Dropping off a blank today(27 inches wide) Paipo in the works. Maybe it will be done in time.
Sounds like a great gathering!! Rename Pleasure Point to Pancake Point for the occasion!
Roger
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Norm, you just cut thru all the crud and asked the $20,000 question. I don’t know. Maybe, “a prophet is not without honor except in his own home”? George didn’t fare too well in America. It was the Aussies that embraced him. At that time, there was no kneelo community to accept or reject his ideas. Now there is. Your question is embarrassing.
When I started doing spoon builds (with great guidance from Dale) and posting them on the kneelo sites, I was sure everyone would jump on it. Why not? The esoteric information I would have given anything to get my hands on 30 yrs ago was all out there in the open for nothing. There was a rush of interest but with a couple of exceptions it ended there.
It’s hard to put a positive spin on apathy.
“They cost too much.” What, $400-500 to build? Even if you buy one from Romo at $1500-2000, how many guys haven’t invested more than that in their 4-5 board quivers?
“They need perfect surf.” No, they need good surf, the kind we see in FLORIDA 10-12 times a year, let alone CA or Aus.
“They don’t float.” That’s why God made UDT’s and wake-boarding vests.
“That was 40 years old.” As in “ahead of his time”?
“They’re single fins.” It’s a big flexible single fin on a big flexible board. That changes everything. The feeling is impossible to predict, defies description, very addictive, very worth exploring.
Surprisingly, the most stoked reaction I’ve seen was from Carl Olsen from the Sways community. He built one. He rides it. He appreciates the complexity of the concept and the degree of difficulty.
Some spoon guys have gotten cynical and turned their backs on mainstream kneeriding. I haven’t and won’t, but I am in a permanent state of shock. I sometimes wonder if this is the Columbus feeling: “Yo, the world is round, seriously…”
Did someone say Carl? lol… In my opinion as a standup surfer- there are a couple problems with spoons- first one is that they are hard to catch waves with- you have to be at a pretty empty spot to catch any real amount of waves. Standup surfers- all the way down to the biggest kooks on shortboards can paddle circles around you, really pulling down your wave count. Second of all the ratio of effort to reward when dealing with spoons, (finding someone to make one for you/making one, finding the right wave/waiting for when it is empty, paddling out/catching waves) is just too daunting for the average surfer. As for kneeriders- they may have more of an inclination to try it- but like it has been said over and over again- it’s a completely different sport… one with very few peers… sort of like a shortboarder that has a bunch of longboarder friends- it’s hard to relate. Anyway- I’ll be seeing you guys soon. -Carl
Carl, you’ve got good ears.
I’m looking forward to meeting you and sharing equipment. You definitely tackled the toughest project first. Edge boards are narrower and touchier, and the fin is much looser. We need to trade boards, even for 5 min.
Red, thanks for all the aloha. As far as choice of equipment being a lifestyle choice, Fitz vs GG, that’s got to be true to a certain extent, but in the case of spoons, I think when you start to feel what flex can do, the lifestyle fades into the background and the concept takes over. Personally, I wear shoes all the time, I don’t look cool, and my IQ’s probably not over 100. I’m in it for the feeling.
Tomway - thanks for the good wishes, craftsman. I’ll never forget your hollow wooden kneeboard build – http://www.ksusa.org/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=2127
9’er – Don’t worry, G2 knows. He has a lot of irons in the fire right now and may or may not make it. Too bad your Panama paradise is so far away. I almost feel sorry for you.
Josh, what kind of parents are these? If I was your dad I’d be sending you over. My folks let me go to the Islands for 3 wks when I was 15. Where are they? I need to talk to them.
"#12 - The fin is made of unidirectional roving, one-way strands; saturate, place in female mold with matching male insert as cover, and jack up a vehicle over it to squeeze out the excess resin.
#13 - Most of the flex is in the top 25% of the fin.
#14 - The trailing edge of the fin is finished with a 2-3 mm sharp flat along the entire length…"
hi Mark !
that’s interesting info , THANKS for that !!
I don’t know if it would be the same , but THIS one is off a 1969 Wilderness standup I have [yes it’s a hull bottom , and s-deck]…
[this one came from Rob Conneeley’s surf shop in bondi , originally …found at the rubbish dump here in perth , west australia , a few years back now !]
cheers
ben
North of The City, South of The Lost Coast...
