'Makes me smile that when Huck stuck this thread (Mi Gordita) up in the General Discussion forum hoping for some discussion in it, it got nuthin…
… but now that he’s moved it down here, bam! Discussion galore and it’s chugging along nicely.
E&B’s started to become almost my landing page for Sway’s of late. Not a heck of a lot of interesting stuff (well, to me anyway) going on upstairs by comparison right now, so the GD page usually only gets a cursory skim before I find myself heading down this-a-ways.
And I find myself paying more attention to the stuff going on in the nooks and crannies of the Sways sub-forums these days over the well-trodden ones.
I was hoping someone else would comment on this as I don’t think I’ve the experience (especially on longer boards) to do so, but I also think that the fin setup on Huck’s Mi Gordita is trickier than usual (due to the way Huck surfs) and getting it wrong could be difficult and ugly to fix.
So, in the hopes of getting the discussion going, I’ll throw something out there.
Huck’s object with Mi Gordita is to have the paddle-ability of a longboard (or at least close to it) with the performance of a shortboard.
And the question is, where to put the fins (quads) and what setup to put on them.
Normally my response (to get that maximum response, hold, drive and manoeuverability of a shortboard) would be “put the fin cluster under/outboard of your back foot”.
But Huck likes to surf more from the mid-section (i.e. with his back foot a good foot or more away from the tail) and on the Mi Gordita he’s even carved a solid “tail block” into the foam a fair way up from the tail for where he aims to put his back foot.
Now you can put the fins a fair bit further up a board and still get it to work, but the tail needs to be setup to work in concert with that.
And I’m not convinced (from the outline) that this is the case with the Mi Gordita. There’s not much curve there from the (planned location of the) back foot to the end of the rail in the tail.
The tail shape and outline of the Gherkin which Huck has largely duplicated in the Mi Gordita has it’s fins set down close to the tail. Which makes sense; the Gherkin’s a very short board and the back foot naturally lands right on the tail.
But the Mi Gordita’s no Gherkin; the wide point’s a lot further up on the Mi Gordita and Huck plans to surf it with his back foot a good foot or so (just how far is it Huck?) up from the tail.
If Huck puts the cluster up around where he plans his back foot to be, I think it’ll turn a lot like my twin-tip kiteboard does on a wave; carvy turns, but not the hard, sharp, square turns off the bottom typical of a shortboard.
What’s more, the Mi Gordita won’t have the flex my kiteboard does, and as for rocker through the tail, Huck’s said it’ll be “fairly relaxed” - not much more than 2" from rocker apex to the tip of the tail in a middish length board.
Because of this, I’m worried that if the fins are placed up near the planned back foot location, this board could be a bit stiff to turn.
But if they’re put down close to the tail, it’ll still be stiff to turn anyway if Huck doesn’t get his back foot down closer to the tail.
If I were in your shoes Huck, I’d do the following:
PM deadshaper and ask his opinion on how to setup the fins on Mi Gordita - he’s got some experience on setting up mid-length boards to be turned from the mid-section - I think he may have recently gone on holiday for the Christmas -> New years break, so it could be a while before he gets back to you.
Be prepared to learn to step back a little when taking off on the Mi Gordita in order to get your back foot down closer to the tail.
Be prepared to blend that “tail block” you’ve carved back down into the deck before the board gets glassed. It’s a cool and interesting little feature, but it’ll be annoying and potentially something to trip over if you find you’ve got to ride the board with the back foot closer to the tail. If it turns out you can surf it with the back foot where you’d originally intended, it’s easy to stick a bit of PVA foam there to replicate what was originally carved in, and you can go the carved-into-the-blank tail-block on the next iteration of the board.
So as to give people better qualified than the me all the facts they’d need to provide you with the right advice on how to place the fins, measure up and post an accurate outline and rocker/side-view of the board from a foot or so in front of the wide-point down to the end of the tail including exactly where your planned back foot location is in relation to all of this. Some cross-sections of the board at key points along the way to give people an idea of what’s going on with the rail and deck would also be a very good idea.
Now, if my take on any of this is wrong, could someone please shoot me down on it. For Huck’s sake in helping him to get the board he’s after, made right the first time around (and for my own education on how to make the longer stuff), it would be greatly appreciated.
Anyway Huck, 'hope this helps, and if I don’t get back onto Sways before Christmas gets here, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.
Regarding the step in the deck near the back foot, I was thinking that perhaps IF it did end up causing problems (I guess it depends if my gordita lets huck surf with his feet in the usual positions) a cutout of eva at the required thickness on the lower section could raise it up to more or less level, and I think It might look a pretty cool addition if cut neatly and with care, it would also act as a deck pad.
Hopefully the board will let Huck surf it the stance he usually does so it won’t be an issue in the first place.
Sorry can’t help with the fin advice, hopefully someone with more experience will chime in on that.
thanks guys, got 1st layer glass on the deck, all laid down tight no problem, just a bit tedious. Working with epoxy makes tricky stuff like this a bit easier, because you just mix a little and work, mix a little more and work a little more, etc. I used a very small cup, mixed about six small batches as I went, started with the channels, then the deck, then the rails and tail last. This way I could babysit the channels while working on everything else. My wood mixing stick was the perfect size / shape for the channels.
I used a brush for the channels, then a foam roller to spread the resin because the squeegee wanted to pull the glass a little, but can’t have that with the channels. No leftover resin at all, just mixed what I used and barely a drop more. That’s the other thing about epoxy, no big leftovers.
