning the NR. Is this generally right and how does pulling that flat section further rearward affect a board’s ride?
As your drawing indicates most of the waves I will surf will be far less curled and more swell like. So for my tail to fit into that sloping arc then less rocker is in order… no?
That 6.9%/2.7% is for shortboards and guns riding extremely hollow waves - the kind of waves few surfers will ever see much less ever have the skill to ride. I was lucky and had access to such a wave for about a decade. However***
Though my rocker has lots of nose rocker, it is because I’m mathematically bending the spline to pull on, and actually make the rocker straighter up until the last bit when it flips up. Lately I’ve been doing a number of retro looking boards that have less pointy noses, and that cuts off that part of the rocker. When doing so, it looks pretty flat.
I reduced the 6.9/2.7 rocker 15% throughout for Rincon, and then did an in-between 7.5% reduction as an all-rounder. It has lots of curve on the ends, not so much in the middle. For a 9’ performance longboard, I made a 10’ 6" version of the 6.9/2.7 and cut off 1’ 6" of the nose to yield a 9’ rocker template. ***That has worked out very well. I used a shortboard template enlarged to 10’ 6" x 22 1/4" and cut off 1’ 6" from that nose as well. Rounded that out to make what looked like a longboard nose, and I’ve had very good luck with it. As such, the straightest part of my setup is a little bit behind the wide point. On a shortboard, the straightest part of my rocker falls a little behind the wide point - which is a little behind the mid point - so it falls a wee bit behind the front foot. At speed, it results in a minimum entry angle of the planing surface.
As for ‘what is generally right,’ we all have our ideas as to what works best. Be patient with yourself, in time it’ll all come to you.
When riding a 40’ wave on a 10’ board, the wave height is 4x the board length, or the board length is 1/4 the wave height. When riding a 1’ wave on a 9’ board, the board length is 9x the wave height. Something to keep in the back of your mind is that longer boards in small waves may need fair bit of rocker to fit the small and tight curl. *** I’ve found my tuberider rocker works well on longboard alternative shortboard mushriders. My 6’ 10" mushrider has 13" of nose cut off of a 7’ 11" pipe type wave gun rocker.
Early in the evolution of boards, some single fins actually had negative rocker. I saw boards like this when guys would bring them in for repairs. The rocker along the stringer actually went downward. However that was compensated for by putting a lot of V in the back half.
Nobody does it that way today for the reason that rocker is better. But maybe that tells you something.
If you want a board that goes up the face of the wave, about 3-1/2" TR for a 9’ board is minimum, for a single fin or a 1+2.
Less rocker than that an you end up with a board that will turn ok off the bottom and then projects you out on the shoulder.
That would be with a rocker that is continuous toward the center of the board and then begins to accelerate upward about (at least) 18" from the tail, and with the board having some nice outline curve as well. This type of rocker applies to boards that have tucked rails in the tail, with a hard edge. 50/50 rails in the tail work with less tail kick.
As a beginning surfer, I would have done a lot better if I’d known that. I had some boards that were pretty flat in the tail and when I’d cut back, the board would stall.
Any board will bottom turn. Getting the rocker and planshape and rails right will give you good smooth fast cutbacks.
A board that cuts back well is the key to good hotdog style, fun long boarding. Cause then you can flirt with the lip!
Even as a beginner you’ll have more fun learning those maneuvers if your board is designed for that.
Anyhow, that’s just my viewpoint on that. I hope nothing I’ve added here is contradictory to what you’re getting, because it can get confusing with so many variables. Good luck!
Make it easy on yourself. Use 3.75 inches for both nose, and tail rocker. Wide point 5 inches aft of center, is consistant with the wide point of an early ‘60’s Phil Edwards model. Same is true of the rocker. If it were me making the board, I’d probably stick with 9’ 0’', but that’s just me. Good luck on your project. It’s very similar to how I started, so many years ago.
In general, boards in the mid 7’ range are the easiest to learn to surf on - once you’ve learned to stand up. You can stand in one place to surf them. Longboards require turning from the tail, then moving up to trim, then back to the tail to turn. Not terribly difficult to learn on Cali point breaks, but pretty hard on short beachbreak rides. I had a 9’ 6" Da Cat in the late 70’s, and rode it in wind swell beach break when everything else was flat - I was a very busy boy when I did that - being in nearly constant motion walking up/down the board while adapting to the every chaging wave. That board did not have aft biased thickness, and takeoffs were spicy at times when the nose didn’t want to stay up. No, I’m not sorry I sold it.
Great information and thanks for sharing the knowledge.
I didn’t realize those midsize boards were easier to learn on and always assumed it was the longboards for stability and wave catching ease. I actually just finished a 8’ egg for myself and am making my wife a 7’6" egg now so perhaps I will stick with those until I actually learn what I am doing and will have better ideas as to what I want/gravitate towards in my surfing style.
Problem is that I just love making them and can’t stand it when I don’t have one in the garage to work on when I get home from work. Ha… I’ll proabably just start one and tinker and learn. I also really want to shape foam boards to serve as templates for my wooden boards later - cheaper and easier with foam over wood. Thanks again for the insight.
