Thank you too, George, for bringing Mark and the rest of us together to share in the secrets that you, GG, and a few select others have been experiencing for many years. Without Mark, Dale Solomonson, and yourself, I would not be where I am with regards to waveriding. Very much looking forward to finally meeting everyone in Santa Cruz.
Jamie
also, your post is the clearest explanation and description of why we ride these ‘weird little glass things’ (as one OBX minigrom put it). nothing more needs be said on the subject of why.
I went to the popular kneeboarding forum and I’ve been reading through a bunch of their threads. A lot of the posters there seem to be seriously confused about their “identity”. They sneer at other types of surfers, especially standup surfing. But then they whine and argue among themselves about why the standup surf media doesnst give them the publicity they think they deserve! I wonder what George Greenouhg has to say about “modern kneerboarding”? I noticed he wasnt mentioned in their “Shapers corner” or even their “Legends” section! LOL
That kneeboarding forum exists to “promote” the sport of kneeboarding like it is a product. People that don’t care to promote the sport are called dinosaurs or worse. Needless to say there are many of us who could care less about the promotion of kneeboarding. I and the kneelos I see often could care less about promotion in mags and don’t whine about standup surfing. I stopped standup surfing because to me, kneeling is much more fun. I could care less about image. For most of us its about taking off late, setting a rail, and getting barreled off your ass.
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When I started doing spoon builds (with great guidance from Dale) and posting them on the kneelo sites, I was sure everyone would jump on it. Why not?
I know one guy who is starting to build one soon, and I plan to ASAP, just have to find a place to shape it. I will be contacting you for help if that is ok. I would love to ride a spoon, especially after seeing the spoon that Romo built right before that red one. It was pretty much the most beautiful piece of surfing equipment I have ever seen.
Hopefully I can make it there for the gathering, although I am still waiting for my mat from Dale. Sorry for the long post, but this thread got me to sign up after years of lurking.
Congratulations on coming out. I’d be stoked to help you with your spoon. If we’re lucky we could even have a spoon build during the gathering. Say your prayers.
G2, another short post! lol With this subject, who wants to stop?
The go-kart analogy was good.
I say thanks too for all your work hosting flexspoon, the only spoon site on the planet.
One thing: maybe canvas mats are insulated but the ones Dale makes are so sheer and guys ride them so underinflated that they let you feel everything. I hear the biggest problem is how to wipe the smile off your face.
PP area is my local break, which I primarily KB. But I do matt surf the beachbreaks and it would be a gas to get together with you guys. Two other local mattsters are Peter C, who I know, and a guy named Martin, who I’ve never met, that matt surfs the Point according to Dale S. There are probably a dozen or so local KB’ers who regularly surf the Point.
Dale has mentioned to me, several times, and I’ve found it to be true, that the fastest way to learn/improve on a mat is long clean point waves. Beachies you just don’t have time to set up and try things and see what is happening. Proably true on any surf craft but hey, let’s go surfing!!! I know spoons like points… See you there. We can all be sharkbait together.
Couldn’t agree with you more about point breaks being the optimum for learning the fine points of matt surfing but here in the Santa Cruz area on an average swell you will share ALL the points with 100 of your closest shortboard and longboarding buddies, meaning, you ain’t gonna get too many waves. The beaches south of town are wide open and during the spring the sandbars buildup making for great uncrowded peaks and tons of long, unridden waves. During the summer, after the bars disappear the beaches still offer relatively long uncrowded rides, definitely more agreeable than trying to catch waves in town during the summer doldrums when everybody and their brother is scratching for whatever waves there are.
Now, during big swells, town can be great since the crowd thins and there are waves all over the place. Then the points are inviting, IF you can make the swim out without getting trashed. I have swam out at the point on big days taking 1/2 hour to get to the lineup caught some waves and ended up almost down at Privates (about a mile) after getting caught inside. Hopefully, we will get a good swell in december but so far it’s not been very good.
Ron is the ONLY kneeboard shaper making spoons of the half dozen or so main men. He’s not only making them, he’s starting to push the envelope. He’s done a series of nice epoxy boards and is getting ready to try a poly-carbon combo on the next one–and stoked! In that sense, he’s outside the box but he also makes all the mainline foam designs. Check his website. Where Romo’s taken the most heat is not for his shaping but his attitude that competition and commercialism go directly against the spirit of the sport. Because of some blunt remarks he’s made, he’s become persona non grata with a few of the leaders. He could care less.
