Major delam on brand new epoxy SUP

General Discussion
1

Ok here’s a challenging repair, I’ve just recieved a huge 11’ Epoxy Stand up board. Virtually the entire bottom has delamed. I’m reluctant to try the old “drill and fill” technique because of the amount of extra or stretched glass, yet I hate to start cutting long relief cut to get the foam to reattach. If I inject and weight the outer glass down I may end up with a very wavvy bottom contour and voids unfilled.

Has anyone tackeled a massive delam like this and been able to retain the new look without major invasive cutting?

 

Thanks,

B.Kahuna 

I can add photos if the above explaination leaves you lacking a good sense of the problem. 

2

3

BKahuna:

 

I had the same problem on a 11’ SUP - Epoxy.

Laying deck down on the dock in Newport in the warm sun with the vent plug tight the whole bottom bubbled (Delamed).

Now I grind-ed the bubble glass off and exposed the foam.

Fill the holes with Micro Balloons.

Sand flat.

Fiberglass Patch.

Hotcoat.

Sand.

Clear Acrylic.

Scotch Brite.

There no quick short cut.

Remove the cancer.

Keep it water tight.

I should have took pictures.

Kind regards,

surfding

 

4

if it most of the bottom I would srip the whole bottom and reglass

5

Listen to Surfding… He  nailed it!    Big time…

That being said… You mentioned  “Vertually the entire bottom has delaminated…”

Oddly enough, this is probably the best thing that could of happened…

On smaller de-lams. you’d have  to “cut out the cancer”  patch the hole, try to feather in the patch , try to match the paint, wonder if you took out enough of the bad de-laminated glass  etc… You get my drift…

But in your case, It would be probably easier and wiser to cut off the whole bottom glass right up to the rail tuck perimeter and re glass the entire bottom lapping up onto the rails… I wouldn’t inject resin under the glass…Go   INVaSiVe!!      And start de-skinning  (or is it skinning)  the bottom…  If it were a Beaver it would be skinning… ANywAy…You’ll probably be surprized that the whole botton sheet peeled off that easily…

Pictures would help, but this is my opinion on what you’re describing…

You might not want or have the money to do an entire bottom glass replacement and in that case I’d say  "toss it in the trash … Or re-shape  it into something else…

Large eps (assuming it was eps) cored boards of that cubic area  NEED a vent,  be it Goretex or manual…   If yours doesn’t have a vent that issue has to be addressed as well or the problem may arise again…

My suggestion may be too radical,  and is definately NOT based on personal experience…

 YoU could also cut it up into multiple cross sections as suggested above (paddle included)  lol…  And… I thought I was harsh…lol…

 

   493 or 8 and counting… Don’t have my reading glasses handy…

6

Fixed many of these which were returned under warranty and then resold.  As long as the foam didn’t melt, you can do this:   Mark outline with tape and then cut out delam glass using a diamond wheel in a dremel tool.  Feather the cut edges of the outline (watch cutting into the foam), and prep sand 2" around opening.  Fill in the opening with 2-3 layers of 8 oz cloth, overlapping one layer on the feathered edges, hotcoat and sand.  This step should bring it up to the level of the original glass.  Using a filler to do this results in a lot more weight and will likely crack later.  Once this is done, overglass with 6 oz  cloth 4"+ larger than the opening.   Finishing depends on the type of SUP:  If it’s a painted import, just repaint.  If it’s pigmented or a sprayed blank, you can color the over glass.  Another option is to use a fabric to hide the repair under the overglass layer.  Still another is to acrylic paint it under the overglass (let it dry for several days).  This is a lot of work and costly in materials, I was getting average of $400 each for these repairs 5 years ago.  If it’s a cheap import, might be best to buy another one.

7

Thanks guys , well thought out replys. I tested a small managable area usign drill and fillm inclined the board etc. The resulsts are horendous, evidently the glass was stretched when the delam occured now I got the equvilent of a fat lady that has lost a lot of weight, too much skin! Yikes, even though I clamped, weighted and coerced the glass to lay flat, I now have a lumpy bumpy mess. I think it’s time for the sawz-all, per the 1st recomendation.

Any other ideas short of stripping the entire bottom and reglassing? Better yet… anyone volunteer to call the customer and give em the bad news, the board is trashed. Good news being, One less Brand new epoxy importin the water to grace our line ups.  

Now I have to hope the owner will pay me for better than a 1.5 gts of epoxy/ hardner, 8hrs, twenty patches on a board that remains junk. Oh Well I tried.

 

8

take your sander and sand around the bottom edge till your allmost through it then a sharp knife will cut through it the rest of the way.

angle grinder and a thin fibre blade to cut arount the box/s

peel that sucker off

then feather the outer edge and reglass

frikin simple!

add up the material costs before starting and see if its feesable

 

you can do it!

