McCoy wide tails, do they work in bigger waves?

General Discussion
21
Quote:

big boards with wider tails are very difficult to crank up a good rail bottom turn, this is a fact

I just had the opposite experience the other day with an 15" tail, Vitelli turn style(no, not that extreme but the same feeling). I know for a fact that my regular thruster would never hold the rail through that turn, I’ve put it through more than it can hold a number of times. IMHO the must be more to a good bottom rail turns than tail width(or lack of it).

22
Quote:
Quote:

A guy that can surf thats 230 needs at least a 6’8’’ or a 7’

Solo- I disagree with that view. Are you in the 200 lb + category? I weigh in at 220 and get tired of hearing the “big guy tri” philosophy, that’s why I started shaping boards myself. I currently ride boards that range from 5’2" to 6’9", most with wide tails, and I can out paddle most short boarders on the smallest one.

23

reverb,

I think it’s difficult when no one posting board dims posts their own size. I don’t really know how you might gauge the surfing ability of those who’ve posted on this thread without many more specifics.

I like smaller boards too and it’s one of the reasons I like wide tails (and by wide I mean 14-17 inches). I have ridden “corky” boards that I couldn’t surf on a rail. And I’ve ridden boards that float/paddle well that can. I think it’s a fine balance that a great shaper strikes and my biggest interest in the next board I’m shaping will be to experiment with this balance, so any tips are appreciated.

And also, shorter isn’t ALWAYS better. There are no absolutes with surfboards. Check out Curran (not a big guy) at J-Bay on his 7-something. He doesn’t suck.

C

24

" big boards with wider tails are very difficult to crank up a good rail bottom turn, this is a fact

so a trained, big and strength person is needed "

REALLY? Dickie Moon, 1967…

Once you are “on edge” the water does not know how wide the tail is.

25
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:

A guy that can surf thats 230 needs at least a 6’8’’ or a 7’

Solo- I disagree with that view. Are you in the 200 lb + category? I weigh in at 220 and get tired of hearing the “big guy tri” philosophy, that’s why I started shaping boards myself. I currently ride boards that range from 5’2" to 6’9", most with wide tails, and I can out paddle most short boarders on the smallest one.

Yes I am and I can ride a 6’0’’ if the tail is wide enough, but I still don’t think it’s the best. I turn fine on my 6’6’’ and even my 7’2’‘. I don’t see where struggling with a little 5’2’’ would do me much good, but I am always open minded.

BTW: I don’t do so called big guy tris. I ride nuggets and other assorted wide tailed shapes mostly. I have ridden it all, but those are my standards for the last four years.

26

Solo- I agree that the average heavy surfer most likely does not possess the strength or stamina to paddle a truly short board, but when you can, it opens up a whole new world of surfing.

27
Quote:

Solo- I agree that the average heavy surfer most likely does not possess the strength or stamina to paddle a truly short board, but when you can, it opens up a whole new world of surfing.

Cheyne says the same thing for those that want to try. He has a 5’2’’ he rides up to 6’. Having a shaper thats not afraid to use thickness and doesn’t mind experimenting helps also. Way more to it than just making it. Rails, Bottoms, and rocker all need to be right. It’s not that I am against it, I can do it, I am just lazy in the average waves in my home town. If I lived in Oz…it might be different.

28

Thanks everyone for all the input on this thread. At first I was going to reply individually to everyone, but as I was formulating a reply to one post I’d read another post and start thinking about that reply, and on and on until the task just became too big.

The intention of the thread for me, was to try and find out from others how well their wide tailed McCoys went in bigger surf. As I said my level ends at about double overhead, and that does not include any dredging death caverns. Sometimes I might have a go at triple overhead, but at 58 years and desk bound most of the time, I don’t have the stamina for most places when there’s that much water moving around: and caught inside by the set of the day would have so much adrenalin coursing through my veins that I’d have an oxygen deficit even before the first wave got to me.

Notice, I said how well they go: I was not implying that they were the best board for bigger waves. Back in 1985 I took two Terry Fitzgerald bonzers (a 6’2” and a 6’8”) to Gragagan and had the time of my life, but now I find anything under 7’ and less than 50 litres in volume just too much of a pain to paddle, so the bigger McCoys suit me just fine.

I know Cheyne rode his 5’8” lazer zap in humungous Waimea back in the day. I’ve seen the footage of that ride and I think that was more proving a point than demonstrating it was the best board for those conditions. Also someone, I think it was on Sways, said the best board he have ever ridden in double overhead, ledging Tombstones, was a 6’8” McCoy nugget.