Hey Chip, on the subject of Greenough calls, I identified with a lot of what you said. I called him once about setting up a sweet series of ph. interviews with ksusa (which later fell through for no discernible reason). Dale had told him the call was coming. I missed him and had to leave a message on his machine. It was surreal hearing my secretary say the next day, “There’s somebody named George who wants to talk to you from Australia.” He goes at a pretty good clip, all right. He knows what he’s talking about. But I found he was a good listener too, at least that day he was. In the course of things, I asked whether he’d had any close encounters with whitey over there. He said once he’s pretty sure there was something in the water because the dolphins kind of came in and surrounded him, or that’s how it felt to him. I asked him if he knew where Ano Nuevo was no. of Santa Cruz. I was surprised he said he knew the place. So I told him my one good Ano story about the baby seal that comes flying out of the water right onto this guy’s board, scrambles up his back and just trembles. The guy of course freaks out, knocks the seal off, reflects on the meaning of this… and paddles in as fast as he can go! Sure enough, from the beach they see a shadow as big as the Bismarck sliding through the lineup. Greenough cracked up. Yeah man, surfing with dophins and seals is fun. But then he busted my chops for being a minister. He said a maid who’d died had left him a prayer book with a wooden cover and an engraved cross. “What can you tell me about that since you’re the big expert?” I’ll forgive him for that one. God only knows what Dale told him about me.
All in all, I found him to be friendly, open, stoked, good sense of humor, unguarded and sort of vulnerable. I can see why his friends are so protective of him.
MOW: that story about the baby seal and the submarine is hilarious. That would be a book, uh? Just pure stories and anecdotes of surf/shark stories. some of the funniest night i ever remember were/are having a beer with pals, and we all recollect and recount shark run-ins.
Gary, guess I should count my blessings! Haven’t been in SC much since mid 70’'s but my last trip down, early spring before I got my Neumatic and was riding the El Cheapo Intex, I got Sewer Peak at 4-6 foot faces and only about 8 friendly guys out. Totally glassy and clean. Got a ton of waves. Trip before that, maybe a year previous, surfed one of the beaches and got some pretty fun small lines which would have been all time on a mat. I was riding a KB and there wasn’t quite enough poop to really make it go but a mat would’ve been flying for sure.
Then the points are inviting, IF you can make the swim out without getting trashed.
Exactly. Gary & Dr S, how do you handle getting caught inside? Do you ever just inflate them once you’re out there – I’m serious. On Inflateable Dreams, I read something about a mat getting ripped out of someone’s hands at the Lane and just disappearing. (I know that one, same thing having happened to my very first kneeboard…) I think I also read something about going to the lengths of strengthening your grip with bean bags? It seems like if there’s a disadvantage, that’s it. As we all will find out, tho, being able to sleep on your equipment more than makes up for it. lol
9, who doesn’t have good shark stories? and the beer makes em better. 1967, Kaiser’s on the South Shore, sun’s going down, darkness closing in, when we hear a scream 50 yds away. I can still see the silhouette of the guy with his legs pulled up on his board and the dorsal of a big tiger silently going by. Gordy and I, deep down in the water on our kneeboards, go, Shit. We not only said it, we did it. That 1/4 mi. from the reef to the sand was the longest, darkest paddle of my 15-yr old life. Course the closer we got to the beach the harder we were laughing. What happened to dude I’d still like to know. Hopefully he’s telling it around a campfire somewhere.
MOW – so far the largest waves i’ve surfed my mat with were 8ft faces ( a point, and the same day a bomb-blasting beachbreak). holding on to the mat was no problem. But there have been times where we were going to surf a spot with decent sized waves off an island, and where if you lost your mat, you were going for a long swim over deep, murky water right off a big river, with no one around - and i’ve said to myself " do i really wanna have that ?", and opted for a board.
the only time i lost my mat was walking back out the launch off another point - big boulders all over - ‘walking’ out with those duckfeet on, stumbling, slipping – and i’m timing it so i can just jump into deep enough spot that i can kind of push/swim out. I jump…only to land on a rock that’s like just under the surface. i’m kinda stunned. Perfect timing too - cuz now here comes a wave to hammer me one - and without thinking i let the mat go. ( it didn’t pull out of my hand) but i think if i would’ve held onto it, it might have gotten damaged inthe turbulence (rocks and barnacles)
duckdiving takes some getting used to, but you start to develop technique. when i first started doing it, every time i’d duckdive i’d come up all discombobulated, trying to get back on the mat. (which isn’t as easy as you think, in the beginning). after a while you learn some tricks - and now, duck through waves and come out the back on yr mat kicking. but really you wanna surf a spot that has a channel.
You mind elaborating on this duckdiving technique some more. Here on the blessed east coast I get to surf are thumping beachbreaks(usually ankle high) which are pretty much channelless. If I can duck a wave just before it breaks i can penetrate and I’m fine, but I’m completely kooking in the whitewater, kinda looks like a wrestling move.
