Looking for more experience

        I have been making boards for myself and some others for 5 years now. I have created my own label and sell the ones I make pretty quick. I am self taught to say the least. I have tried for many years to gain experience with professionals. Some places I have even been more or less escorted out for asking if I could help anywhere even for free. I cant count how many times I’ve heard the “protecting my share” speech. I wont even go into my personal opinions on that matter.

        I’m looking for someplace I can gain professional experience. I am willing to travel in my off monthes of dec.-march. I might not even require pay in the right instance. I feel I have exhausted all avenues locally. I am not your competition, I am your brother, I am a surfer.

        If anyone can point me towards someone willing to take me in as a sander, shaper, dings, maid, beer-bitch, whatever. I am a hard working honest person who is looking for professional development and opportunity.

Good luck......you are talking to a largely paranoid community......I had the same response thirty years ago, so obviously things haven't changed too much.

 

And yes, you are their competition, whether you like it or disagree with it or not.

 

But good luck all the same. There are many good people out there.

“I’m located in…”  ???

I live on the outer banks, NC.

Here's a suggestion....

One picture is worth a thousand words. Take and post some pictures of your work. The more detailed the better. This will be your 'resume' so to speak.

If the work looks good, someone in North Carolina or the surrounding area may want to utilize your ability and go from there.

Figure out a piecework schedule or ask what each facet of board building pays: laminating, hotcoats, fin installation, sanding, glossing, polishing..........

If you were in my neighborhood I'd be training you to sand, gloss and polish as I am falling behind doing everything myself and have to farm a bit out.

It's a good problem to have these days.

Have fun and best of luck.

Here is my latest board I made for myself. 6’1"x11.5x18.5x13.75x2.25. Didnt even bother to sign it.

"Didn't even bother to sign it".............................. ?

Why, aren't you proud of your work? One pic won't do the trick. If ya wanna attract and play with the big boyz you'd best have a whole pile of your past work as your resume.

What else ya got?

................................... reality check ..............................................

here's a sample for ya: http://www.goletasurfing.com/fowler.html

 

Reality check? If I had made thousands of boards over a forty year career, and had my own website, I wouldnt be making posts looking for professional development. I didnt sign my board because its just for me and I’ll make a new one in a couple weeks. What ever the case, I had some boards all together recently so I got a picture.

    Howzit deadshaper, You hit the nail on the head about trying to break into the business at a real factory even 40+ yrs ago. To say the least first you do need to have ability and craftsmanship and it's now kind of a " It's not what you know but who you know " to even get in the front door in the beginning. I was lucky enough to know somebody at Plastic Fantastic to even meet the owner and after a few visits I got Gary to let me tape off a board and he saw something he liked and took me under his tutormanship and I did the sweeping and gofer thing plus learned how to perp the the board right up to adding catalyst and doing the lamination. But one day after about 3 1/2 months I had ta board ready for Gary himself to glass and after handing him the bucket of resin to be catalyzed he just handed the bucket back to me and said "you're ready" and that was the start of working in a real factory for the real guys. I like your idea of the resume book and I have one that is full of most of my painted or tint/pigment work some where's, but that only shows my art work and not my laminating abilities. But I don't think about that much these days since the cancer thing was a warning to not smoke cigs and to stay away from toxic chems at all means. I wish any and all good luck if surfboard building is your dream. Aloha,Kokua

   Howzit leadfoot, Lets's back up for a second and get something straight.In. your opening post you say you have been building boards for 5 years. In your last post you say you have made thousands of boards over a 40 year career. If you have made thousands of board over such a legth of time I would think you name is well known in the business and getting into a factory would be a snap. Please clarify.Aloha,Kokua

      I was replying to Deadshapers comments about “playing with the big boys”. He sited his website as an example. The site details his 40 some years career in surfboard retail. I commented that IF I had all that experience such as he was recommending, I would’nt need to be looking for professional development, though the perspective was helpful.

      I havent made thousands of boards yet. I have refined my technique and theory on my own. I feel my next step is to work in a professional enviornment further refining my skills. I make good boards already. Im not well known because I cant afford to make hundreds of boards myself. 

      Im not making much headway in getting experience anywhere. Reguardless I will just continue on my own. At a certain point I guess I wont need any more development, which is not how I wanted to do things, but seems to be what everyone else demands.

**
**

" It’s not what you know but who you know " to even get in the front
door in the beginning.

 

I think the same thing applies to this site. We seem to get a steady trickle or stream of people with variable little or no experience, many first time posters ( 1 post wonders) looking for a job , an opportunity, or special 1 on1 instruction for free. None of them have thought to stay on the forum for a bit then ease into a request, most dissapear after the initial request within 1-10 posts. For the group of people I am referring to, their main or only purpose
for this website is to use it as a job board before moving on. In the case of the original poster, where has he been for the last five years…it appears ‘not on this website’ and where else should one be to learn to build boards??. 