Anyway, that was a big hurdle, now the whole thing has glass on it, I can lay out the fins and do my wood tail work. Just looking for any insights on fin placcement, ignore the deck and just figure fin placement for a board this size / shape. I think my original specs posted earlier are gonna work fine, but I’ll do some more research / contemplating before I actually take the leap.
good point on the pad LTM, and on the Fowler boards LIT -I’m gonna take a good look at his fin pics! - thanks again to all who are following my thread!;
Hi J yes, but unlike probox they don’t send you the router guide with the fin plugs. Or any instructions.
I have a one-handed laminate trim router that is easy to control, I can router well enough to split a pencil line. It’s still not perfect, a jig would be better, but good enough for my purposes.
I hogged out the stringer with a Forstner bit on a hand drill first.
I like both systems for different reasons and enjoy dealing with Robin at Gearbox and Larry at Probox, both are full of aloha. I would have just emailed Robin if you needed something for the Gearbox install.
Most of the fin systems seem to be jig-based installs, I imagine the jig generates a sale, removes some variables, and reduces warranty-type issues with the boxes. Your skills are above/beyond average. Thanks for the tip on the pre-hog of the stringer, nothing much worse than the router catching on the wood and taking its own path through a shaped blank.
I just noticed the sleepers next to the stringer on the middle bat tail.
yah, no biggie. I will get a jig eventually if I end up liking the gearbox plugs. When they came out I thought they said they would be adjustable with inserts, but that was not the case with the ones I received. Anyway, the jig for probox is just a cheap piece of plastic, they send you one with the plugs when you order several. Seems like gearbox could be done the same, but what do I know. They seem like a good value for the price, and very strong. So far I like them.
Not much to report, here’s a few progress pics on the tail block.
I have been thinking about your concave deck, and what a good decision it is for a wide template, instead of having to roll your feet right over to get the board to go on rail you can just push with your heel or toe and the board is already there waiting to instantly respond.
Thanx LTM there is a lot of info in the archives, search “concave deck”, or do a google search for “Stretch surfboard skate deck”. Main advantages cited that caught my eye were comfort and control. A lot of shapers have done or are doing them, including Proctor, Stamps, Berger, Harris, Stretch, and others.
I read a quote where Gary Linden said he likes them on his guns because he ‘falls off less often’.
I thought this board, because of the thickness, would be a good opportunity to try it. Combining the concave with rail channels and deck bump made things a bit tricky.
My concave is pretty subtle, but in comparison with my dome deck boards the difference is still marked. I could have gone with a bit more, but was balancing against keeping as much foam as possible at the same time.
Here are a few pics since installing fin plugs and putting a tail patch on
Hopefully get some more shots up soon, near completion.
A few notes: I’m going for an epoxy sanded finish. Personally, I like the look of shiny boards, but I also find I like the look of matte finish boards as well, and they make much more sense to me on my own homebuilt boards.
On my epoxy glass jobs, I do several fill coats, thinly applied, with sanding in between. Since I hand sand, this works well for me. The coats are quick and easy, I have less issues with fish eyes and the like, and sanding between coats is minimal. I spread the resin with a foam roller. I don’t really advocate this, just saying what I have found that works for me.
For my quad or thruster fin layout I use a reference of 4" lines, i.e. if I say 1/4" toe in, it means 1/4" over 4" distance. If I note a dimension from the tail, it is to the back of my 4" line. Once my 4" lines are marked on the board, I center my fin plugs on the lines. Again, not saying this is good for anyone else, but what I have come to view as standard practise for my own boards. I find fin layout info on the internet is always a little short of everything you need to get it exact, and I suspect its not really an exact science anyway. But if you have a standardized system for your own boards, then you can make records that make sense to you, and you can fine tune with confidence.
Since I’m already mentally on to the next board, I’m thinking something under 7’ if this one works. I’m really wanting to push the limit in how small a board I can successfully handle at age 60. The 6-7 stubby I could catch waves and stand up, but couldn’t get any real mojo on. I know I see older guys out ripping on 6’ something high performance shortboards, but I’m not those guys. I gotta find the magic formula that works for me. I also see plenty of older guys, and younger guys too, not getting waves and not having much fun.
Finding a blank that looks right for my next board will be a bit of a challenge, I really really like the US Blanks 6-9 R (Rusty), but it doesn’t have quite the width and thickness I want and doesn’t come in an X size. So maybe have to go with the 8-2A again, which seems crazy for a board under 7’, but its the smallest blank they offer with the big boy thickness in the 4" neighborhood. Not that I’m gonna go for a 4" board, but I need that thickness in the blank to get 3 1/2" approx. finished thickness.
Again, I’m probably gonna utilize the deck bump / rail channel combination, ala Stretch. It is I think the best way to reconcile a fat thickness with a properly foiled rail area. I have yet to ride one yet 'tho, so won’t start my next board in earnest until I’ve had a bit of time on this one. That, and see how I do with the decrease in length. At 7-2 this board is nearly a foot shorter than my current standard.
Well good thing I put this thread in errors and bugs - I had a couple places in one of the rail channels where the epoxy didn’t ever harden. I tried scraping, sanding, and wiping with denatured alcohol. Bottom line, it never got better, just kept smearing the crap in the channel. So now I’ve added another layer of tinted glass in the channels over the goober, hopefully it’ll cover / eliminate the problem.
I didn’t seal my tape edges real good and got some bleed so the edges of the purple didn’t come out real clean. Oh well. At least the grunge stuff has been covered over. I think just a bit of sanding with the finer grits, and maybe hit the water next week? If I can finish up tomorrow.