What would happen if I were to pull the plug on the mat quickly to duck a big wall of water?
Would the mat fill with water and end my session?
and I definitely want to know how you come out kicking…
also, for those waiting, I haven’t called GG yet, but I think I will at some point.
usually when i paddling out, i have my hands on front corners, arms extented so i’m hangin off the back. (seems to allow deep kicking better)
just before whitewater rolls me, holding the front corners, i kind of jump to the front of the mat and use the momentum to drive me and the mat down and under. At which point i then kinda use my elbows like clamshells to grip and hold the mat in position, so that when i come up, i’m on top of my mat. then just start kicking out again.
i ride my mat usually at this inflation: I can fold it in half, and it’s still supple.
i have never pulled the plug on my mat while in the water, cuz i know it’s gonna fill some. i’ve heard of guys deflating them and swimming out with it rolled up. only to have to huff it when in the line up. But if it’s that big, likely i’m gonna opt for a board.
another thing i’ve done, especially in beachbreak when i’m just getting hammered, is to do the “Otter”. I kick out on my back, cracking open abalone and scallops, while circling any chicks that may be in the water. they think it’s cute. ('cept my wife) really tho, i do kick out on my back and i hold one corner of my mat. all the while i’m kind of looking up at the sky and ahead a bit to see when it’s time to hold breath, ‘streamline’, and angle down through the turb, and at which time i hold the one corner with both hands. you don’t ever quite get past the turbulence this way, but cuz y’re more streamlined, you can keep composure and kick past losing less ground.
in smaller waves - saw whitewater up to about 3ft - i just ride over the top. (not so easily done on board)
most of these techs i’ve read right here on sways.
Soup hopping smaller stuff is easy. Lift front corners enough to aim near top where its mostly air and keep kicking…upandoveryougo. I duck like Jason with additioon of straighten arms as go under and “pull” mat deeper; straighten them towards ocean floor. Also, re-aim towards surface maybe earlier than you would on a board. The air will shift back to the nose from the tail and kinda pull you up behind the wave. If its more than couple feet overhead i.e. 8 foot faces, I’m not on a mat. Maybe a paipo or on the beach. At least so far. Channels are the best! I have paddled/swam out w/ mostlly deflated and huffed it once in the line-up but deflating in the impact zone while caught inside…sounds a bit sketchy. I sort of tried it once or twice but never seemed to have time to let out much air before the next wall o’ water came along.
So far I’ve only lost my grip a couple times and that was when riding and lost focus/did something stupid and accomplished instantaneous buckling and flipping off the mat while have flat handed pressure rather than grip of fabric. It would surely suck to have it disappear. Long wait for a replacement. One of these days I plan to order a back up and just keep it hanging on a large round PVC hanger in garage.
you know, unlike some of my other ‘prized possesions’, I hate to loan my mat.
one of the first times i hooked into some magic on my mat, we were staying on this house right on the break with some other friends of ours. there was this guy who was a friend of a friend who was also staying with us. From NJ, but not an ‘ocean-type’ at all. Well i’d get these long sandbar waves and could ride them nearly up the beach - just on and on. And frequently i’d see this guy standing in water up to his belly looking on aas i’m zipping by.
so after the sesh, i walk up to where my wife and these friends are camped out on the beach, and i’m going on about how much fun the mat was. ( up to this point most peeps thought i was nuts riding a mat) Den, out of the blue, the NJ guy says, ‘you mind if i go out and ride it?" . and i couldnt’ stop myself “…ok…are you a good swimmer?..” i said weakly. Mind you, it was a sandbar, but inside there’s barnacle-covered rocks, adn low tide shallow too. I could just imagine this guys riding whitewater right straight in over the rocks. dude i watched this guy paddle out. no, i nearly swam out with him. I was so kicking myself " why why? you shoulda just said no." It was a tortuous 15 minutes. finally he paddled in without catching a wave… gave me back my mat and fins.
back then it was like a 4-6 month wait for a new neumatic.
so now, unless it’s someone i’m 100% sure of with a lot of water sense and experience-- i won’t lend it. if it gets destroyed or lost by me - well that’s one thing. but someone else…i don’t even wanna think about it.
I bought two cheapie intex canvas mats just for that.
Somebody needs to take the bull by the horns, move up to Dale’s city, show up on his doorstep and say, “Here I am. I’ll be here tomorrow and every day after that… Show me what you do.” And better hurry before an Aussie gets there first and another American job gets outsourced. Personally, I nominate run or dudley due to age, skills and stoke.
Thanks for the technical advice, mat men. My brother will need it in the water when he trades you that for this.
