looking down on longboards

General Discussion
41

I’ve never understood why the surfing world often divides surfing into two groups: longboards and shortboards. Then stereotypes are assigned to each group.

I love my longboards. However, I will probably never have the ability to surf a shortboard. Like most women, especially those over 35, I lack the upper body strength to do anything on a shortboard. Does this mean I’m a kook? I also had a complete knee replacement this year. This has compromised the bend in my knee, thus making it hard to flex the knee enough to pop-up on a shorter board. So am I less of a surfer?

I’m of the “surf anything” camp. While I have three longboards (one of which is a hull), I also have five other boards (mid-sized) and a surf mat. The board I ride on any given day often depends on how I’m feeling. These days, I’m tired of my longboards and ride an 8’0" hull. That’s neither a longboard nor a shortboard.

Yes, I do think people often look down on longboards. Part of that is the result of the serious explosion in the popularity of surfing over the last few years. All of these beginners in the water are on longboards. That’s what the majority of them should be on, even if it puts the rest of us in the lineup at risk. As for older guys who may or may not use longboards as a crutch, who are we to judge? I want to surf until I die. At some point, I won’t be able to ride anything but a longboard. I’m sure that’s the case with many of the older guys out in the water these days. They’ve surfed for decades. They’ve paid their dues and worn down their bodies. If they’re still out there surfing 50 years later, good for them. They deserve to be in the water. Now, that doesn’t mean they get to snake everyone. I’m just saying I’m not going to judge them based on what they ride.

I couldn’t care less what people ride. I vividly remember a blowhard at my home break years ago deriding another guy in the parking lot because he had a soft top. Well, that guy on the soft top proceeded to shred the hell out of that board. As it turns out, the guy rode that board as punishment because he’d forgotten to strap down his last board and it flew off the top of the car. He figured he was safest, at that time, with a soft top. But see? The first guy was being judgmental just based on the board. He knew nothing about the surfer he was ridiculing. (That surfer, who surfs longboards 80% of the time, launched and landed a wicked rail grab in the air on a longboard a few weeks ago. It was a beautiful sight. Now that I think of it, he was also wearing a springsuit and booties.)

When I was a competitive cyclist, I used to mutter “Shut up and ride” to those around me. Now it’s “Shut up and surf”.

42

…the other day a 16 years old gal in a 7´ 4 egg told me in the water some bad words about a guy who told she why drop the big board in front of his head when a big white water came…

almost a terrible accident occurs…for a rookie that dont know anything but think that she knows

and that happened in a point in good waves not in a “friendly popular summer beach” with knee high waves

 

even the girl imparts lessons in a beach surf school!

 

43

 

I disagree most vehemently. If they are putting people at risk they should not be anywhere other people. It is the one thing that will get me ‘upset’ more than anything else.

I am half Latino and half Irish. That means I can be really emphatic when I lose my temper. I will tell someone to leave the water if they are a hazard to others. If they don’t listen to verbal instruction, I will employ other tactics as necessary.

You sound like a beginner.

44

"Everyone surfs different and wants to feel different things from waves so I don't think that there is any limitation on design."

George Greenough - 1976 "Surfing" Magazine Vol 12 No 4 Pg 73

 

PS -

"We all had to work through the kook phase."

JM - 2009

 

45

 

It just takes one SUPer that lets you know “there are
three more behind this one” to change youre perspective… but then again it
also just takes one that is paddling up and down the crowded beachbreak, then snakes you off the peak you’ve been sitting on for 3 hrs to switch it right
back, patience should be rewarded right?  All it takes is one set in
the lineup and its usually pretty clear whats going on with the SUPers
from my experience.

Watching those drop knee bottom turns at first point is like nothing ive ever seen… Pretty girls knee paddling as the sun rises beat it out though, by the smallest of margins…

46

"Everyone surfs different and wants to feel different things from waves so I don't think that there is any limitation on design."

