McCoy wide tails, do they work in bigger waves?

General Discussion
1

I’ve seen a few people wondering how wide tailed boards can work in bigger waves.

My experience has been with the Surftech McCoys: 7’, 7’6", 7’11" {single and tri) and the 8’2".

I initially approached bigger waves with quite a bit of trepidation on these boards. I’ve had wide tailed boards in the past but they have only been designed for small waves, and I found them pretty much uncontrollable in bigger waves.

But hey, Geoff’s web site says that all of these boards are good from 2’ to 10’.

What I found with these boards was that they actually got looser and easier to turn as the waves got bigger (8’/ double overhead is my limit).

When you look at what is going on in the bottom contours, and especially the tails, you can see why. They have lots of rolled V and significant chines as well, both across and along the board.

The attached photos of the 7’11" show this. There’s a bit of distortion in the closeups, but at the edge of the rail the distance to the straight edge is 1/2" on the side and 1" at the tail. The dome gets progressively smaller as the board size decreases, but it is still significant even on the 7’.

With these bottom contours, as the board speed increase, the board sits up more out of the water and rides on the dome, so it becomes easier to turn, as opposed to concaves and flats where it becomes more difficult to turn. As these forces are going up as the cube of the speed (if you double the speed it is 8 times harder to turn) the advantages of this bottom shape become more pronounced at higher speeds.

Obviously, there are limits with these particular boards for bigger waves: I would like to look at some of Geoff’s guns to see what he does.

I would like to hear what experiences others have had in bigger waves with wider tailed boards.

2

This is an interesting topic, something I have been thinking about for a while.

Could you just clarify what you mean by big waves. I have only had my nugget out to head and a half + and it felt very positive & controlled. This week hopefully DOH.

Where you are going to loose control is not on the flat, but when the board is on a rail in turns.

I think that as you turn your foot has to be over the fins, that way the dome in the tail introduces the bernoulli effect and holds the tail in when it is needed, otherwise as you say when not on a rail the flat spot mid-length allows it to plane high and keep the most rolled part of the dome clear to reduce drag.

Or maybe I have it all wrong…

3

McCoy is a Living Ledgend for sure.

However if you love surfing and are serious about it get youself a quiver.

Get a semi-gun = 12" from Tail should be 13" with a hard edge 14" to 16" up then the rail should roll.

Brewers modern guns have vee in the tail with slight double barrel concave going through starting 18" up from tail.

When the surf gets pumping and trowing I prefere to pull out the right board for the conditions.

Your tail would be too soft for me however you are most likely more skilled than I am to ride a soft tail rail in large surf?

I perfere a bit more tail edge it’s easier to make hard bottom turns and have more control in the tube.

The tail you have I love for smaller surf so don’t get me wrong. I love the way your tail section is shaped.

Just not for when the waves are pumping.

The surfing experience is so much more enjoyable with a quiver.

Would you play 18 holes of golf with one club?

4
Quote:

I’ve seen a few people wondering how wide tailed boards can work in bigger waves.

My experience has been with the Surftech McCoys: 7’, 7’6", 7’11" {single and tri) and the 8’2".

I initially approached bigger waves with quite a bit of trepidation on these boards. I’ve had wide tailed boards in the past but they have only been designed for small waves, and I found them pretty much uncontrollable in bigger waves.

But hey, Geoff’s web site says that all of these boards are good from 2’ to 10’.

What I found with these boards was that they actually got looser and easier to turn as the waves got bigger (8’/ double overhead is my limit).

When you look at what is going on in the bottom contours, and especially the tails, you can see why. They have lots of rolled V and significant chines as well, both across and along the board.

The attached photos of the 7’11" show this. There’s a bit of distortion in the closeups, but at the edge of the rail the distance to the straight edge is 1/2" on the side and 1" at the tail. The dome gets progressively smaller as the board size decreases, but it is still significant even on the 7’.

With these bottom contours, as the board speed increase, the board sits up more out of the water and rides on the dome, so it becomes easier to turn, as opposed to concaves and flats where it becomes more difficult to turn. As these forces are going up as the cube of the speed (if you double the speed it is 8 times harder to turn) the advantages of this bottom shape become more pronounced at higher speeds.

Obviously, there are limits with these particular boards for bigger waves: I would like to look at some of Geoff’s guns to see what he does.

I would like to hear what experiences others have had in bigger waves with wider tailed boards.

What your experiencing is a board with tons of built in looseness because of planshape and neutralized with rail contours and a peculiar bottom. The dome on the nose goes into a less curved area in the center and flows into more dome in the tail. Making the board more neutral. Concaves make the boards do things on their own…as admitted by those who live by them, they create speed. Since Mccoy’ theory as I understand is having a board that doesn’t do anything you don’t want it to do…his boards all feel positve. His shorter boards can ride waves many folks need guns on, but Geoff also does nugget semi guns and full blown guns. I have one of his 9’2’’ longboards and I have had thing thing as well as my others nuggets out in double overhead with no problem. Thats double overhead Florida, which is different than Lanis, Sunset or Jockos etc.

