Coral is the intentionally stupidly cute character dreamed up by a regular > here at Swaylocks.>>> I find that good old bend-over-n-grunt work strengthens my back muscles > immensely. Planting plants, working on cars. The idea is to move to > differing back poses in the outdoor heat. At first the back complains. > Sometimes I even have to lay off for a while with some ibuprofen. But then > my back gets stronger. I also lose weight.>>> Where individual diagnosis may not be wise, on a broad scale > “Me” is right on. My grandmother always told me “Your > internal organs aren’t supposed to carry your weight. Your back is > supposed to carry your weight.” I’ve talked to lots of people with > ruptured disks. Every case of ruptured disk I’ve ever come across, the > person was overweight and trying to lift large heavy objects. Put a foot > of fat between your back and the weight, and it can’t do you any good. You > have to wrap your backbone around the object and your own fat in order to > balance over your feet. Hello? Backs won’t do that.>>> Funny how westerners’ lives were once consumed with this type of work > before air conditioning, indoor work, computers and television. Now we use > our backs less, and everybody’s backs hurt …odd! It’s a syndrome with > America’s new fat, sedentary population. We can’t do physical work because > we’re too fat. We can’t skinny down because we’re too fat to work.>>> The solution? Denial. Blame the person who tells us the truth.>>> Say, are you gunna eat that other twinkie? \ Well said. Where the hell is Bonta??? M
you say about "not supposed to be much of a curve from side to side . > … " Ardha-Chandrasana is its official name . … and it goes back > hundreds of years . … a yoga pose . … that uses the INFRASPINITIS or > spinal muscles as you so oddly term the quadratus lumborum . … let’s see > my $200 dollar UCLA Anatomy book here with Japanese photography on all > real tissue, it also does not have your odd term . … hey so what . … > I am the one NOT for terms . … but you’re wrong. The spine can take > plenty of sideward curve, Half Moon Pose is held with the upper body being > completely laid out sideways from the lower body . … with the arms > completely held up - which demands the lower and middle spinal muscles > hold the body in balance. A snake . … depends completely on his spinal > muscles . … your term scoliosis is the LACK of spinal muscles and so > the bones are displaying to unusual degrees . … but it merely is a > observational temporary description . … .and a person can change it. It > is not a condition unless the person chooses to try and NOT change it. But > it is not a condition that is genetic . … or valid . … or anything. I > would suggest saying weak spinal muscles . … but not scoliosis.>>> This is what you say . … forgive me but read it again . … you actually > say scoliosis is an underlying cause of muscular imbalance. Hey DB, it is > not the cause of it . … it might be a fancy term that only MEANs muscular > imbalance, like I said, it is LACK of spinal development. And you are > talking as if muscular imbalance comes later . . . after bone imbalance . > … uh . … life college . . is that where they taught you that BONES are > first developed before muscle tissue ??? . . . Because they are a more > concentrated laying down of calcium and minerals in tissue that WAS AT > FIRST Muscular tissue . … . and Bones are completely dependent upon > muscle for their alignment . … .so a term suggesting a condition that is > quite changeable per muscular development, is NOT a term that finitely > describes a muscular condition. oR A bone condition for that matter. Think > about it, DB>>> Your sentence: "Of course the spine is natually curved, anteriorly to > posteriorly that is(front to back). However, there is not supposed to be > much of a curve from side to side. This is scoliosis, an underlying cause > of muscular imbalance and resulting back pain for a lot of people. " I reckon we could go on for a life time discussing this one eh me? But all the same, its fascinating listening to some of you views and ideas, I understand where you are coming from with some of it. Like, the power of the human body to repair itself, to over come disabilities, to re-grow, to re-train itself. Also the power of the mind and spirit,it never ceases to amaze me how even the most difficult of problems can be overcome.At the end of the day, there are many ways to solve a problem. There are no hard and fast rules, about how we approach anything. I think that’s the beauty of this page. It’s a melting pot of ideas and points of view and most of all experience. Until a few weeks ago I had never shaped a surf board, now I have, and next time I shape another one, I will do so with the knowledge that I have gleaned from doing, and from speaking to the people on these pages. I will progress, move forward. Until a few months ago, I had never stopped to think about my spine. Now I do think, and learn and stretch and work muscles that I had very little understanding of, and maybe still don’t, but I’m learning. So, if you have some Ideas on how some of us can benefit from your experience, then do so. Laters Peaman
Wavelust! You have to - seriously, brah - STRETCH - before AND after a surf. If it becomes a problem during a session…get out and stretch a bit more. In addition, most of us forget to hydrate by drinking water BEFORE a surf session. Believe it or not, lack of hydration can manifest in muscle pain (no, I am not a doctor, but have been told this by one). Hopefully, you haven’t tweaked a disc…but I’m sure you probably would have known this from the amount of initial pain. Keep stretching, Wave! (Yoga ain’t such a bad idea…Look at Gerry Lopez! Cobra stretch, holmes!).