I think I know the wave & the rider 
Friday was epic down there…
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OK, Greenough’s a good surfer but it’s the equipment, not the skills, that accounts for this freaky display of speed, g’s and projection. (frame grabs from Innermost Limits)
Great pictures, fascinating thread !
However, even though this is going to make a clanging noise, it has to be said: A picture does not display how fast the surfer is moving. . . if flex spoons are so fast can we have some video or pictures with figures please, so that we know what we are talking about ?
Enquiring minds need to know !
Thanks in advance.
Without putting too much pressure on ourselves, TB, we’re going to try and remedy that at this gathering. But the real purpose is just to get in the water every day. If we can do that, it’s a success.
In the meantime, you can try this (per Damien O):
Go to
http://www.elecard.com/download/index.php
Download the Elecard MPEG Player v 4.0.4 and install it.
Click on the link to the mpg files
http://www.eastpacsurf.com/Short2.mpg
Try to run it using the Elecard player.
This is supposed to work. If it doesn’t, or if it does and you want more, pick up State of S, Innermost Limits, or Children of the Sun. The footage is old but beautiful.
Or forget all that and just come to Santa Cruz.
Cool bananas, say no more, wink wink nudge nudge can’t wait ,make sure you record tracks though and take pictures of the conditions . . . just for those people who doubt eveything and cheat at golf.
.
Manowar, Thanks for the offer. Just got turned on to this thread by Ambrose. I live in SC and surf my mat at Steamers regularly. I have never even seen another mat in the water here. Not to mention any other classy Greenough-inspired devices. I ride a genuine custom Dale S. Neumatic. I will e-mail.
jd, it’s going to be great to meet you and see what kind of exotic mix we get in the water. Too bad Ambrose himself can’t make it–run was already after him to come.
DPerkins crashes fearlessly ahead. He heard Alex Kopps was back from visiting Greenough and working on a mat-spoon film, so he contacted him. Alex said good, just remind me when it gets close. Then he heard the Malloy bros. had one of the P Gross spoons, so bam, he sends an invitation thru Patagonia and gets an email back from Dan saying it sounds like fun and they might head up. Who’s next?
Romo might come up quietly for a few days too. This is his latest venture into perfection – 5’3" x 22", epoxy, 10 lbs.
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for those people who doubt eveything and cheat at golf
Therefore the accuracy of your GPS surfing speeds are doubtful and open to question.
i would love to be there, manowar, but distance prevents me obviously. should be pretty photogenic. i hope you can share some photos or film of it.
‘dudley perkins’ must be frothing.
Yeah, all of you that are going need to bring your cameras and take lots of pics for those of us that can’t make it. I’m beggin’ ya, man!
Manowar,
I’m going to try to make it up on Sunday. How do I find you all. Just look for all the kneeriders? Can you tell me what street you will be on? I think there’s going to be some surf! Mike
PD - Tom’s avatar should have been the tip-off – smoke and mirrors
OLDY - Sorry you can’t make it to the dance. And yes, Dudley’s stoke is off the hook for many reasons.
SS - OK, but we’re trying to do this without getting too self-conscious. The cameras are going to just have to try and keep up.
MIKE - I’ll pm you with my cell… or stick your head out the window and follow the hoots.
Finally, I hear the house has no furniture. We have to sleep on the floor. Mat men, your hour has truly come.
this is for jdbailiff
If you guys were real mat men you would all sleep on air mattress of course. A house with no furniture sounds rip for inflatable furniture and a compressor on wheels. Have a good time. Darren
I knew it… DPerkins is calling George. Anybody want to give up a bed?
coming soon: gg redirects, middle peak
PS. Darren, thanks for the aloha. You’re right, that’s a travel advantage of mats seldom mentioned. Dale should put it on his site as a selling point.
" I knew it… DPerkins is calling George."
hahahah I hope he is a good LISTENER.
I’ve been told that I talk a bit , but …couldn’t get a word in for probably twenty minutes.
Duds , please tape record the call, if you can , you will be overwhelmed with information , and will probably have forgotten half of it by the time you drag yourself away from the phone , if my call was anything to go by.