 

George Greenough - 1976 "Surfing" Magazine Vol 12 No 4 Pg 73

 

 

PS -

 

"We all had to work through the kook phase."

 

JM - 2009

 

 

Wise words john.

 

Im so glad i dont live where the surf is crowded, makes a big difference i think. People where i surf couldnt give a crap what you ride, because there's enough waves to go around i guess.

47

I don’t mean they should be on longboards shooting them at the rest of us. I mean a new surfer should start out on a longboard, especially those who are learning to surf as adults. Sorry if I was unclear about that.

I’ve been hit my beginners on longboards. One instance in particular was on a relatively uncrowded day. There was no one to the left or right of me. I was simply standing on the inside allowing this guy to surf by. He bailed. His board shot out. Thankfully, I ducked. His board tagged mine. I wasn’t happy about it. Don’t get me wrong.

However, it’s crowded out there. There are beginners everywhere you look. We can’t force them out of the water (although most of us would like to). I guess I’ve got more aloha than most. I’m kind of resigned to the fact that there are now so many people in the water. It’s not going to get any better or any less crowded.

Besides, I’m female. I have no “other tactics” to employ. I can’t intimidate my own dog, let alone another human being. So I just deal with the beginners, try to stay away from them and do my own thing.

Question: would you rather have beginners shooting what are essentially fast, pointy torpedoes out at you or would you rather have them on relatively slow tankers that are easier, in my experience, to avoid?

48

longboard-shortboard thats a media invention

before everything went mainstream they were just called surfboards

why?

because you only had one that’s all you could afford or need and it was your surfboard

quivers were another result of media invention to sell more boards

 

you just surfed back then

the concept of being a “surfer” is another media invention research it and how it’s related to the creation of the surf industry

 

where I surf we shortborders are out numbered 10-1 or 20-1

sometimes I’m the only shortborder trying to catch a wave outside amongst a mass of people on longboards who know if they don’t ride a longboard they won’t catch any waves. 

mix that with a half dozen or more SUPs and it can get frustrating

so i pay my penance until the ocean is kind enough to me

meanwhile all the other shortboards hang out on the inside to drop in on everyone

in the old days we called them shoulderhoppers

its like that everywhere except the better breaks

 

It used to be like this

as a beginner you sat off to the side out of the way catching the leftovers until you were competant enough to paddle through the sets and manuever through the crowd

then you could make your way outside into the mainbreak

it was like a pecking order with the most experienced and capable surfers at the mainbreak and the less experienced surfers off to the side further and further inside with the least experienced surfing closet to the shore for safety.

allot of this was because you would lose your board and had to swim if you wiped out in those days.

And no one wanted loose boards floating in the white water coming through the lineup cause it meant more surfers losing their boards and swimming. 

I guess that’s why this pecking order/experience requirement was enforced back then in the lineup.

 

but since the invention of the cord, the increase of surf schools and mainstreaming in the media of surfing, you see folks who seem to have the need to paddle straight out to the outside eventhough they can’t really swim or paddle for a wave or control their board safely in waves of that size and through the crowds that exist out there. The next dangerous thing are all those who either don’t know what they are doing, who are just having a party or are trying to snake and get caught on the inside of the incoming sets and are then in the way of those that are catching these waves. Again in the old days you understood the importance of not getting caught inside and you always made sure you were well out of the way or at least outside far enough not to get “caught”. Ever since the invention of the cord you don’t see surfers respecting the ocean like that anymore.

no respect for the ocean, those around you or yourself is why we see most of the ugliness these days.

If the ocean had the ability to enforce such bad behavior like it did back then by making surfers swim and lose their boards to the rocks or current then surfers probably would act more appropriately and this carefree attitude of how people act in a line would go away

Of course this doesn’t control the greed aspect but that is a responsibility of all those in the lineup.

If indeed those in the lineup really care about keeping it open and free then it will police itself.