I have lower back pain and it’s affecting my ability to enjoy surfing. > What’s the solution? I think I got this from lifting weights in an attempt > to build more muscle.>>> Yoga? Acupunctor? Pain killers? Massage? Chiropractor? Massage?>>> Help. http://drtom.net/ http://ongleyonline.com/ Every joint in the body is held together by a ligament. When ligaments tear (we call this a “sprain”) the joint can become unstable, like in a sprained ankle. When ligaments tear around a vertebrae (i.e. “whiplash”), the spine becomes unstable. You experience muscle spasm because the muscles are trying to make up for the weakness in the spine. Ligaments have a poor blood supply and don’t heal easily. Left to nature, ligament healing is usually complete by 6-8 weeks, and certainly by 3 months. If the ligaments heal back to their normal length and strength, the joint regains it’s stability and there is no pain. But if the ligaments are still stretched or elongated, the joint can become unstable. The instability will become chronic, experienced by most people as low-grade, nagging pain. This instability leads to excessive rubbing which leads to degenerative arthritic changes. Prolotherapy stimulates the healing mechanism of our body’s tissues. It promotes the body’s own natural healing ability. Each treatment results in more and more tissue being regenerated in the needed areas in a natural, structural formation. The joints continue to become stronger and more stabilized. Thus, the natural functions of the body are regained. Conversely, pain lessens until, in most cases, it disappears entirely. Prolotherapy can be administered whenever ligaments, tendons, cartilage and/or discs are torn or worn. There are numerous positive factors in prolotherapy. First, it promotes the body’s own natural healing ability. Second, it restores and optimizes the body’s natural functions. No heavy drugs or surgery are used. Perhaps the greatest benefit of prolotherapy is that it relieves pain. How effective is prolotherapy? In 1987 the Lancet, a respected British medical publication, reported that 35 out of 40 patients in an experimental prolotherapy group showed greater than 50% improvement. Another study, published in the U.S.'s Journal of Spinal Disorders in 1993, found similar results.
I’m no metaphysic. Physical characteristics are just that, physical. They have physical causes and physical cures. However, changing a person’s mental outlook is sometimes a necessary first step in convincing them to change their physical regimen. That said, the modern western medical profession, like its legal counterpart, is guilty of feeding their clients’ egos with procedures which harm their clients, for the purpose of self enrichment. Overweight sedentary patients come to doctors with back problems. Doctors have two choices, 1) tell patients to spend 5% of their waking time exercising, or 2) show patients a picture of a transitory physical effect of their lifestyle which can be removed with money and surgery. Such a patient is already spending 95% of his life frantically working his brain and mouth in an effort to keep lawyers from destroying his life, home and family. Let’s say the doctor was to tell his patient that he is living a physically lazy, sedentary lifestyle, and needs to change his chosen lifestyle. Got a life size picture of that? So lets say the doctor tells his patient “This disk is rupturing, and should be removed. These ligaments are inflamed and should be rested. That’ll be $3,500. Pay the receptionist on your way out.” The patient is already lined up to earn $3,500 more. Which story is this dood gunna believe? …Hmmmm? Uhhh, I know. The problem must be in his disk and ligaments. So he gets his disk removed, and rests his ligaments. In the process, the doctor fuses two of his vertebrae. This patient is no longer capable of losing the weight, or gaining the motion which caused his problem in the first place. Further, he has defined the rest of his life. He will get fatter, develop circulatory problems and diabetes, and more spinal disks will fuse… more pain, requiring more surgery. Every one of us has seen this syndrome so many times it should make us sick. But we still keep lying to ourselves, and paying doctors to lie to us. If you are heading down this path, save your life. Get out on the road. Start off walking if you can’t run. Run a little farther each day. If you have to start out running 3 steps the first day, NOBODY’S WATCHING. You don’t have to bend your back or stretch painful ligaments to walk and run. After you work off some weight, then you can start working on back motion. Age makes this process more painful, but NOT impossible. So start now, before the pain gets any worse. Enjoy the scenery which was put before us, and enjoy the pain killers you were born with. Maybe a change in mental outlook is in order. Westerners need to change priorities in order to save their lives. What’s your life worth? A little road time? Sorry, $3,500 won’t buy what you need. What ever happened to the first tenet of the Hippocratic oath, “Do no harm”? Screw modern medicine. Invite your wife and kids on your road trips.
After attending my last SA meeting, I decided to fight the urge to respond to every topic that comes up around here. Well, that meeting was at least a few hours ago and I can’t seem to help myself on this one. I’ve carefully read all the posts and everyone seems to have an opinion. For each and every post, I’m sure there is some life experience that validates that opinion - at least for that person. I’m no doctor, but I’ve been involved in the medical field for almost 30 years. Believe me, as a neuro-diagnostician specializing in brain waves and spinal cords, I’ve seen some SHIT. I’m the guy who did the test on countless people before they pulled the plug. I’ve seen and worked on many cases that involved brain, spine and spinal cord trauma. Some made it, some didn’t. Some were permanently paralyzed, others walked out after coming in paralyzed. Some, after years of rehab, could maybe push the button on a remote control device to change the channel on their TV. Many need continuous nursing care to be fed, butts wiped, etc. I’m not here singing the blues… just to say that NO ONE on this thread should be making any kind of blanket statement regarding the advantages/disadvantages of conventional vs non-conventional treatments in medical cases that they know nothing about. If you just went over the falls and landed on your board before you got the ax and broke your back resulting in a severed spinal cord - you’re toast, pal. No new age, holistic, chiropractic manipulation, health food shit is gonna fix it. For that matter, no neurosurgeon is gonna fix it either. If you don’t like what your doc is telling you, you owe it to yourself to get a SECOND OPINION - but don’t take anybody’s word for it on Swaylock’s.