9

I’ve got 2 EPS SUPs, a 12’ NSP touring beast and a 9’0’’ McTavish, neither of them have vents, so you think they are best kept out of the sun?  Not many cars they fit into so I can’t see that being a problem haha!!

10

Some advise on the repair business;  never accept anything that you haven’t done successfully before.  If you want to experiment, use your own boards.   Your labor and materials (used and unused) are on your dime.  If you didn’t fix it, the customer really doesn’t owe you anything.  I’ve done my share of fixing other’s incorrect repairs, often the customer cheaps out and tries a DIY or goes to a guy who way undercharges and doesn’t know what he’s doing.   In the end, its always a bad deal for everyone involved.   

11

I re-skin two EPS boards, one i do with crap EPS, i cut skin along tuck and under edge and glue a wood balsa skin with expand PU glue and vacuum pump then lam. Second was and awali “crapy chinese surfboards” (it’s write from australia on this board  LOL). Cut the skin in same way then fill with 6oz lam thick in epoxy microbalon mix, sand flat and lam clear.

Sorry for my frenglish

12

Pete C thanks for the repair advice, I too see and fix botched repairs constantly, that’s why people come to me, I do quality work, this isn’t my first rodeo. Repaired tons of delams over the yrs. Technique varies depanding of the situation, I knew the options / possibilities prior to firing up the grinder, just imagined a better result.Regarding not tackling anything I hadn’t done successfully prior, just like my first fin job decades ago, I’m not afraid to tackle anyting made of resin.

Yeah this job is a mess, I tried an “easy” (if you can call 40+ drills and fills on 6" centers easy) fix hopeing to reattach the skin to the core. But the wavy bottom is beyond hope. I didn’t realize the substrate was unevenly compressed, there was no way to know unless I cutt the entire off and reglassed (hind sight is under rated)

There is a back story in my defense, the owner was given the range options and outcomes when we discussed job, now of course but I don’t feel right putting my hand out for 8 + hours of dink around time plus mtrls. But my frustration argues, This job falls in the " I did what we discussed catagory"  opinions…Yes, No, maybe?

13

I will concede not your first rodeo,congratulations 

on your blue ribbon in barrel racing.

This is obviously the first time you have 

entered the bull riding event to see the 

possibility of being raped by a white epoxy

bull after the bell…

 

nothing against owner board abuse or imported

sub standard design and workmanship as they are the 

cash cow of contemporary ding repair,but

the strip the bottom reality is an evolved awareness.

You indeed are evolving,asking for materials replacement

costs is not unreasonable and you eating the labor costs

of an unfortunate decision

to follow choices of an unsound repair plan

is also not unresonable. In fact down right gracious

and you would be praised by ding angels on high

an the size of tip the customer chose to include

would determine future relationship.

 

otherwise the relationship with this customer

could best be turned over to some other 

tech.In the big book these experiences are 

best called cheap tuition,some people pay big money

to go to college and universities you learned this lesson

for one tenth of a semester at an institute of higher learning.

 

…ambrose…

that comedian says…

YOU CAN"T FIX STUPID.

14

YEEEE HAWWW!!!

 

Let me jump into the POS EPS rodeo...YEEE HAWWWW!!!

Take a orbital sander. Sand the delam down to where the glass is very thin...very thin. But not through it.  Now cut a slit and fill with epoxy till it gushes out....or there about partner!  Shove the whole thing into the ol vac bag.  Bag it down till dry, then pull out, sand lightly and reglass with 6 oz.

 

What you got is a cosmetically sound fix, with out a bunch if surgery.  Getting the glass down thin will allow it to refit the area. Unless you loose some of that old epoxy and glass...it will never suck down tight.

 

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE  HAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!

Or you could drag it behind your car until it disapeared........poof gone!

15

40 holes injected with epoxy, well…

YEEE HAWWW - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcW_Ygs6hm0

 

16

Plan B , Now I’m just gonna buy this beast from the customer, spend my time and money to strip the bottom and do it right. Perhaps recoup my $ once it’s salvaged and I resell it.  My bad for trying a (not so) quick fix.

In my defense, large areas of the delam looked smooth and appearded to be easily restored to original contours when pressed back to the substrate. I built a great clamping jig  Thinking… If only I could only re bond the outer layer, and so the story goes. A total cluster F results.

Thanks for the input guys, I’m off to feed the live stock.

(In addition to a what not to attempt ding lesson also learned not to make bad cowboy analogizes on this site, whoa Nellie, tough crowd.)

17

[quote="$1"]

 I built a great clamping jig  

 

[/quote]

The Great Clamping Jig?   ....Did you mean the Great Clampett Gig ?