The whole idea of calling something one thing versus something else is primarily economic in nature so the seperation can have some meaning be it social or financial($$).

 

49

There are two incidents I remember in last 20 years when I was hit very hard by loose boards.  Both times I was up and riding.  Once I took a board in the chest from a guy who dropped in on me and then ate it.  The other time a novice (happened to be a female on a big board) let her board go while pushing through the soup and it nailed me in the kidney.  I was blacking out from the pain, and pretty sure I had internal bleeding.  Turned out it was just a really horrible bruise.

Oneula (as usual) raises an excellent point about leashes.  They are like the handgun - the great equalizer.  As with the handgun, you no longer had to be bigger, faster or stronger than your opponent to kill him.  With the leashes, you no longer need be fit enough, coordinated enough or disciplined enough to paddle out and wreak havoc. 

Putting a smaller person or female on a big-arse longboard when they can barely swim is asking for trouble.  Bigger boards are impossible to duck dive and much more difficult to hang on to in the soup.  I'd rather be hit by a 7 pound thruster that will break when it whacks my head than a 25 pound volan monster that will snap my neck and keep on going.

50

 

The leash ruined surfing.  Now there’s no penalty for ditching your board.  Pre-leash you’d do anything to keep control of your board.  I can’t tell you how many trips over the falls I took with my legs, arms, whatever wrapped tightly around my board.  The kickout used to be an art in itself.  Now people just jump off their board when they think their ride is over.  Ugly.

Surfers were watermen.  We were in shape because we had to be.  You didn’t paddle into conditions you couldn’t swim in.  That… and the “enforcers” (a concept I embrace even though I don’t want to be that guy) kept the lineup in order.

Even though I sometimes use a leash, I try to surf like I don’t have one.  It’s the last resort when I screw up.  

51

The leash did ruin surfing, but for us it also saved fixing boards since we surfed in front of a rocky shoreline. I’ve been riding without a leash when I can, but I must say those long swims at low tide can be a pain. Worse is a long swim at low tide over Wana infested reefs. You don’t dare touch bottom no matter how shallow it gets.

As for longboards, a wave hog is a wave hog. It’s not the board, but a longer board allows for easier paddling. Getting into a wave earlier and paddling back out faster always seem to fit into a wave hogs profile. If I go out on my 9’4", I can catch a wave as early as anyone out. Sometimes I’ll do it and mess with the wave hogs, but they don’t get it. They just keep doing what they do.

Pretty girls… if they’re just in the way and don’t know how to surf, well, they’re just in the way. I like that there are a lot more pretty girls out who know how to surf. If you drop in on me at least be able to get down the line and make the wave. There’s usually enough room for two if the person in front knows what they’re doing. We often ride 2 to a wave, with one person out in front leaving plenty of room for the person in back to do whatever. I often encourage people to keep going in front as long as I have enough space to have a good time too.

52

you’re right,no leashes would make it sooo uncrowded!ever had a big SUP coming at you sideways,mowing everyone down?we were scattering like a flock of birds,ugly.the guy’s leash broke,waaay outside on a clean up set.I got my wife to surf,after years on a boogie board,but  you should see her kick outs,hilarious.She squeezes her nose with one hand,hops off while turning backwards and falling flat on her back,careful not to let her butt hit the reef!Needless to say,there is no one around us!!!I should put that on youtube!

53

No leashes when I learned.  If you fell, you swam.  And you had to learn to fix your own dings, 'cause you got plenty if you surfed near cliffs, rocky points or cobblestone beaches. 

And how 'bout wetsuits?  If we’re going to complain about leashes, let’s not give wetsuit technology a pass.  In the old days, you couldn’t stay out for 3 hours running in mid February, that’s for sure (except in Hawaii).  We kept a bonfire stoked on the beach and surfed in shifts.   I surfed my first winter without any suit at all, then saved up and bought a short-sleeved jacket with a high neck and a beavertail from a dive shop (for $15 I think it was).  All neoprene, no nylon laminates back then (so they rashed you like a bugger) and THICK (had to have been 5 or 6M).  When O’neill came out with the first “Farmer Johns” we thought we’d died and gone to Heaven: you could finally keep your “tender bits” warm!