I haven’t taken the 7’11” to Indo yet, just the 7’ and the 7’6”. I’ve just received a 9” Spitfire fin (courtesy of solosurfer) so I’m keen to give both it and the board a try in decent waves.

Oh yeah, solo, when I mentioned chines on the McCoy all I meant was the zone of extra lift (a mm or 2) that occurs along the rail starting about 2” from the edge of the rail.

As for more input, please keep it coming guys, there’s been lots of fascinating replys already, but there’s room for more

Cheers everyone, and thanks again,

surfaddict

29
Quote:

Thanks everyone for all the input on this thread. At first I was going to reply individually to everyone, but as I was formulating a reply to one post I’d read another post and start thinking about that reply, and on and on until the task just became too big.

The intention of the thread for me, was to try and find out from others how well their wide tailed McCoys went in bigger surf. As I said my level ends at about double overhead, and that does not include any dredging death caverns. Sometimes I might have a go at triple overhead, but at 58 years and desk bound most of the time, I don’t have the stamina for most places when there’s that much water moving around: and caught inside by the set of the day would have so much adrenalin coursing through my veins that I’d have an oxygen deficit even before the first wave got to me.

Notice, I said how well they go: I was not implying that they were the best board for bigger waves. Back in 1985 I took two Terry Fitzgerald bonzers (a 6’2” and a 6’8”) to Gragagan and had the time of my life, but now I find anything under 7’ and less than 50 litres in volume just too much of a pain to paddle, so the bigger McCoys suit me just fine.

I know Cheyne rode his 5’8” lazer zap in humungous Waimea back in the day. I’ve seen the footage of that ride and I think that was more proving a point than demonstrating it was the best board for those conditions. Also someone, I think it was on Sways, said the best board he have ever ridden in double overhead, ledging Tombstones, was a 6’8” McCoy nugget.

I haven’t taken the 7’11” to Indo yet, just the 7’ and the 7’6”. I’ve just received a 9” Spitfire fin (courtesy of solosurfer) so I’m keen to give both it and the board a try in decent waves.

Oh yeah, solo, when I mentioned chines on the McCoy all I meant was the zone of extra lift (a mm or 2) that occurs along the rail starting about 2” from the edge of the rail.

As for more input, please keep it coming guys, there’s been lots of fascinating replys already, but there’s room for more

Cheers everyone, and thanks again,

surfaddict

SurfAd,

Thanks again for the order. The answer on the Mccoys is yes. Call Geoff and order the semi and it will handle anything your going to surf and something totally different. Tell him I said hello.

30

…Solosurfer

I understand your previous post

and agree with this one

I think we are talking more or less, the same

…C SLUG,

I also remember a footage of Malloy (I think) and Slater in Jbay, killing waves there with fishes…

far better Malloy (style, solid maneouvers, knowing how to ride a fish, etc) than Slater

…Cuttlefish,

I agree than most dont surf as good as they think

…ACE,

well, I see a very good surfer with superbtechnique but still doing plenty of strength to dig that rail

…Mahana,

I agree with your points

31

Fernando,

Per the post by ACE, of Dickey Moon circa 1967, at that time SOAKING WET Dickey might have weighed 135 pounds. He was a slender, slightly built fellow, and he could throw a board around quite nicely, with FINESSE, not strength. In that photo, you see a rider in perfect tune with board and wave, balancing

the forces to acheive an excellent ride. That photo was taken at Black’s, in La Jolla, if memory serves correctly.

32

…yes Bill,

that is the superb technique that Im talking; also Mc Tavish and others used it

but one of my point is that if you re not a pro surfer or a talented one is really difficult to surfing with the rails in a big long wide board

and if you can float in a smaller board, you can achieve or manage some moves to the curl (in a radical or soul way) in a more exciting and exhilarating way (Im not talking about longboards here)

–I edited to say that what s the point in ride a board that you need heap of strength to manage the maneuvers, etc?

we all here to understand a bit more about the concepts in the design and building techniques to achieve better boards

boards, I think, that will be easiest to use

also, if I do x strength to do a snapback, is better to does the same x strength but do a slashback

so equal strength but better maneouvers or places in the wave

but may be because me and my fellow customers trying small boards

so may be Im biased to think and make small boards (as far as possible) for me and the customers that arrive at the wshop

for ex, lot of big guys going to Indo but with 6´4´´ with normal area to ride clean but large hollow and fast waves

33 
"   That photo was taken at Black's".................Shores

Recent wide tailed, 17-1/2"T, x23" x 3-1/2 x 7’3" long, 5 fin “ACE” Butterfish.