I’m no metaphysic. Physical characteristics are just that, physical. They > have physical causes and physical cures. However, changing a person’s > mental outlook is sometimes a necessary first step in convincing them to > change their physical regimen.>>> That said, the modern western medical profession, like its legal > counterpart, is guilty of feeding their clients’ egos with procedures > which harm their clients, for the purpose of self enrichment. Overweight > sedentary patients come to doctors with back problems. Doctors have two > choices, 1) tell patients to spend 5% of their waking time exercising, or > 2) show patients a picture of a transitory physical effect of their > lifestyle which can be removed with money and surgery.>>> Such a patient is already spending 95% of his life frantically working his > brain and mouth in an effort to keep lawyers from destroying his life, > home and family.>>> Let’s say the doctor was to tell his patient that he is living a > physically lazy, sedentary lifestyle, and needs to change his chosen > lifestyle. Got a life size picture of that?>>> So lets say the doctor tells his patient “This disk is rupturing, and > should be removed. These ligaments are inflamed and should be rested. > That’ll be $3,500. Pay the receptionist on your way out.” The patient > is already lined up to earn $3,500 more. Which story is this dood gunna > believe? …Hmmmm?>>> Uhhh, I know. The problem must be in his disk and ligaments. So he gets > his disk removed, and rests his ligaments. In the process, the doctor > fuses two of his vertebrae. This patient is no longer capable of losing > the weight, or gaining the motion which caused his problem in the first > place. Further, he has defined the rest of his life. He will get fatter, > develop circulatory problems and diabetes, and more spinal disks will > fuse… more pain, requiring more surgery.>>> Every one of us has seen this syndrome so many times it should make us > sick. But we still keep lying to ourselves, and paying doctors to lie to > us.>>> If you are heading down this path, save your life. Get out on the road. > Start off walking if you can’t run. Run a little farther each day. If you > have to start out running 3 steps the first day, NOBODY’S WATCHING. You > don’t have to bend your back or stretch painful ligaments to walk and run. > After you work off some weight, then you can start working on back motion. > Age makes this process more painful, but NOT impossible. So start now, > before the pain gets any worse. Enjoy the scenery which was put before us, > and enjoy the pain killers you were born with.>>> Maybe a change in mental outlook is in order. Westerners need to change > priorities in order to save their lives. What’s your life worth? A little > road time? Sorry, $3,500 won’t buy what you need.>>> What ever happened to the first tenet of the Hippocratic oath, “Do no > harm”? Screw modern medicine. Invite your wife and kids on your road > trips. Noodle, I couldn’t agree with you more. But, being in the medical profession by default, my wife is a Occupational Therapist, part of the problem lies with the patients/society itself. They want an instant “fix” and many people believe surgery does this. But we know it often only makes things worse. The body will adapt and/or repair itself “IF” given enough time and care (ready therapy) but most people don’t have the patience to “ride it out.” and they put pressure on medical people to provide a “quick fix”. My wife hears this all the time from patients “Can’t we just operate?” instead of months of rehab therapy. I’ve been dealing with shoulder problems for 2 1/2 years and it is improving SLOWLY. But I’ve resisted the “quik fix” of Acromioplasty surgery (rotator cuff decompression) because you stand a good chance of never returning to you’re previous level or having chronic shoulder pain. So I’ve been going through what my wife calls the “two steps forward, one back” progress. Exercising to improve the shoulder ((two steps forward)with an occassional flair-up of shoulder pain (one step back) It’s a complicated medical situation for sure and takes along time. P.S- I’m getting all pumped over this new So.-Hemi swell on the way. Santa Cruz has been crappy all summer.
After attending my last SA meeting, I decided to fight the urge to respond > to every topic that comes up around here. Well, that meeting was at least > a few hours ago and I can’t seem to help myself on this one. I’ve > carefully read all the posts and everyone seems to have an opinion. For > each and every post, I’m sure there is some life experience that validates > that opinion - at least for that person. I’m no doctor, but I’ve been > involved in the medical field for almost 30 years. Believe me, as a > neuro-diagnostician specializing in brain waves and spinal cords, I’ve > seen some SHIT. I’m the guy who did the test on countless people before > they pulled the plug. I’ve seen and worked on many cases that involved > brain, spine and spinal cord trauma. Some made it, some didn’t. Some were > permanently paralyzed, others walked out after coming in paralyzed. Some, > after years of rehab, could maybe push the button on a remote control > device to change the channel on their TV. Many need continuous nursing > care to be fed, butts wiped, etc. I’m not here singing the blues… just > to say that NO ONE on this thread should be making any kind of blanket > statement regarding the advantages/disadvantages of conventional vs > non-conventional treatments in medical cases that they know nothing about. > If you just went over the falls and landed on your board before you got > the ax and broke your back resulting in a severed spinal cord - you’re > toast, pal. No new age, holistic, chiropractic manipulation, health food > shit is gonna fix it. For that matter, no neurosurgeon is gonna fix it > either. If you don’t like what your doc is telling you, you owe it to > yourself to get a SECOND OPINION - but don’t take anybody’s word for it on > Swaylock’s. John, I couldn’t agree with you more John!