As far as I know there are no chines on a Mccoy loaded dome. Not only that Geoff will not do a fin box as Surftech has on the one’s they produce as most fin systems can be adjusted to his taste for the round bottom.

Mccoy has his theory of when you need a real gun on his site. Since he has probably had more world champs and legends on his boards than most other shapers if not all of them…Mark Richards, Cheyne Horan, Larry Blair, Terry Richardson, Occy, Damian Hardman and a host of other less know but no less talented Aussie group and in Japan. I suspect the old boy has earned some serious cred for what appears to some as being out there. Not to mention …he shaped boards for Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton.

Of all the surftech models…the 7’11’’ single was best before they quit making it as a single. It was from Geoff’s personal board.

5

…hello Surfding,

In my opinion 13 is too much for a semigun

normally are between 11 5/8 and 12 or so

6

I’m not certain and I’ve been wrong before but why not message cheyne I think he may have ridden an overhead wave or2 on exactly what you are asking about.

7

That wide tails don’t work in big waves is widely held. But if you look at G. Griffin’s fish, they are thick, flat-bottomed, wide-tailed boards. People ride these in big waves and swear by them. Recently, I asked Bill Thrailkill about semigun outlines. His suggestion was to go with a wider tail than I initially considered. McCoy is such an incredible shaper and obviously built that width into the design.

For me, tail width facilitates lift as the wave comes, which translates to an earlier entry, which can be critical in big waves. You can make up for this with sheer paddle power as well, ie a longer board, but length compromises maneauverability. Rocker is the most important factor here, I think, and it needs to be dialed for the wave: How does rocker (fore and aft) affect tail width?

So, I think, especially in Cali, a wide tail can suit a big wave very well, but it depends on many factors. Arcanely, C

8

If you want to see what Geoff’s guns look like, go to his website, click on “Special Boards” and then “Guns”. There are several examples of semi-guns and guns. McCoy’s guns, like other guns, have narrower tails than their small wave counterparts, although they look like they are still a little wider than what is typical.

I have a 7’2 single fin that Geoff shaped with I believe an 18" tail. It handles just fine in double overhead waves.

9
Quote:

That wide tails don’t work in big waves is widely held. But if you look at G. Griffin’s fish, they are thick, flat-bottomed, wide-tailed boards. People ride these in big waves and swear by them. Recently, I asked Bill Thrailkill about semigun outlines. His suggestion was to go with a wider tail than I initially considered. McCoy is such an incredible shaper and obviously built that width into the design.

For me, tail width facilitates lift as the wave comes, which translates to an earlier entry, which can be critical in big waves. You can make up for this with sheer paddle power as well, ie a longer board, but length compromises maneauverability. Rocker is the most important factor here, I think, and it needs to be dialed for the wave: How does rocker (fore and aft) affect tail width?

So, I think, especially in Cali, a wide tail can suit a big wave very well, but it depends on many factors. Arcanely, C

Mccoys semi nugget gun has a 15.5 tail at 8’ in length. It will hold where other so called contemporary stuff would cause you to go to a bigger board. Not only that…his are usually singles which add even more versitility. I have had my 7’2’’ with an 18 ‘’ tail out in double overhead.

10

I was thinking more for the MCoy owner of the wide tail - Just a starting point for him. I ride 11 1/2 on my big wave guns.

11

I can attest that I have had success with huge 16"+ tails similar to nugget dimensions in 15-20ft at the peak in CA. Im a semi fit 220 lbs though trying to get down to a fit 205. In fact, I have a 7’10" with a 16" tail funshape with more tube time than anything in my quiver ever. I have always preferred thinner rails but this thing had full rails all the way through the tail. I couldn’t get all of the drive I wanted with the fuller rails but I still liked it and it was fine in bigger surf.

Works great in CA but wouldn’t want or need it in the islands or indo on way faster waves.

I have been looking to make one of these Nuggets as well. It will work great in my mushy local surf. The rails at the tail are so ugly on those things but I guess he has it figured out!!!

I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out the optimum dimensions of boards for bigger guys. If you are the industry average pro of 155lbs ( they are so much smaller oompa loompas when you see them in person) then 18.5" is fine and works really well with your weight & size 9 shoe and make slight for and aft re-positioning with your stance. If you are 220 and try to make proportionate adjustments in you’re board dimensions it just doesn’t work the same. If you follow those formulas you end up with 23" wide boards and you have to move your stance laterally & longitudinally to emulate the same drive but the board still fits the wave face with less efficiency. The greater widths and lengths just don’t fit a given wave face the same,or offer comparable entry, drive efficiency, or turning radius. End all…if you are a bigger guy, wide tails will work fine. He didn’t win contests, but just ask Vetea David.

