Modern Rocker (Webber's Taj Model)

I am looking to shape a board similar to what Taj is riding and want to see what your feel is for Webber’s description of the rocker:

“He [Taj] has helped me to blend curves to allow for the greatest range of foot position possible, from centered for carving, back for tight snaps, to way forward for airs. With less nose rocker yet more tail than most, it is a quick pickup, responsive design, with forgiveness entirely due to the blending of rocker.”

I’m thinking 4 1/2 nose, 2 3/8 tail (focused in the last 12 inches). Am I at least in the ballpark on this one? I don’t know if Biolos is visiting the forum anymore but I know he just had Webber come over to Cali to discuss designs. Any tips?

I hope someone answers this one too.

I’ve been thinking along these lines too.

Hope someone with knowledge replies coz I reckon lower nose rocker means easier entry more down the line speed and more tail rocker means bigger sweet spot and tighter turns where its steep

The measure of nose and tail rocker, although very important, is secondary to the configuration of the rocker throughout any surfboard.

Greg Weber and Taj Burrow have been working to develop boards that are very versatile - that perform a variety of high performance maneuvers from various positions on the board. (Keep in mind these are shortboards from 5’ 10" to 6’ 2" under the feet of one of the greatest surfers of the moment.)

Current shortboard design features three primary rocker designs: staged rocker, continuous rocker, and any “hybrid” combinations of rockers.

Staged Curves Rocker is a bottom curve that is relatively flat through the mid section of the surboard with accelerated curves in the entry and tail sections of the board. The staged curves rocker is a radical extension of continuous rocker where the rocker in the mid section of a surfboard has been “flattened” to dial up the speed and projection of a shortboard out of it’s turns. The extent that these flat and accelerated curves transition into each other is critical to the successful application of this design. Smooth transitions allow the board to maximize performance and prevent the board from pushing water - bogging and slowing down. Poor, interrupted transitions will cause the board to drag and lose speed.

Continuous Curves Rocker is a bottom curve with no flat spots that still flows from greater curves in the nose and entry of the surfboard to lesser curves in the mid and tail sections of the board. These smooth and continuous curves allow a surfboard to turn with relative (to length, template, and bottom contours) ease, yet develop speed, and project well out of turns.

(Hybrid Combination Rocker is a bottom curve that draws on the relevant features of continuous curves rocker and staged curves rocker. These rocker patterns are applied primarily to the wide variety of hybrid surfboard designs. To accomplish the varied goals of these designs shapers will combine the smooth even curves of the continuous curves rocker and the flatter curves of the mid section of staged curves rocker to maximize performance.)

Taj and Greg Weber’s design is a continuous rocker design, with moderate curve throughout. Curved and flat elements of rocker are reduced. Blending and transitions between these rocker elements is not such a difficult task as blending the more pronounced curves and flats of a staged rocker.

Moderate curve throughout a board allows a shaper to drop the entry and nose rocker a little as the soft curves in the middle of the board facilitate the nose and entry fitting into the curves of a wave

(as opposed to a flatter mid section found in staged rocker designs which usually require a little more lift in the entry.)

Blank selection and custom rocker are important / critical to achieve a good result. You can reduce enrty rocker dramatically by starting the shape a little further back from the nose of a blank. Remember to consider how this effects the rocker in the mid section and tail of the board.

im heading down there tomorrow ill put a straight edge on some of taj’s greg shapes and and let you know in a few days …

hes got about 60 boards that look indentical by all different shapers ,i think alot of them are to scared to do anything different in case he doesnt like it ,so they just copy the boards he shows them,most pros have deals that lets them buy any board they want as long as the sponsors name is on it…coz some surfers have been locked into deals with average shapers that have made them under perform ,which affected there other sponsorship deals…

i highly rate gregs work he does these cool descriptions of exactly what conditions and wave range the board will work in ,written over the bottom of the board ,some are so in depth they cover the whole bottom in fine lettering ,

so taj isnt left guessing as to what board to ride on any given day…

ok thats my one and only post on the new swaylocks for a few days im off down the coast for 4 days of r&d

regards

BERT

Thanks Steve, that was a great explanation of the various forms of rocker. Let me make sure I got it right.

For Taj’s model, producing a smooth (but lessened) continuous rocker throughout the entire board allows you to minimize nose and tail flip while still maintaining manueverability and speed? Would the nose and tail rocker then be fairly symmetric and centered on the middle of the board?

Quote:

im heading down there tomorrow ill put a straight edge on some of taj’s greg shapes and and let you know in a few days …

Bert, that would be awesome. Thanks.

Losos,

You certainly can drop the entry a little. No need to drop or flatten the tail too much - if at all. Increase the rocker in the mid section a little compared to the common “speed box” you would find in a staged rocker design.

The transitions between entry, mid section, and tail rocker should be easier to keep clean when you reduce the entry rocker. It’s important to keep these transitions clean - so clean the eye doesn’t “see” them.

12" back from the nose - 1 3/4"

12" up from the tail - 1"

1/3 back from the nose, 1/4 up from the tail = acceleration points for the rocker.

