Its like the Hatfields and the McCoy’s, or the McCoy’s vs the Pautsch’s, (Pautsch’s better), between me and Stoney, its all in fun anyways, and sometimes he gets the better of me, like comparing him to a dark light. But still I am waiting for the power to go on and see him pumped up and stoked from building stuff, but alas that would be too much to hope for. Still he is certainly no dim wit. I am comfortable in my own skin and meeker than most, but still the ego is not that far removed, Niebuhr called ii “inordinate self love,” and that’s just how it is.
All this talk about advanced fabrics and most guys here would air out 4 ounce bottom on a Clark Light if they had the chance. That thought reminded me of when 4 ounce first gained a bit of popularity in the mid-seventies, and then whoa, Clark Ultralights, with no gloss coats.
[img_assist|nid=1074966|title=|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=585|height=774]Cordura, over d cell, over cerex, over US blanks orange on the deck. Staged between 1 and 3 layers of Carbon on the rails. 1.2 oz Cerex under 4 oz warp on the bottom.
6’-8" x 12" nose, 21" wide point, 15 1/4" tail, 2 7/8" max thickness, and kept the thickness running throughout.
The raw shaped blank was about 3 3/4 pounds. After corcell, it came to 4 1/4 pounds. After first hot coat came to low 7 pound range. with second hot coat/ gloss coat, 7 1/2 pounds. All laminating was done on a wet out table, and vacuum bagging.
Cordura, carbon and d-cell aren’t for weight savings, but instead performance and durability. My last d-cell deck is dent free after three years.
Cordura iis much better at not shattering and tearing than fiberglass. Warp cloth on the bottom is to limit streching/ flex. But it wets out slower than fiberglass. Such a tight weave.
No stringer, and flex control with staggering layers of carbon on the rails - you can make the board feel a foot shorter or a foot longer than conventional construction.
That’s not a bad weight for a board that big, and you know it’s going to last. And a guy big enough to throw that board around isn’t going to blink at the weight.
You ever going to delve into EPS construction? You’d shave nearly a pound off that board using 2lb EPS. Of course, it introduces a number of other process controls to regulate, and you’d need more material on the bottom lamination to keep things balanced, but . . . I dunno. Just wondering, as I see you have been sticking with urethane foam so far.
I started trying composites with EPS, right after reading the Bert Berger compsand thread, and I prefer PU foam composites.
I’m not a top level pro surfer, and neither are 99.99% of the rest of us. Taking off more weight with EPS had drawbacks that outweighed the light weight benefit.
EPS hotwired is the cheapest blank there is. If you are selling them, and the customer is price sensitive (cheap) and you can cut $40 off the price, sometimes that is the choice. And when the EPS sucks in water, you can sell them a new one sooner. EPS has been around a long time, but how many **old **EPS do you see?
Superlight is good for airs, but bad for late drops in less than glassy conditions. It seems I surf most with a little windbump.
I also surf rocky points and reefs. On that really good day, where you are most likely to get a ding, I don't want to get out of the water! I had a 1 pound EPS board suck water a foot from the ding in the time it took me to paddle in after cracking a fin box. Add that to getting a ding while the board is bouncing around the back of my truck. One little ding can permanently trash an EPS board in minutes.
I've gotten my builds a pound lighter than my old Channel Islands 4,4 x 4 e-cloth boards of the same size. Controlled flex makes them ride way better, and they are much more durable.
You know what would be really interesting? If Coil did some PU blanks with their construction, and see which lasts longer and rides better.
I see where you’re coming from. Urethane certainly has its place, and you’ve got a build schedule with a purpose, which I can appreciate.
Coil did use some urethane blanks in their early days. I have an old surf rag kicking around somewhere with a picture of a Mike Daniel-shaped WRV summer-time board in Coil construction The description mentioned the blank being urethane. I don’t see much of a chance of them going back to it. Heck, I wouldn’t if I had the lam process they do. And, after all, they work in the future, not the past. ; )
Most places that sell cordura have it coated with urethane. The coating makes it waterproof, so epoxy proof too. So you can bond it, but you can’t saturate it. Also the coated does not drape at all.
It takes special techniques to work with, since it is slow to wet out. If you sand into it, it immediately fuzzes like kevlar. So as soon as you see any whiting, stop sanding. recoat that area with epoxy, and the fuz disappears.
Since its wet out so different than fiberglass, I strongly recommend making swatches wet out on some scrap foam. Get your method down before you try an entire board.
Cordura makes lots of different weaves and weights. I would like to find some in the 3 oz. weight, uncoated it short yardage. If anyone out there finds a resource, please let me know.
[img_assist|nid=1075120|title=Bottom|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=427|height=690]I’m off to see how it goes. Thanks to Bill Thrailkill on the design, Flat bottom, except for 2" wide x 3/16" bevel on the bottom. Tucked edge the whole rail.
Rocker is 5" nose x 2 1/4" tail. Flattest out the tail, and progressevly tighter as it goes to the nose.
It looks like you did bottom chine on the big one too? How do you like that? I did that to one of my bonzers and while the board was great for cheater fives (it was 6-8) the board overall was kind of a dud.
I followed some advice from Bill Thrailkill on the chine/ tucked edge.
I haven’t taken the bigger board out yet, but this is what the smaller one did.
No concave, and a chine, rides a bit like a hull. A little slower on the start, but higher top speed. I went a little too knifey on the rails, so that could have a little something to do with it. The same board with no chine and concave accelerates more when you pump it, but the top speed is slower. I definitely made sections that I wouldn’t have made otherwise.
Also Chine and hard tucked edge the length made it more slidey in the turns. Slightly bigger fins helped on that. Take them for a try this fall, and tell me what you think!
A bevel seems to go rail to rail easier. It also seems to be a little more stable, but at the same time, the chine makes it release, so it is slidey. But I’ve only had the first one out a handful of times, and the big one is still sitting in my office.
Just my take on things, and I wouldn’t be supprised if I was wrong, but rocker and template are 75% of what makes the board. I should say that not just the shaped rocker, but the flex zones that create the rocker in action. And rocker is way more important than template. Rails and fins are the last 25%.
I’ve done multiple copies of the same HPSB board, and just worked on the rocker and flex. Night and day between them, in terms of speed and turning. I really haven’t started working out the other parts, so like I said before, I got help on the rails and bottom design from others.
I do like where I’m heading in the laminating end of things, but my Garage is getting a little full. My last composite first rotation HPSB is two years old now, and in still in really good shape. No more six months old, and throw it away. Other than full speed impact into rocks, no dings, no dents, no nothing!
160 Denier Cordura® is
our lightest weight Cordura®. Uncoated 160 Denier Cordura® is water
repellent, breathable and treated with Dupont™ Teflon for soil and stain
repellency. These fabrics are durable, yet very drapeable and suitable
for lightweight, rugged active wear.
Suggested needles: Jeans 90/14
Width: 60"
Weight/sq yd: 4.5 oz uncoated
Washing: Machine wash in warm - Gentle cycle - Partially machine dry on low
Can I get a little feedback on something here. Cordura and Cerex wet out differently than fibergglass, and I can tell you not to try the usual methods for laminating. I’ve figured out how to use it. and get it to work. Pretty simple but different. I posted a couple of boards so you can see it does work. Lighter weight, stronger, and and white or color.
On the Cerex thread, I got a lot of feedback on how I should only be posting this stuff through the P.M. channel. And not to give away some pro builders secrets.
Can you all let me know if I should post up the methods used to laminate with these cloths? Otherwise, I’ll keep it quiet, and only through personal message.