Some presence on here whilst building boards would up the luck and crack into the familiarity factor to some degree whereby one could make friends online here with many current industry people and even more than a few legends. Most certainly someone making a ‘Grand First Post Appeal’ on this board is not going anywhere.

 

[quote="$1"]

     I am not your competition, I am your brother, I am a surfer.

[/quote]

 

You know I thought this myself until I had a recent wake up call. I've been making my own wooden boards for a couple of years now and just recently started learning to shape from foam. I never considered myself a threat to anyone in the business since I've never sold a board and have no illusions of ever becomming a prolific supplier of surfboards. Then one day last week I stopped off at the local surf shop to shoot the shit and pick up a bar of wax and was shocked to find the doors locked. I looked in the window and the place was gutted. I asked the guy in the pizza shop next door if he knew anything and he said "He's been gone for a few months now. Guess he wasn't doing much business..." I thought to myself, "wow, I can't believe he went out of business. I wonder why business was so bad." Then it dawned on me. First of all I haven't been to the shop in months. Second, I can't remember the last time I spent more than a few bucks on wax. I even bought my last wet suit on line because I saved fifty bucks. I haven't bought a surfboard in years. I realized that I AM part of the problem after all. I may not be competition in the sense that I am stealing his sales but In a way I am because I have elilminated myself as a customer. So has every other backyard shaper who makes his own boards. Naturally I could not have saved his business by buying a board or two but it made me realize why the pros don't take so kindly to newbies who want to break into the business and expect to be welcomed with opened arms and a coddling hand. I'm not going to stop making boards and I may even sell one some day but at least I can appreciate the cold shoulder act a bit when I see it.

 

For guys like leadfootd who want to break into the business for real, I think it would be good to remember this. Like it or not, you ARE competition. Not only that but you're asking your competition to train you so that you can be even better competition. That doesn't mean you should stop doing what your doing or abandon your aspirations, just understand your position and proceed from there. If you want to get into a shop, look for a job like you're looking for a job, not like you're a long lost friend coming in from the rain.

 

BTW, anyone know what happenned to Therapy Surf in Shirley NY? Good people. Sad to see them go.

leadfootd - i would advise you to take your product to a large glass house and show them 'this is what i can do - do you have a place for me?'  they will want you if you have the goods. if not, keep at it making boards for friends untill your skillz are up to par and something opens up.  in the outer banks - maybe the guys at WRV?  when i took the leap from building boards in the garage to being a factory worker, i moved out to hawaii and fell into place sanding. depending what your strengths are and what the shops need, you may be able to fall into place laminating, hotcoating, sanding, or polishing. or maybe cutting foam if you are good with computers?  start wherever you can and be persistant in learning and getting good at all the steps of the process.  you would have much better luck moving to a hub of boardbuilding where there are a bunch of shops and some turnover on employees. by the way - i enjoyed working in the factory but realized pretty quickly that it was not as glamorous as it seemed and it is a hard way to earn a living.  lucky for me, I had a degree in engineering to fall back on.  i am now back in the garage for fun!  i still do miss those days of surfing / sanding / surfing in the islands - simple life good waves.  if you are single and dont need much money, you could travel around australia, south africa, hawaii, california, japan and pick up work in the boardbuilding hubs ......

Lead........ interesting posts from a lot of knowledgeable industry people here. I certainly don't mean to beat down your passion, nor rain on your parade. Everyone starts somewhere. The pic of the 3 boards look clean but even now, that's only a testament to the common practice of stealing some established shaper's planshapes while repairing another guy's board, or generating one with a computer program. I'm not accusing you of doing this, I'm just saying this is COMMON practice.

Over the period of 5 years you've been making boards, most of us would expect you to have more pictures, but maybe you didin't really 'get the itch' to pursue boardbuilding in greater detail until recently. Heck, maybe you didin't even own a camera.

I come from an era that is totally foreign to many of the Swaylockian posters. It would be interesting for someone to chronicle our industry and the rise and fall of countries economies and how the digital age has ushered in new ways of creating the modern day surfboard.

For the most part, the experienced guys that have replied to you here are very generous in offering insights to newbies, jobseekers, and do it yourselfers. That isn't a value judgement or meant in a derogatory fashion, I'm simply saying that if one is to 'hang out' on Sway's for long enough, you realize there is a wealth of information that has been compiled over half a dozen years or so by people from all walks of life. But some of us see how redundant the inquiries become and liken it to hitting the snooze button.

Sometimes I feel like posting a thread titled "shaping to the Nth degree", which would go into handshaping that deals with things that don't come up in threads....

Like what? Stuff like the number of teeth on saws to use while cutting foam, or the qua;ity of cut a deep or shallow angle produces when cutting out your planshape. Maybe I'd explain the importance of CHRONOLOGY in cutting planer bands in order to produce the rail contour you so badly desire........ and that would delve into obtuse and acute angles while producing desired rail volume, deck contour, and thickness for that ultimate shape. Even the rocker can be changed from what you intend from the order of cuts you make and if you intersect cuts or not. Wrap your mind around that one.