And the satillite cams and improved forcasting have contributed at least as much to crowding as the leash.  Before all that stuff, you could catch the first few hours of a new swell relatively uncrowded if you had any savvy.  Now the crowds are vectored to your spot days before the swell even STARTS to show.

Another thing that’s made learning a breeze (compared to the old days) is sponge boards.  Falling on or getting hit by one is a lot less painful than when your dealing with a 30-pound log with a monster D fin and three redwood stringers that’s glassed with 20-oz. cloth and a deck patch.

Beginners can stay out longer now and spend the whole session learning to surf (not swim), which really shortens the learning curve and keeps them from getting disheartened and giving up. Great for the industry, not so good for crowd dynamics.

“Why…back in MY day…” mumble, grumble, sputter

54

I think the real issue here isn't what type of board a person rides, whether or not they're a beginner, or even the leash. It's the unfortunate prevalence of  SELF ABSORPTION, along with a greedy sense of ENTITLEMENT - not just in surfing but nearly everywhere today.

Those of us who grew up in the '70's got derisively nicknamed "the ME Generation" by those older than us. Well, we weren't even CLOSE to the self-centered arrogance and lack of consideration a lot of priveleged California suburbanites demonstrate today. Try riding your bike to work and having some "Real Housewives of Orange County" type almost run you down in her big 'ol  environment-trashing Hummer while blabbing away on her cellphone! 

Too many people  today act like they're the only ones on Earth, and it sucks. In some ways surfing's the least of it - what about those mean-spirited politicians in the Legislature who stubbornly fight ANY tax increase, even as California's emergency services, hospitals, services for the indigent and elderly, and state parks are starved for funds and dying?

People have forgotten that we're all in this together, and need to show cooperation and KINDNESS to one another. That applies to surfing as well as everything else. You see people cut each other off  when walking or driving, as well as in the water, without even making eye contact. You see waves go unridden because people don't COMMUNICATE, when they could've easily split an A-frame peak with a right and a left and BOTH had fun. 

All these complaints about beginners and those who supposedly use a bigger board as a "crutch" miss the point entirely. (We ALL were beginners once after all ... and those of us over 50, with bad backs and tricky rotator cuffs, NEED more volume in our boards so we can keep enjoying our life's passion! You young hotties will be there too one day!) THE OCEAN BELONGS TO EVERYONE, and the surfing population is only going to increase from here, so people need to accept that, be considerate, and cooperate so everyone can have fun.

Everyone is very quick to call out someone who drops in on a wave that's already being ridden. But people have conveniently forgotten the flipside of the equation - that you're supposed to TAKE TURNS and let others go instead of grabbing every wave that comes through! The real bully is the WAVE HOG, no matter which kind of board he or she rides!

Frankly, I'd way rather be surrounded by beginners. You can be friendly and kind to a beginner and gently explain to them how to do their best not to ruin anyone else's ride.But an arrogant wave-hog with a big ego - who must imagine everyone else is only out there to WATCH him or her catch every wave that comes through! - is  basically unreachable, and too often has the tacit approval of others who won't  dare confront the  selfish "alpha dog".

Everyone, beginners or not, should read Shaun Tomson's book The Surfer's Code. If people lived by the values in that book, we'd have a better world as well as less hostile lineups.

55

 

That’s a big part of it. People are oblivious or just unmindful of those around them. As long as they’re having fun, the hell with everyone else.

 

 

Shaun Tomson should try living by the values in his own book. How many times was he punched out in the SB/Ventura area for being a dick in the water?