12

…Surfding, ok

-men, all these chat about bigger boards…

Im in the oposite way

less is more

why bigger boards? bigger boards dont work properly only if you have loads of strength

dont work like small boards for a good surfing

yeah, can work for some % of the surfers, like lazy ones, recreational ones, older ones, not so trained ones, not so skilled ones, surfers that dont understand if they do a nice maneuver, with a small board, can do that but better, more radical too

is exactly like with those fishes, big fishes dont work properly, dont work like a fish

-if some want a wide tailed McCoy, go ahead but with a smaller one

they re ride pretty good and are very nice

if the rider is big, he has more bulk and more power to does the tricks or search for the curl, so go smaller

also if you have a big wide (in the tail) semigun, you should need loads of strength to dig that rail in a big bottom turn

if not you finish surfing flat, surfing with the bottom and NOT with the rails

sometimes I think that most here barely can surf or surf for 25 years in the same way

13
Quote:

…Surfding, ok

-men, all these chat about bigger boards…

Im in the oposite way

less is more

why bigger boards? bigger boards dont work properly only if you have loads of strength

dont work like small boards for a good surfing

yeah, can work for some % of the surfers, like lazy ones, recreational ones, older ones, not so trained ones, not so skilled ones, surfers that dont understand if they do a nice maneuver, with a small board, can do that but better, more radical too

is exactly like with those fishes, big fishes dont work properly, dont work like a fish

-if some want a wide tailed McCoy, go ahead but with a smaller one

they re ride pretty good and are very nice

if the rider is big, he has more bulk and more power to does the tricks or search for the curl, so go smaller

also if you have a big wide (in the tail) semigun, you should need loads of strength to dig that rail in a big bottom turn

if not you finish surfing flat, surfing with the bottom and NOT with the rails

sometimes I think that most here barely can surf or surf for 25 years in the same way

If your not Kelly or an elite and the board doesn’t float you properly…you only think your surfing better on waffers. It’s nothing to do with laziness or whatever…it has everything to do with the feeling you want out of your boards. Not everyone wants or even likes bam bam…launch.

14

…you dont need aerials to go small or be radical, I know that…if a guy is a soul bro, flowing and styling

is far better to do that on a small board

look at those guys in mini boards, discs, mini eggs, etc

Im geting older and every time I made a board for me that board is smaller than previous

but Im training periodically when there s no waves

and I m not a pro or something, but I go to the beach and share the line up with radical teenagers, so if you want the good ones, you needs to be a good surfer or better go to other beach

also if the guy who builds boards (me in this case) is a crappy surfer…is a very bad publicity

big boards with wider tails are very difficult to crank up a good rail bottom turn, this is a fact

so a trained, big and strength person is needed

Im not saying to go smaller in thickness

go the smallest possible

I have big customers riding small equipment, like 5 10 fishes

also have customers, lazy ones (I joke with them about this), not trained ones, smoking people, etc that order longboards because doesnt want to paddle hard, etc

15

well you heard the man size doesn’t matter, smaller is better !!!

16

What is good surfing?

One surfers “look at me I’m ripping” is anothers surfers arse wiggle.

Most surfers don’t surf half as good as they think they do anyway.

17

yeah the smallest possible

more waves for me

theres a 60 year old lady that outpaddles and gets more waves then the local ripper

they all hate her guts of course cuz she gets all the set waves

but shes my fckin hero

go suzie

imn riding 68 by 22

killer up to doh hollow bazzas or fat walls

wide boards are great

18

6’8’’ x 22 thruster shape paul??. Interested to see it, or at least know the tail and nose width’s. I dig wide boards, be good to have one for hollow waves.

Cheers

19

sorry beerfan i was wanking

its only 21 and abit

here it is

not the fastest (thick rails)but im finding it hard to replace it

its very forgiving on snaps in the foam etc

no dings yet in 3 or 4 months and surfed it in some hell waves up to 5 to 6 ft

just put some tommy carrol carbons on it and the board came to life in the pocket

20
Quote:

big boards with wider tails are very difficult to crank up a good rail bottom turn, this is a fact

so a trained, big and strength person is needed

A guy that can surf thats 230 needs at least a 6’8’’ or a 7’ and the wide tail if shaped right will carve with the best of them. The idea is to go as small as you can and still have the right float. Frankly…I don’t think it’s the wide tails that cause some to struggle with the bottom turns on big tails. It’s the fact that many grew up surfing thrusters and turning off their fins and never learned how to make a real bottom turn in the first place. When they finally get on a board that requires a real bottom turn to work properly, they think it’s hard.

I think Cheyne came on sways awhile ago and gave some surfer the advice to stick with thrusters because they were just easier to ride. Not better, but easier. I just saw Bustin Down the Door. Watching M.R. swoop through full railed bottom turns was inspiring. You rarely see surfing like that anymore and to me it still holds up.