The discussion would discuss the anatomy of the physical abilities and limitations of planers, the dynamics of forward and backward cuts, the toepiece of the planer and useful ways to use it for blending and knocking down high spots. It might disucss common shaping tools, like surforms, that are all too frequently 'crutch tools' versus being used sparingly for blending.  Power sanding would be a whole different ball of wax over in the 'production' chapter next to 'using overhead lights to wash out details and promote faster (less precise) shaping'. The thought makes me queasy, but it was a regular practice esp. before machining.

We could go into the importance of blocking out your work, how a study in parabolic curves play into true breaking curves, and how the CNC Board Cad approach doesn't take into account the many challenges that handshapers need to know to have exceptional control in creating a one off custom or successful design.

My era was before close tolerance blanks, when knoledgeable shapers had to 'read foam' befoe they started to net a light strong surfboard. To this day, I still 'restructure' a blank's foil (distribution, rocker, etc.) to get what my mind's eye aspire for, and my engineering sense demands, and without the ability to read foam and be cognizant that shaping is a reduction process, I have to know what I'm starting with before I ever get to what I want.....and all that while making sure the deck glass doesn't cave in from overshaped foam. Nowdays the guys machining your blanks better know what their doing and be using the correct deck rockers and interact with the blank company you are using so 'the machine' doesn't over shape your design...

A lotta young shapers might say "oh yeah, we all do that, but nothing could be further from the truth. But wannabes have exceptional talent for tapping into Sway's to read up then expound terms and regurgitate stuff with convincing aplomb thereby wowing their prospective customers.

Why don't we make the guys that have mastered that technique legends from day one?

 

 

To deadshaper ; Thanks for the perspactive. I havent been a member long for the lack of my own computer much less a camera. I have been reading the info here for years. I have been taking my shapes to glassers for years now. I go to one all the time and they have glassed some boards for me. Unfortunately theyre not interested in having me do anything there.

       The technical details of design and tools you mentioned is the reason for my post. I couldnt find these sort of details elsewhere on the site. I have figured out my own processes but wanted those details that you only really can get with a high number of boards shaped. I thought offering to work for little or no money would be a fair trade. Im not looking for free handouts of hard earned knowledge. People in my area have even told me they dont understand parbolic theory or compounding curves much less any techniques for reliably producing them.

       I started shaping because I wasnt getting what I wanted in my customs. I would feel like I could do a better job myself so I did. The very theory and technique you mentioned are the difference between a throwaway and a magic board. I hope to find some others that are experienced in those details and provide them with a competitive advantage of cheap labor in hopes of picking up some details. Or I will just figure it out on my own.

 

Right on Lead. Follow your passion and don't let anyone dissuade you!

It's the compound curves that get you addicted........ :) DS

1111

 how a study in parabolic curves play into true breaking curves, and
how the CNC Board Cad approach doesn’t take into account the many challenges
that handshapers need to know to have exceptional control in creating a one off
custom or successful design.

**** 

Dead being a power user of CAD programs and also mowed my fair share of foam
with an electric planner I would like to add my $0.02 here:

I realize you most likely are the most skilled with an electric planer on
Swaylocks hands down and a good board designer!

A CAD program is most useful for those who have a background in templating a
board from scratch and compounding curves. In fact if you understand the
foundational elements of shaping you can be a very good CAD user. Less than 2%
of the board building population really actually know how to properly use it. In
support of your comments there are many who go straight to CAD and bypass the
Foundational principles of Shaping and their ability to really customize will
be limited to their lack of knowledge. However CAD programs “If” you know how to
use them are very powerful tools. I personally can do one off custom from a CAD
program in minutes. Let’s don’t forget NASSA uses them to design space shuttles.
I think a surfboard can be design properly in a CAD program as well.

Having said
all that: shaping your own board from start to finish by hand and having it surf amazingly then scanning it and making a computer file to repeat the magic is the
proper way to handle CAD. Knowing Rocker, Foil, Compound Curves and Rail
profiles is key in shaping and the same principles apply to CAD…

Copying some ones outline does not make you a board
designer, Understanding the science of Hydrodynamics is the beginning of a
career in board design.

Be true to the craft and learn deck rockers. 90% of board builders don’t
understand this trust me!
Free information
If your deck line matches your rocker design then all the thickness is adjusted from the bottom. If you shape this way the decks are much stronger. CNC hackers will take a random blank and plow the board into the blank. This compromises the integrity of the boards strength and flex. Better board builders are within a 1/16" accuracy concerning matching the deck rocker of a CNC file to the proper blank.

 

Kind regards,

Surfding

“It’s the compound curves that get you addicted” 

                                                D.S.- B.F.

That’s it in a nutshell, but it speaks VOLUMES!