-- maybe even and 3rd, 4th or 5th opinion. I had to deal with the problem for over three years. I was 55 years old and was carrying heavy shoulder bags in the Denver Airport trying to keep up with the crazy flights during the blizzard of ‘96. We’ll we I got home to Santa Cruz and woke up in the morning I started feeling some pain and a couple of days later I was a basket case. I talked to my family doctor who’s personal friend and a physical therapist who works at the high school where I coach the girls soccer team, both real down to earth guys. They basically said, “Your in for a long haul.” I thought I was going to be a cripple and was real scared I can tell you but I followed their directions and read everything I could on the subject. The best book was “Healing Back Pain Without Drugs or Surgery.” The most important thing I learned it the you have to think of your back as though it is part of your brain because it remembers pain protecting itself accordingly. I decided to tough it out and not hide from the pain just ice when it got to bad. If I was getting worse I wanted to know it and drugs would only get in the way as far as I was concerned. For the first three or four months I wore a corset with a little hard triangular shaped insert the pressed on the small of my back 24 hours a day. The only time I took it off was to run hot water over my back spend about 10 mins very gently stretching it all directions and then icing it for about 30 mins. If I didn’t wear the corset when I slept I had more pain in the morning then when I went to bed. We’ll after a few months of being pretty immoble. I start doing crunches and working on a rowing machine very carefully after the hot water and the stretching. After I worked out I strectched again iced and immobilized. Believe me I took it real easy at first. I did this, getting gradually stronger of the period of 3 years. I’m happy to say that I haven’t had any back pain for 2 years now. Seldom a day goes by that I don’t say a pray of thanks for this miracle of life that is capable of healing itself. The only thing one has to do is get educated and take charge of you own healing process letting go of how long it’s going to take unless of course the damage is irreversable, which it is unfortunately at times. When I started doing crunches I was in so much pain I could only do 10 or so. When I was nearing the end of my rehabilitation I was doing 300 on my back and 300 on my stomach. I did other exercizes too but I don’t want to go into too much detail here. In the end I guess what I’m saying is pretty simple. Rest, heat, stretch, exercize, ice, immobilize and and do it all very carefully. Have faith that if you surrender to the healing process that you will progress and for God sakes don’t give up! Good Surfin’, Rich
I’ve been going through the same shoulder proplems you are. I’ve heard pros and cons on the subacromial decompression also. I opted for physical therapy and it’s working well; good progress after 5 months. I would be interested to hear what special things you’ve done in your rehab that you feel is helping you the most. Thanks and aloha, tom
late last night I felt like a fool jumping on my fellow debater about terminology. Sorry . . … and I used to see pics of women completely contorted over . … and have worked on these bodies . … . so sad for me . … and I could always feel the pain of them . … but I also always could feel that the tissue would change. I would be the first so often back then, to give them drugs just to allow them to get thru some workouts and see how they could change the tissue . … sure they would be sore but the . . . and here’s an example . … the llama . … in Peru . … would walk over to the coca leaf and chew on it and it will dilate his bronchials to give him more tolerance to the altitude . . and it will release endorphins to cut out any pain derived from the exertion . … and it will do this HEALTHILY . … I mean really . … there is no recorded incident of terrible crack addiction to the coca leaf. Now this is off the subject but then again it isn’t. Unfortunately and this does not present a solution, but it is true . … .nature gave us pharmaceuticals to be able to take our “vehicles” shall I say, to the most amazing places . … and nature constantly does not want us to feel pain. The adrenals will help buffer a person (forgive the example but it is true and one that always at least for a second, used to comfort me) being tortured thank goodness, and allow the head to “go someplace else”. For at least a while. Believe me, I was straight A’s in nursing and all the med courses I could get my hands on, but the whole puritanical notion of feeling pain in this American pitch fork society - still so guiltily whipping everyone … it completely ignores the fine tuning that nature laid out for us in order to evolve to a much higher plane. I can still do the splits and the scorpion almost . … and when I tell people my age . .they … they blink . … but at the same time I would be judged as someone who pushes the envelope when it comes to … . … well . … it’s not relevant . … but I do know for a fact that each of us has our own specialized tolerance and adjustment … and I also know that each of us is our own most expert healer. There is no one, but no one who has felt “you” and your spine from the inside out, as you have. The idea that some guy who has read more books than you, might even have more knowledge than you, about your body . … it’s ridiculous. The intuitive powers of dogs to feel their masters across oceans . … the ability that dolphins have . … to COMPLETELY USE SEPARATELY their right and left hemispheres - one will be sleeping and thus drowning . … if the other side is not actually still swimming and coming up for air!!! The navy found that one out because of anti-sleep research being done so that a helicoptor pilot can actually fly from here and bomb Iraq and fly back without having to stop. Serious. Sad how we want to use the amazing facts we learn . … but that intuitive stuff that dogs have, the very same thing that we call women’s intuition about feeling something in danger to a loved one. Hey there is nothing esoteric or “psychic” about any of these things . … these are actual cognitive functions within probably our right hemisphere. These are actual abilities I am convinced we - as supposedly the most evolved brain-wise creature . … all have. And that is just the tip . … so when it comes to the ability of the brain, which again is still just tissue … I mean get that . … the truth is . … a skull with more brain tissue . … that is heavier … is actually capable of more thought processes . … mechanically speaking yes … the brain is a tangible tissue organism that emits glandular secretions . … neurohormonal secretions of the most strong and sometimes devastating magnitude … the adrenals ability to cut down on pain, send circulation to the most superficial tissue covering our joints, allows bodies to do amazing things . … I have always used myself sort of as a guinae pig . … and in many ways it has worked … and in many ways I have and will pay for. But when it comes to being cautious . … well I guess in this area I just can’t do it. And in other areas of life I am totally weak. But when it comes to pushing the body - the more you give it … the more it likes and takes. St. Francis of Assisi . … said . … “My body, brother donkey.” Complete respect for his very very hard-working friend. We should all step aside, look objectively at our vehicles and just IMAGINE what they are capable of . … and facilitate