56

Longboarders just happen to be the worst offenders.  An ignorant crutch riding longboarder can wreak alot more havoc in the lineup than he otherwise would if hewere on a shortboard.  Then throw 10 or 20 of them out at your favorite spot......

By the way when I talk about crutch riders I'm not talking about the older set.  I'm talking about fit people in their teens, twenties and thirties who lack basic skills, basic water knowledge and courtecy and who are only using a longboard because they are kooks following the latest fad that is longboarding.

"Its all about the glide".......I've heard that bullsh#$ statement so many times I wanna puke.  Its not about the glide for these kooks its all about the wavecatching advantage.

57

We live in a society of d*cks, and face it, not only are surfers no exception, some of us are the worst of the bunch.  Case in point:

I was perusing craigslist for a new board this morning.  Saw one I liked in the South Bay, about 30 miles from my place.  Those of you who know LA know that most people commute to work, usually some distance.  Moreover, many people in the South Bay commute to West LA, near where I live.  So I drop the guy the following email:

"Hi, is the board still available?  Any chance of meeting in the Santa Monica area to check it out?"

Here's the response I got a few hours later:

"Hi, yes it is and no, I don't drive boards around on the chance someone will buy one."

Now, I might have driven down to check the board anyway, but not after that guy's obnoxious response.  You're looking to make a sale, buddy, not me.

The people in the water are no different than the people on the 405.  They'll cut you off, slam on the brakes and then give you the finger.  Welcome to LA.  I've lived here my whole life and seen it degenerate continuously.

58

I don’t think you should be bashing L.A. . . . unless you allow me to join in! Yeah, the people here surf like they drive. Noleash has got that right. Now, you take that L.A. a**hole mentality (and I can say that because I, too, was born and raised here), give it a longboard and you’ve got pure chaos in the water. Stir into that mix this attitude of self-importance with a sprinkling of apathy about surf etiquette.

It’s a mess. What bothers me most is that a lot of these people fail to recognize that they should not be out in the lineup on a big day. Nope. They happily paddle right into the fray. I guess I’m echoing the sentiments of a lot of people. If you’re going to be in the water, you should be competent. I’ve had my leash break on a big day. Instead of worrying about drowning, I was simply pissed because my board was thrown into the rocks. I don’t think the outcome would have been the same with a lot of the folks out here. I swam in, got the board, ran to the car, taped up the dings and paddled back out.

Sorry. I needed to vent, I guess.

59

Last Saturday we had a swell, and I spent 4 hours in the water. Didn’t get one worthwhile ride. I could have had a couple good ones, but there were always 4 or 5 people right there where you’d be dropping down looking terrified. If I go I surely will hit someone, and they’re too far in to catch the wave. So a lot of good ones go unridden. Very frustrating.

I was thinking about going and hitting a few just to make a point, but that wouldn’t have been very cool. Sad thing was that these were not long boarders, but short boards. They sit inside and when the set comes they’re all in the wrong place. I probably would have been able to get in early enough to get around some of them if I had my longboard, but I prefer small boards in bigger waves. So in this case a high performance longboard would have been a better choice to ride.

60

[quote=“$1”]

 

“By the way when I talk about crutch riders I’m not talking about the older set.  I’m talking about fit people in their teens, twenties and thirties who lack basic skills, basic water knowledge and courtecy and who are only using a longboard because they are kooks following the latest fad that is longboarding.”

Hey Mako, glad to hear that you don’t mean us over-50 stoked groms when you talk about “crutch riders”.  I COMPLETELY agree with you about young, clueless, inconsiderate people riding a longboard because they’re following a fashion! The WORST is when they go out with a group of their friends! The attitude that no one else exists other than their little clique becomes truly insufferable then. And sorry, gotta say this although I’m a female myself … I often find that some of the young girls are the worst offenders, especially if they start acting silly with their friends and become even more oblivious to other people in the water. People need to take the blinders off!