Yeah, this is probably covered somewhere in the archives, but sorting through the results for those keywords has resulted in lots of reading with no clear answer.
Here’s the question: I’m doing a color bottom and clear deck. Is the color on the cut lap going to get screwed up when I sand the lap/nose/tail flush, and if so how do I avoid/fix that?
I’ve only done clear or full single color before, so having a different color lap is new to me.
Thanks.
What I have done is inlay the clear deck (1st layer), then do the rail wrap with the 2nd deck layer. Another thing I’ve done is to press the colored edge down into the foam so the top kinda flushes out, and avoid sanding through the color to get it flush.
Yes, doing the inlay on the deck will give you a hard surface to cut and grind against. It is very lmpotant to get a clean cut on the lap. The relief cuts at the nose and tail have to be really good. Make sure that the cuts are such that they overlap and are squeegeed down flat as possible. You don’t want to see any visible deck because of a poor overlap of the tabs. You won’t be able to touch up and make it look right. If the tabs at the nose and tail are sloppy, you will have to grind them excessively. Excessive grinding can change or wash out your color.
I may not be reading this correctly, but are you guys saying to do the deck inlay as the first step and then go back and do the bottom lam?
But otherwise, I totally get what you’re saying about “just make it a really good lap” to avoid having to grind it down too much. I kind of figured that was the most obvious answer.
Thanks.
I dont think I’d do it that way (clear deck inlay) if you’re going for a clear deck. I also don’t think it’s critical to get your laps perfectly flush. Just knock down the worst of the high spots and try a clear baste - add a bit of clear laminating resin to the lap area to fill in the step where the lap ends. I usually brush the resin on and then run a light squeegee so it bridges the step. The resin will help fill everything in so you can lay your deck layers in this order… first layer to the apex or slightly around the rail, second layer wrap all the way to cutline. Freelap if using Silane treated fiberglass but stagger your laps the same way. Babysit your colored trim line and make sure you dab/massage a little extra resin if any bubbles start showing up along the step. More glass on rails = more better. (IMO)
regardless of full color or clear deck… this is proper technique
I am not saying deck first is “proper technique”. I am saying that it can be done the way Huck described if you are nervous about the lap. The tabs at the nose and tail are the critical part. Pay attention to the cuts Otis made in the video. If you cut a good lap the only cleanup will be at the nose and tail. No need to grind or sand anywhere else or baste either. The problem occurs when the tabs At nose and tail are sloppy. Oversanding or grinding will wash out your color. The problem with doing the deck first is that when you have completed and lapped the bottom, you add an extra step by doing the final deck lam. It is more difficult to laminate a second layer of cloth over a tacky first layer. Full tints are sometimes encapsulated in a second layer of 4 oz to protect the color work during sanding.
This is the tool I use for pressing the edges of the cut lap down, I got mine at a yard sale, but I think it might be a wallpaper installers tool.
Along with shorting the rails one layer of fiberglass, doing a deck inlay before laminating a colored bottom will be tricky masking. It’s always a bitch to get tape to lay perfectly flat and sealed over a layer of laminated fiberglass. Prepare for color bleed due to the weave texture/tape interface not completely sealing.
I’d be more inclined to do the bottom/rail lamination first, then a deck inlay if you must. At least any resin bleed will be clear over color and not noticeable. This method still leaves only a double vs triple rail wrap.
I really don’t like to give recommendations, because there are too many unknowns when talking to a stranger over an internet forum, so I just say what I’ve done in the past, or what has worked for me. You can take the info, use it if you find it useful, or ignore it if not. I’m not a pro or an expert, I have built a couple dozen boards, all for myself, and I don’t tend to try to meet any special protocol for how somebody else would do it, etc, I just try to find what works for me.
That said, I generally would glass the bottom first, and wrap the rails. Then the first layer of the deck. Then the second layer of the deck. I would want at least 2 layers on the deck and rails, and one layer on the bottom, plus a tail patch on the bottom. Some people want 3 layers of glass on the rails, its not mandatory for me. But then I also sometimes do as Gene Cooper did on his award winning board, and use glass in the fill coat (hot coat), he calls it a reinforced hot coat, and the glass is sacrificial, you will hit weave for sure, but not to worry, thats what its there for. Anyway, thats another story.
To be honest, I haven’t done a whole lot of boards with colored bottom and rails, and clear deck, so I don’t recall exactly what I did last time I had that situation. Maybe when I inset the deck it was when I was doing a swirl on the deck only. But it worked out fine, so I know it can work. And you can see from the pics I dug up, when I did do a clear deck I had to add a line at the rail, so you know my transition wasn’t super clean.
Anyway, I hope you have fun with your board, don’t take it too seriously, its just a water toy, and hope you get lots of great waves with it.
BTW I hope you are also following the Post Cure Cut Laps thread, good info there. Also, check out this board by Zackoopman posted in that thread, this is the guy to ask, look how clean that lap line is, no pinline either. Awesome!
Yeah, deck first seems weird to me.
Perhaps I didn’t make my question totally clear. There’s an old YouTube video from Fiberglass Hawaii of a guy doing a color bottom and clear deck. After the bottom lam he takes a grinder to knock down the nose and tail laps and it completely (to my eye) wrecks the color in those spots. They never show what happens after that. The video moves on to a completely different board after that. How does that not screw up the final color?
Here’s the video for reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_73JZE1B730&feature=share
Not that I plan on doing it, but I’ve heard about and always been curious about Gene’s extra clear layer over the color lam. What’s the process, if you don’t mind sharing.
Gene’s “reinforced hotcoat” is discussed in this video, at around 8:30 or 8:40
that is just the sanding making it look whitish, when wet out again its fine…those guys are masters…
A lot of advice thrown around. Here’s mine. Try to keep it simple when you’re on your first dozen boards or so. Make sure the laps are very well saturated with resin and get a good wrap with the squeegee. I hit the high spots at the tail and nose with sand paper and press the lap into the foam using a small paint roller similar to Hucks. Baste the lap line with clear like John said. Ready for the deck. Mike
Thanks, all. Feeling more ready to move out of the world of clear lams and try some different stuff.
Doing it as Huck said. My roller just has more square edges to push the very edge of the lap slightly into the foam:
Is he using sanding resin with that? If you don’t mind the weight this seems like a great idea.
Now you are getting a “handle” on what I have been trying to communicate.