that happening. Too esoteric sounding . … but if someone is stuck at a place in their body . … I say try anything and everything to get beyond the stuck. Not surgery . … but anything else that eventually can leave the body without damaging it. But you see medical people … they are archaically stuck into the tangible aspect of the reality of diagnosis . … perfect example is we have the world’s most expensive podiatrist examining Shaq O Neal’s toe. This is an athlete who has a top city’s legacy riding on his back and so you can be damn sure they have gotten the “world’s best” . … well excuse me . … but this dick brain is recommending surgery. I know exactly what is wrong with Shaq’s toe, his foot and the ligaments and nerves extending upwards from that toe . … .and the minute that guy cuts … well Shaq has then got a few less options in the future. And this guy is supposedly the best. He’s a moron. If he cuts, he’s a moron. I have the law of physics behind me, I have 25 years of feelings for a millions hours easily (because I have been obsessed with feeling the muscles of the human body - totally obsessed with it - until I understood where the stress was coming from … where was the torgue coming from.) I am getting somewhere here, unfortunately I am . … the round story teller. Not the straight line … the chinese said a thousand years ago . … it all starts in the feet. Yeah yeah I heard that for 20 years . … and did my head nodding about acupressure and “reflexology” . … any other term just to scare people off when they all mean the same thing - pressure into the meridians of the body, and send circulation going along that meridien. To unplug. Like yoga. Basis there is hold the posture and damn the circulation up to that area for at least 20 seconds . … concentrating completely on strength, flexibility and balance … hold the sucker of a posture til you are sweating big time . . . and about to break . … release! and you have a damn flow of blood break loose and plunge through that area of organs!.. Genius … that is exactly the basis way back to yoga … that and the contraction of the spine in an arched position . … and then the same length of time in a rounded over and stretched position. Fascinating to me the wisdom there that thought . … . well anyway. The feet … your back problems are directly related to your feet. I now got it. It took me 20 years to feel it and understand it but now within seconds of touching someone I can feel it. And diagram it out and put pressure on the spots and prove exactly the reality of what I am saying. We bind and mutate our feet when we are young … in this particular society … the displacement of your knee joints - up to your hip joints . … and then the tugging on that sacral lumbar vertebrae … and tugging more and more from the impact of easily on men, a weight of 200 from ground up . … through your feet into your body . … that’s where it all comes from … your spine is being pulled out of alignment … by the impact of your feet via shoes and via what surface they are resonating off from. … Make it easy? Try and move both baby toes … away from the feet completely, I mean really demand some intricate movements from your babie toes. Okay now note which one had less control, . … … I am drifting … too tired … not making sense . … but I could show you. make a note of which one you didn’t really connect with … that the body on that side - that side with that foot … that doesn’t really feel some of the jobs it does . … that’s your bad side … that will be your bad side as you age. Start now making sure you connect with the outside of both feet. Ida Rolf said “look below - then something about the feet.” She had her finger on it . … that’s why she designed the Earth Shoes. … ugly but made sense to what she wanted to achieve. Am drifting again … … but it is the outside of that foot . … the one I just described - the outside of that foot up to the toes . … that is the area you can use help with . … that’s is the area that if you imagine you were real connected with … if you were . … and had been for a while, that area would have not been tugged out from misalignment and shortening of muscle tissue. If it was even tugged out. Not making sense … Peaman … isn’t one side worse in your back? Isn’t it . … or not … I will go someplace constructive with this a bit later if you answer and I can come back when not falling asleep . … grace to you . … hey Im female … a toughie . … in the body … unfortunately not elsewhere … . but “feeling” everything . … that’s my knack … am right about how the body “feels”. Cancer the crab . … . they “feel” the most … it’s true … alot of people good with the body … are Cancers. Now that sounds esoteric … and fluff . … but hey … mathematically speaking where the planets were - when you were born … - it’s a univeral math equation and you can be sure it means something … everything means something. … the body is way way way too intelligent a machine for it to manifest anything on the outside . … that isn’t saying to us … “hey dork … look here … no you don’t need that machine dumbo … just look here at what is happening … yeah that’s right … I told you” Anyway grace to you where it is being tugged on your spine . … and I can trace it down and make you feel it completely and see exactly how wise the body is … to pull this gentlehim … .whatever …
wife knows . … . . probably knows most . … but if you ever hit LA - when it comes to shoulders. … boy oh boy I know em . … it’s your neck too you know … is it your right or your left . … I can tell you exactly what’s wrong according to what side … and I can tell you where it goes and how to change it … serious … I sound like an ass sometimes … but I know . … and yeah Coral . … I’m piping up . … because I get on this board looking for my guy’s words and he isn’t here . … but he is a surfer . … and then I read other surfer’s words . … and don’t like the idea of pain being felt - in muscles that want to surf. First boyfriend ever . … became world champ. Starting at 15 I have watched alot of surfers. . … that’s my only motivation. Your shoulder I can trace up to your head … and down to your foot . … and show you or tell you a different way to start holding it … to change it. You may have started that already . … don’t doubt that someone has already enlightened you … but free advice here … if you want
Hope your shoulder gets well. My son is fighting the same battle. Yikes! He can’t even surf right now. Mostly he tries not to raise his arm while still exercising his shoulder. It’s getting better, but v-e-r-y slowly. I can see the pacific So hemi push on the Navy WAM. Looks great! I live in Houston, waiting for something fron S to SE. These tropical waves keep coming from the East making slop. Heading for Hi in a few weeks. Hoping for some South then.