Wide tails work, wide boards work, thick boards work…ITS ALL SURFING!

34

Good discussion, all. I’d like to make a sidebar, if you will, that one of the main reasons I would avoid taking a board with so much foam (such as a Nugget) in larger surf is simply because of the difficulty in duckdiving. I’ve ridden longboards with similar tail dimensions in surf of consequence and my opinion is that you cannot judge a board’s ability by one simple measurement. As others have said in this thread, it is the board as a whole rather than tail width alone that determines how it will react in HH to DOH surf.

35

Good point. I think its a major drawback too. I really have to dig my foot/knee to sink a 15 inch+ tail and as it sinks, my back is often more exposed to the wave than it should be.

There’s a school of thought that in big surf you should ride something big enough to not really be affected by a lack duckdiving. You should paddle fast and furious and get out before you get caught inside. This doesn’t work where I surf.

Paz,

C

36

if your duckdiving its probably not big surf

and anything you can duckdive a wide board will be sweet

even a minimal will roll under 4 to 6 footer if its not to heavy or the wrong spot

fins and rocker are things you need to look at to get a bit of control

i got 15 in the tail but i feel over 15 and half and things start getting weired when it big

but mccoy probably has this sorted out with his overall design

id say YES

he practically invented the bloody shortboard for fksake

i think he know hwat hes doing

37

I have a whole quiver of McCoys. I have owned quivers from a few Legend shapers over the years but Ive never found any board that suits my surfing better than McCoys do. Im fighting fit. 188cm. 80kg. 40y/o.

The most interesting thing with all these boards is that apart from the Surftech and the 7’11" they all have roughly the same amount of foam in them, Geoff just knows where to put the foam for the type of waves your wanting to ride, the amount of foam stays about the same.

So, big waves and wide tails? No problem as long as the board is designed to surf big waves. My example is the two 6 footers I have one custom for tiny waves and one Surftech, designed as an allrounder.

The custom one has an 18" tail and maxs out for me at just overhead unless its really hollow overhead surf and then it goes really well but just goes to fast to be in the right place at the right time. The Surftech has a 17" tail and for me, doesnt even start coming to life until its well overhead and seems that its upper limit is just not enough foam to get into BIG waves early enough.

The 7’11" will ride waves from knee high to as big as I can still paddle it out. Similar to the Surftech 7’11" dimensions.

My tow board has a 16.25" tail!

the new single, not in the photo above. 6’ 5" x 21" x 17 3/4" x 15" x 3" I not tested it in anything BIG yet but I`m guessing overhead to triple if the conditions are good?

38

I am SO jealous of you mate!!. Just curious as to how you find the surftech in small to medium waves???.

39

In small waves its good if there is some punch to it. If its waist high and tubing it`s good but if the waves are fat then I struggle until its head high.

From overhead up its a good board. Slides around a lot compared to my customs but I think thats just because it doesn`t have McCoy fins in it.

I didnt really like it when I first got it but having ridden it for a while now(went good in Indo this year) I think its probably at least 80% as good as a custom from Geoff.

40

I’ve had plenty of Geoff’s boards through the years and they go grreat in big surf.

A 6’3" x 19x 2 5/8 kind of modern zap was the best board I’ve ever owned for DOH ledging reefs (Jakes, Tombstones).

I’ve got an eight-O semi-gun that handles as big as you can paddle into here in Oz and gets a few laps when Lennox Point gets big here a couple of times a year.

Just got back from G-land and it was interesting to see what people rode there.

on the two biggest days : 8-10 foot launching pad , no-one with a board under 6’8" was in the game, most rode 7’0" to 7’6".

Except for a guy on a 5’9" fish who blew my fucking mind taking off deep on triple OH waves and threading Speedies barrels on days that chewed a lot of human flesh and left crew humbled and maimed.

One guy trying to duckdive a 10 foot set got smashed so hard he broke his pelvis…he was rescued and in so much pain…a doctor pumped him full of ketamine and morphine.

He was told no chopper could come until the next day and that night , bleeding internally, and close to death was driven over jungle roads for three hours to a javanese hospital. He survived. Just.

I took the 8’0’ McCoy but didn’t ride it because it seemed a bit long for Speedies.

Rode a 7’0 Bonzer that felt a little short on the drop but great in the tube.

I’d say with geoff’s boards you can go a little shorter because the paddle power is greater and they feel so neutral in heavy situations ie trustworthy.

Steve