You might also think about getting the crown of your rocker behind center if possible.

ok im finally back…the surf was epic so i stayed a few more days ,we got one of the sickest beachy sessions ive ever seen …

6’ plus on the setts ,double head plus more on the bombs ,clean green beachbreak perfection,every wave a sic wedge ,light offshore to glassy,every wave a barrel …

i saw guys who could hardly balance, waving there arms around and bending at the hips getting spat out of backhand barrels…ended up surfing for nine hours that day over 3 surfs,started losing my voice from hooting all day…

losos man i couldnt measure taj’s current board coz i forgot my straight edge ,but what he was riding the other day looked the same as one of his favourites i measured a few months back ,he dumped it in front of me and said “this is the best board ive got at the moment”

6’ x 18 x2 1/4 nose 4 3/4 tail 2 1/8 12" in front of centre 7mm , 24" in front of centre 38mm , 12" behind centre 7mm ,24" behind centre 24mm

nose width 10 3/4 tail width 13 7/8 …fin setts 11 and 3 1/4

he was riding this one in some sic footage i saw the other day shot from a helicopter i can honestly say ive never seen footage as good from the perspective of being original and unique …theres one of him being filmed from above and real close riding the barrel and you can see through the lip clearly ,at the same time the reef rushing past in 12" of water …awsome! ,on some he’s launching airs and you think hes gonna hit the helicopter,the footage is so insane i dono what else he could put along side it without seeming drab and the usual …ok im out for now hope that helps losos

regards

BERT

Steve- saw your picture, on the wall of fame, in Bruce Wood’s state of the art Luthier factory the other day. Small town!

The guy has a pretty deep quiver of Bill Hamilton boards.

http://www.rain.org/~bfwood/

Thanks for all of the informative posts!

Bert - you are amazing. thanks a bunch

Losos do you surf as good as Taj, he being one of the best surfers in the world and having surfboards shaped to suit that extremely high level of abilitiy. It might be best to tone it down a couple of notches.

michael - what “it” would you be referring to toning down?

Of course I don’t surf as well as Taj does. If I did I wouldn’t be shaping my own boards (well, at least not all of them). But I do surf every morning and recently I’ve been punting some big airs with solid landings. My boards just don’t seem to carry me through the flats very well. Seeing that I am around the same build (5’10" and 150 lbs) as Taj and that his boards seem to float him in the flats just fine, I thought using a board similar to his may help.

Using a pro’s dimensions doesn’t make you surf like them BUT it does remove that mental block (“If only I had the right board I would have stuck that”). Taj can ride the board just fine in any conditions; therefore any problems I have must come from my inability. When you only have yourself to blame you progress much quicker.

id say if you want to ride the flats easier maybe its better to keep your usual tail rocker and just get a wider tail or wider nose. most of the guys i see punting airs are riding those little stubby things.

That may work too. I’ve tried adjusting tail widths on my last three boards but it just seems to affect my turning without producing any substantial benefits.

On top of that, I just thought it would be fun to see exactly what the rocker Webber is describing looks like. He seems to put a large emphasis on it.

Many shapers would agree that rocker is the key ingredient to a good board. Why not start with a good rocker as your foundation and build the rest of the dimensions off of it?

well youve got it now so build it and find out ,its a clean curve to the eye ,if you run those measurements ,just watch the last foot of the tail ,the rocker doesnt accelerate but almost looks to constant as it exits ,also all of taj’s best boosters have super hard tail edges from in front of the fins back to the tail ,good release = boostability ,nice low rails as well ,and the outline has a subtle hip at the front fins around 13 " mark ,not really a hip just a slight acceleration in the outline as it runs past the fins…also a light (3mm)concave through the middle to flattening tail but still light concave ,the rails in the tail tho thin are boxy ,he reckons that when hes sliding backwards the boxier rails dont catch as bad ,

the comment about equipment ,i remember when i was about 16 lending one of dave macauleys boards ,my surfing went 3 levels up on my first wave ,i remember doing 3 full vert reos in a row and just going WOW!!! ive never done that before ,same session did my first backhand air ,

there are so many average surfers out there who remain average coz of average equipment not letting them progress to the next level…equipment is everything ,

regards

BERT

Hello Bert,

I just plugged your nums into a drafting proggie and the nose seems to have alot of rocker, not what I would have thought of as “low entry rocker”. I may have misinterpreted your numbers, are you saying the nose dim is 4 3/4 and also it bottoms out at the middle. If so the image is below is what I got.

I am new to dimensioning boards, so don’t take this as I’m saying your wrong, please.

Quote:

Hello Bert,

I just plugged your nums into a drafting proggie and the nose seems to have alot of rocker, not what I would have thought of as “low entry rocker”. I may have misinterpreted your numbers, are you saying the nose dim is 4 3/4 and also it bottoms out at the middle. If so the image is below is what I got.

I am new to dimensioning boards, so don’t take this as I’m saying your wrong, please.

Hey riley, How did you do that? What program did you use? Can you get the other measurements off that rocker? I ususally measure every 3 inches.

I am a draftsman by trade and we use a program here called Rhino, you can find a demo of it here

It is a fully functional version that only allows you to save like 30 times, but you can dimension stuff all day and copy/paste the values into a text editor.

There are some open source 2D CAD packages out there, if you do some hunting. I have the file, i just can’t figure out how to attach it to this post.