wife knows . … . . probably knows most . … but if you ever hit LA - > when it comes to shoulders. … boy oh boy I know em . … it’s your > neck too you know … is it your right or your left . … I can tell you > exactly what’s wrong according to what side … and I can tell you where > it goes and how to change it … serious … I sound like an ass > sometimes … but I know . … and yeah Coral . … I’m piping up . … > because I get on this board looking for my guy’s words and he isn’t here . > … but he is a surfer . … and then I read other surfer’s words . … and > don’t like the idea of pain being felt - in muscles that want to surf. > First boyfriend ever . … became world champ. Starting at 15 I have > watched alot of surfers. . … that’s my only motivation. Your shoulder I > can trace up to your head … and down to your foot . … and show you or > tell you a different way to start holding it … to change it. You may > have started that already . … don’t doubt that someone has already > enlightened you … but free advice here … if you want You sound like the Jim Phillps of bodywork. Me , ME , MEEE
I’ve been going through the same shoulder proplems you are. I’ve heard > pros and cons on the subacromial decompression also. I opted for physical > therapy and it’s working well; good progress after 5 months. I would be > interested to hear what special things you’ve done in your rehab that you > feel is helping you the most.>>> Thanks and aloha, tom Hi Tom, I could write a book about my friggin’ shoulders. But I give you the “short” story. Alot of this stuff you probably already know. All started because of weight lifting creating muscle imbalance in my shoulders pulling my arms forward in the socket causing “impingment”. I went to PT and that helped but went back to lifting again (stupid)and created a “chronic” condition. Bursitis with bicept tendonitis. Symptoms: Dull ache on the outside front part of my shoulder (mostly right shoulder) which occurs AFTER I exercise (surfing,swimming). Initiall, never had a problem during exercising, no pain, which was part of the problem since I couldn’t tell if I was aggravating my shoulder while paddling. My shoulders got to the point where I couldn’t do any repetitive motions(even waxing my surfboard caused problems) Seems my shoulder bursa’s have reached a stage of “fibrosis” which means they have thickened causing even more pinching. Rehab: Doing all the standard rotator cuff excercises (internal/external rotation w/rubber band) Scapula exercises (shrugs= straight and inclined)horizontal flys and lots of stretching. I found I was actually stretching too much, intensity wise, and learned to do gentle stretching. Started swimming again doing about 1000 yard every other day. Shoulder handle it well unless I screw up. What I mean is your stroke mechanics got to be perfect or you’ll aggravate your shoulder. The same with paddling. OR I push too hard and strain it. Swimming is good because it works your “ROM” and strengthens the shoulder without too much loading but its a fine line betwee “enough” and “too much”. This has helped my paddling since I believe swimming is harder on shoulder than paddling because you don’t extend straight over head as in swimming. Unless you paddle head down,which you shouldn’t. My shoulders are ALWAYS a little sore the next day but if they are really sore I hit up the old Ibprofen for a couple of days (800mg, 2x day)and that helps alot. On days I surf ( 2-3 x week) I take 600 mg a few hours before. If my shoulders start to hurt constantly while paddling. I stop. Occassional “tweek” seems to be ok. Swimming seems to be helping the most but as I said in my initial post, “I make two steps foward and on step back” in my inprovement. It’s gonna take along time for my shoulders to get back to normal. Good luck. Feel free ask me about any of this, Gary
wife knows . … . . probably knows most . … but if you ever hit LA - > when it comes to shoulders. … boy oh boy I know em . … it’s your > neck too you know … is it your right or your left . … I can tell you > exactly what’s wrong according to what side … and I can tell you where > it goes and how to change it … serious … I sound like an ass > sometimes … but I know . … and yeah Coral . … I’m piping up . … > because I get on this board looking for my guy’s words and he isn’t here . > … but he is a surfer . … and then I read other surfer’s words . … and > don’t like the idea of pain being felt - in muscles that want to surf. > First boyfriend ever . … became world champ. Starting at 15 I have > watched alot of surfers. . … that’s my only motivation. Your shoulder I > can trace up to your head … and down to your foot . … and show you or > tell you a different way to start holding it … to change it. You may > have started that already . … don’t doubt that someone has already > enlightened you … but free advice here … if you want Yeah, my wife has pointed out that my posture sucks( I slump over too much) and part of my problem comes from my neck because of it. This explains why both shoulders give me grief. What’s interesting is my shoulders give me the most trouble when I’m sitting, which I do most of the day at work. Bad posture again. Things she has me working on: Pelvic tilt, head back (pull chin in), shoulders back. See my response to “TOM” Any suggestions would be appreciated.
after reading everyone, - including eh harsh and cold truth of John Mellor’s. And man I do know that part, sure sometimes I sound like some fairy, let your mind overcome the physical, pollyanna - but hey . … as far back as 15 . a guy who was built as great as my world champ (Rolf Aurness . … who was hot way ahead of his time, was zigzagging on waves and took it down to the shortest board he could back then, developed a triple fin after he won the contest over Nat Young in Australia, came back and tried to promote it … for a guy of 6’4" for him to have surfed as fast and as radical as he did, he was an amazing athlete. And talk about starting on longboards, shhhhh his dad was so big that Rolf started on these 12 footers at San Clemente - his Dad was gunsmoke - Rolf had 44 inch shoulders in HIGHSCHOOL - now sure . … I’m a female . … but let me tell you _ I started at 15 working on 44 inch shoulders and I have been doing it, the hard way - since then. Im an old bag now . … NOT - I gulp after reading everyone’s stuff, and yet I still got to stand up and say . … I know more than everyone here, about where the misalignment starts. Hands down, nobody has been more obsessed with bodies and athletes and muscles . than me. No kids, no responsibilities, plenty dysfunctional - have had alot of time in this area. Worked on some people for 18 years straight . … weekly. And plenty others for 10 years straight, weekly. That is like having your own laboratory in your back yard, watching, measuring - seeing the aging process. . . mostly feeling it. I am not your typical therapist. I always spent and still do - all the time I needed on bodies. The more legal, authentic, PROFESSIONAL, insurance covered - I ever worked . … was about 5 minutes. Because the minute I went in that direction, I couldn’t work as much as I needed, for as long as I needed - in order to figure out what I was trying to figure out. Not a recommendation against PT’s or chiropractors or any of them. And like I said, someplace else, I entered medical classes, straight A’s in all the classes, even the chem classes for a 40 yr old. Wasn’t easy. Just found out more to back up what I had been studying. 