George Greenough , what a classic guy ! [I’m still amazed he would spend time talking to a clueless dufus like me !]. I so wish I could have taped the convo , because the amount of fin-making info he spoke was nearly overwhelming to me .
George , [if you ever visit ‘swaylocks’] …again , a BIG thank you for taking the time to talk to me , especially with your very busy life !
cheers
ben
Gotta admit since I started flexspoon.com(because there was so little info about Greenough spoons) I
have been surprised by the amount of interest.
MOW( manowar ) has been the most enthusiastic advocate for spreading the word. Hats off the him!
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So why are Greenough and his ideas brushed off by modern kneeboarders?
Norm, you just cut thru all the crud and asked the $20,000 question.
Haven’t standup surfers brushed off his ideas also, except for his fin designs and shorter boards
which revolutionized surfing?
BruceMcClellan gave the answer which also applies to modern surfing:
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No wonder George Greenough represents the exact opposite of what modern kneeboarding stands for:
He had no desire to incorporate surfboard designs into his kneeboards.
Wasn’t interested in doing the same moves.
Didn’t see surfing as a social or competitive activity.
Avoided organized comps like the plague.
Cared nothing about getting respect and exposure from standup surfing.
Cared even less about financial and emotional investment in the status quo.
“Nothing ventured, nothing gained!” George’s straight answer to “everybody’s waiting for someone else to make the first move.”
I’m with George on all the above points as well as the points below. Apparently some Georges think alike.
Carl has the best standup perspective:
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In my opinion as a standup surfer- there are a couple problems with spoons- first one is that they are hard to catch waves with- you have to be at a pretty empty spot to catch any real amount of waves. Standup surfers- all the way down to the biggest kooks on shortboards can paddle circles around you, really pulling down your wave count. Second of all the ratio of effort to reward when dealing with spoons, (finding someone to make one for you/making one, finding the right wave/waiting for when it is empty, paddling out/catching waves) is just too daunting for the average surfer. As for kneeriders- they may have more of an inclination to try it- but like it has been said over and over again- it’s a completely different sport… one with very few peers… sort of like a shortboarder that has a bunch of longboarder friends- it’s hard to relate.
All of the perceived limitations Carl mentions are the way it is and always has been for me. Of course in my warped world they are advantages and it is the kneeboarders and standup surfers who have limitations. I still surf alone at places they can’t.
Speed. 2 types of speed. Quantitative(measurable as in MPH) and Qualitative(what you feel).
As Greenough said
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“What constitutes good surfing ISN’T how it looks…but HOW IT FEELS”
Well the FEELING of speed when riding a flexspoon is tremendous. With only a 1/8" or less layer of flimsy, flexy fiberglass between your knees and the wave you actually feel the speed. You feel the board bending, twisting, morphing and actually rippling as water ripples under it.
The lower center of gravity and closeness to the water surface adds to the feeling of speed. Standup surfers, kneeboarders, sponge riders and even mat riders are all riding on a layer of insulating material that “insulates” them from many of the sensations of speed. An analogy:
Driving down PCH at 40 mph in a car there is little sensation of speed. In fact we all would perceive 40 mph as slow. The car has air-filled tires, rubber bushings, shocks, springs, insulation and probably sprung seats to insulate/isolate the driver and passangers from all perceptions of speed except the visual.
Drive down the same stretch of PCH in a go-kart and it’s a different experience. You FEEL every bump, line and crack in the road. You FEEL the vibrations of the motor. You hear loud noises(intake, exhaust, road noise, wind). Your butt is 1-2" off the pavement with only a thin sheet of aluminum(1/8") between you and the road.
Perception of speed - off the chart, no guage necessary and not achievable in a car.
The speed you feel when riding a spoon cannot be measured or observed by others. Ask any bodysurfers. They know the feeling. Come to think of it, bodysurfers may have the slowest measurable speed of all forms of surfing yet the HIGHEST perception and feeling of speed. It’s all in your perspective.
One of the things you learn as a flexspoon rider is that you are on your own. It’s different from other forms of surfing in almost every way. Everything is learned by figuring it out and doing it. No one to watch, copy or learn from.
Until now. It’s all due to manowar. Sounds too good to pass up.