25 years plus of touching bodies, shoving them is more like it. Going so deep, into muscle insertions, the whole time I am dancing, yoga, (am Bikram Choudhury’s bodyworker - started with him 20 years ago before he hit so big - hot yoga - taught me huge stuff about muscle insertions - experimented always on myself - long distance running, biking, swimming, . . back to dancing, triple turns - jumps leaps . … been working on trying to do the scorpion for 20 years and instead of being farther from my head, my toes are closer. That’s standing on your forearms and your back straight up in the air, with your feet trying to contract round towards your head and sting yourself. Believe me, you really FEEL the spinal column when you do these things yourself for 30 years, as well as work out all day long on bodies doing these things. Worked on olympic athletes, paraplegics - oh yeah . … when 15, the guy who surfed with Rolf … built the same … beautiful - not as wide shoulders, driving drunk in his van, steering wheel compresses spinal column for too long - lost his legs … so one goes off and becomes world champ and the other goes off and lives in an airplane hanger paralyzed . … I know the cold realities of how vulnerable the body can be - I totally jammed on that body for hundreds of hours … naively believing I could push it into standing up. Well he pushed himself into standing up almost. Anyway I am not a kook. the muscle insertions minutely and delicately and finely - traverse the full length of the body. I mean not in the anatomy books they don’t, but they do in function. They all insert into each other, and they go COMPLETELY AROUND the whole frame. THERE IS NOT ONE PLACE ON YOUR BODY THAT IS NOT CONTRIBUTING AND BEING A RESULT OF - ANOTHER PLACE. My point . . is - well John Mellor sort of is right, but then again John, evidence is very very very strong these days that the surgeries I mentioned, spinal laminectomys, knee, and maybe not as much, some successes in hip - but often not - evidence is very strong … that these DON’t work. NO pain relief, and no more movement. So I do say, they will look back on us and with mouths open, say “Can you believe . … they actually cut into the body.” Because it is all there, the capsule (forgive the metaphysical sound of that) is integrated and able to regenerate itself . . .but it has to have a chance. It has to be looked at from the whole. From my perspective there are really only two distinct characteristics about the body . … that might be integrated in . … let’s say . … another way. But still NOT separate. That’s the right versus the left and vice versa. Sounds stupid sorry. So shoulders. . … it ain’t just shoulders guys . … and I have big enough ones and started on weights also when I was 17 … You wife way smart about posture BUT way wrong about tucking the chin. Can stand toe to toe with her and prove it. Shoot . … I am wordy . . .sorry. But this last couple years I have finalized and really proven to myself everything I was trying to figure out, and sure it is no final solution on anyone . . unless they do the work . … but I have done the work - like I said I experiment hard on myself . … anyone it works … it makes sense and it prolongs and nurtures the ideal length of your body . … the way is ideally was designed. And unfortunately, because I’m no genius, unfortunately it took me a long time to figure it out, … 25 years of feeling, and I started with the idea that it all had to start from above … because I was a dancer. But uh uh . … if I just had one of you . … I could show you what I mean … if I had a graphics program here - any of you guys who know physics would see it. A man told me he thought it was a paradigm (wrong spelling) - and that is what it is . … sort of. Because it is the bigger picture of where all the insertions get taken to, so that by the time you are 20, if you are anything at all typical in the area of aggressive sports . … which is changing thank goodness . … more guys into stretching which is I will admit basically 90% of it - so yeah it is simple … but then again not THAT simple. Wouldn’t have taken me so long if it were that simple. Have to get off . … but SG . … and my respects to your wife - know she has probably a whole lot of stuff I don’t know . … but chin tucked … no. Emphatically NO. I am looking up right now at a computer screen about 6 inches almost . … above my neck … with only the hardest surface underneath the base of my spine and not back support and no side support. Arched from the tail bone to the top of my skull with my jaw trying to extend out as far as possible and yet be realistic. Your right shoulder you guys . … is directly related to the tiny insertions and shortening that not only makes up the platysma muscle there in front, that inserts into your pecs and also way up high into your chin almost . … but it’s also related to the muscles up high underneath your armpit . … but really really really really related to your forearms. And from there . … being a bit simplistic here, but from there I am going to jump to your outside baby toe, on the right. It isn’t hard what I am saying . … but you can not start to stretch any one place . … and think that’s it . … and I am not saying you have to be so radically “turned out” - but yes in perspective to how much each of you CAN STRETCH, you HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE WHOLE . … well let’s call it a meridian, or a longitudinal pathway . … it fits right in with the whole eastern 14 shiatsu meridian concept, acupunture, acupressure, reflexology . … it bounces right off of that concept and add even more to it that makes sense. I am bored with myself too, sorry guys … but it still makes sense and it stil works. Follow the line of where on your shoulder it is the worse - imagine taking the tissue of that line - from the inside of your body and turning it OUT - all the way down to the outside toes and all the way up and over the skull and then back around again. Like a complete circle longitudinally over your body. If you look at the whole meridian … the possibility of the tissue being able to turn out . … and stretch … if it is short of 93 years old, I can hands down tell you it WILL TuRN out. Sure I use 8 heating pads and about 4 microwaveable ones,. . . just as soon stick a person into the microwave, ask them to leave me with their dress for about 4 hours and tell them to pick it up then, yeah I need the heat to sweat the muscle down a bit . … get them depleted a bit, and then get in … no I never studied rolfing … I made up my own . … but everything I have said so far is easy … any of you by now if you are at all interested should have noticed I kept on saying one thing though. That is the bug. That is the hard part. But it can change. Let me just ask you . … any of you . … if your fingers on your hands . … looked anything at all like your toes and your feet . … I mean really look at your feet - the color of the sole - the change in the color of the sole . … the change in the tissue pliability over the width of your feet . … the toes . … come on guys . … really disect those suckers. Now tell me . … if any of you had your fingers and your hands start doing what your toes have done . … wouldn’t you have possibly said about 10 years ago easily . … "hey doc . … my outside hand is becoming a bit shortened over and less circulated and I can’t move it so finely and individually anymore … and as a matter of fact … those 3 suckers on the outside . … they’re red … they’re hard … and they’re hammered over . … and the heel on the outside . … up to the toes … is more hard in the tissue. And more red in color … . … Hey it’s just your feet … guys … no biggie … huh … If your hands had even taken on half of what your feet had to succumb to . … your arms would not be the way they are . … . Its a mutation guys … and it is directly responsible for your shoulders. … and it is the taller people on the planet who are the worse off. And that in general … is guys. I haven’t said what I really need to say . … but it’s too long. … but I know what I am talking about. And you can radically change your shoulders if you take this big picture and just tweak it a bit. Probably no one is reading this by now, don’t blame you … it’s boring for me too . … but believe me . … it’s right. All I need is just one of you … any guinae pigs up for it . … ??? maybe then he would back me up . … well I can finish what I recommend . … if anyone is interested I will type out some more. And sorry if it is just boring sounding crap. Believe me, I am not such an ass as to think this is the most interesting subject matter to everyone. Unfortunately for me it sort of has been.
blows me away . … how can you say that about your son and not question what you’re saying ??? Doesn’t raise his arm … well okay … but like the shoulder is a rotating joint … it has to be raised . … it has to be circular … I will bet the reason he can not raise his shoulder without it hurting him … is his front plank is contracted down and shortened forward. His back muscles have started to come up and over from behind and taken over the neck and shoulder area. By that I mean the traps. The diminishment of the deltoids has been exasperated by the traps and the shoulder is completely out of alignment (the ideal alignment I am talking about, not the medical assessment of alignment - the ideal alignment is to make sure those traps are back and down, the front neck panel is completely turned out and elongated . … the deltoid is the muscle then that gets pumped up . … .NOT the traps. The deltoid is turned out and cushioning and supporting and stretching the nerves coming from underneath the jaw as well as the ones from the neck and have to make it over the shoulder down to the hands. He is younger, doing weights . … wants his forearms and biceps big right??? So much easier to pump up those suckers . … they show up a lot more too when we flex. He has got a too tight of a dress in front, with the nerves and the ligaments in front being tweaked and pulled out of alignment . … because the muscles in front are not even securing the nerves in their proper place. That’s because the Trapezius muscles have been used by him more. With his head tucked down. and the other end is also grabbing the nerves and ligaments in front and wrapping them around like a barber shop pole, towards the inside of his arm. So we got him being pulled and contracted forward, from above (the traps). … and then from the side (the biceps and forearms) - we have no front muscles turning him out and arching him to be turned out . … hey if mother nature wanted us to age forward bending , , she would have put the floating ribs in back!!! They’re in front … so you can expand and hyperextend the ribs out and arch the lower back and since the spinal column, one end mirrors the other. like an electrical circuit. . one end is a direct result of the other. the bottom is arched and turned out and that is a contracted spinal muscle which is prepared and supported by the gluts when they are arched (NOT when the gluts are tucked down and flat like doctors said for so many years but yes arched like when you were a cocky little kid and you walked around with your chest out and your butt out - so the end of that is NOT ONLY IS THE TAIL BONE ARCHED . … BUT THE NECK IS TOO - that way the whole spinal column is contracted and ready for action. And being strengthened. That way the neck is elongated in front and the hyperextended rib cage is allowing the floating ribs to expand, and the bronchials and heart muscle have enough space then . . . and on top of all of this … the chest is expanded up and out, like exactly mens bodies were designed to be shaped. The v. . . the upside down triangle . … . … hey all that trap development and bicep development totally diminishes that … then add in 300 stomach crunches . . and we have that dress drawn up real short in front, shoulder width on the man comes in. … and don’t men these days seems to get more narrow shoulders as they age . …? remember all those small movements we do . . with the forearms . … no more hanging out the laundry on the clothes lines, no more chopping with the ax of wood, no more riding the reigns of the horse but instead clasping onto the steering wheel, the mouse of the computer … where is the big frame held up . … with all the tiny muscles doing the contraction. No if your son can not raise his shoulder without it hurting, he has already started the process too young. not good. and you’re too trippy sounding to not understand it makes sense what I am saying. Tell him to back off of the front weight work, he is going to have to pull up and out those front panel muscles and lay down those in the back that have him crunched forward. I can show easy how it’s done. Anyway I will bet that is it. Come across hundred of young developing guys and the reason why they have shoulder bursitis by age 19. makes sense … sorry too wordy again
me, I agree completely. I’ve tried to send my son down the therapy/balance path to recovery, but he obviously thinks it’s too old and cosmic. My son is all grown up and doesn’t seem to think I have control over him. 
He’s been to see the knife. We discussed it and I “helped” him weigh surgery against self recovery. I consider myself (and him) very fortunate not to have some butcher slicing on him. My influence is limited to gentle suggestions. Anything more would be counter productive. …still applying pressure.
he’s got a real intelligent cool dad who cares … . man the guy is in the 1% of the world . … sorry . … not a biggie … I do keep things in perspective . … like I said though … no kids allows one to be a bit selfish … glad some cool people are having em . … I mean thank god some cool people are having em . … that’s the only thing that matters