Mookie: FCS/Futures

“ok well the battle that keeps coming up which is better? Its whatever you prefer. FCS has the K2.1 which I think is the only good fin they made until last week. Now they do a vector fin like future.” Where are these FCS vector-type fins to be found? I can’t find their website now- did it move?

Their website is as allways on Couldn’t find any vector like fins tho. regards, Håvard

FCS just released them this month. So they are so new they might not be on their site yet. Check the current Surfing Mag for the FCS add witht the fins. I haven’t seen them yet. I am waiting on a set though and I will let ya’ll know how they work.

If a fin company like F.C.S. has to rip off the Futures vector fins, why would anyone want to try a pair of the ripoffs? Just try the real vectors from Futures.

maybe they just like FCS. Maybe they’re just used to FCS. Maybe FCS has worked fine in the past, so why change. Maybe FCS has qualities that they prefer. how do you define a ripoff? I suppose Future invented the thruster as well? A. Einstein once said “I was only able to see as far as I did because I stood on the shoulders of the giants before me” (paraphrase)

To define a ripoff? If you violate the trademark and Patent rights, It amazes me that someone would think that in buisness you can just rip off someones idea and create your own product with no responce fron the inventors. People with that frame of mind, is what scares me in todays time

Gee… maybe FCS will sue Futures for NOT letting them rip them off. FCS did, of course, invent everything concerning fins.

I thought that was Newton’s saying about the shoulder of giants… In any matter, I’ve had few problems with FCS (And fewer with Futures) but they’re hard to deal with in my opionion, plus the guys who sell them for cheap in a shop where i used to reside are total punks…

Howzit Fins-lab, Was on the phone with my FCS rep this morning and asked him about those vector fins. FCS is not the co. who’s making them! There are other co. that make fins that fit in the FCS system ie: manuver, pro-tech,etc. By the end of Feb. 2004 we should see their new line of plugs and fins which just might change some of the doubters minds. One thing I can tell you is they will offer a line of fins that are as light if not lighter than air-cor fins. Tom Carrol tried a set at Sunset recently and couldn’t believe how good they worked. They gave me alot of info about the new system and fins but I think I’ll let everybody wait instead of letting the cat out of the bag. Aloha, Kokua

Kokua Howz it! I do know for a fact, that FCS is making a vector fin.They are already showing in OZ and its flattering that the Vector fins are so powefull that a few fins companys are trying to copy the Vectors. But remember, The foils and design are trademarked and have a patent. This means that people trying to copy the vectors will never have the true foils on the fins and therefor you will get a inferior product. And the Vectors are a very powerfull fin.The load these fins create can almost never be held in by a FCS plug. Tom Carrol had come across the Vectors months before FCS had some.He received a Futures ready board in early summer and was so impressed he brought them to the crew at FCS. There has been a large influx of top ASP riders who all have vectors and vector ready boards made speical for them, They have all positive feedback and some will not back to standerd boards and fins. Take Care

Fins-Lab, So exactly how long have YOU worked for future fins?

I must agree with finslab. Give credit where credit is due,Future Fins has produced a fin that personal I have tried. It was a difference like i have never felt before.A crap board turned into a majic board with only a change of the fins. I do expect FCS to come with a copy of the fins. Why would they not? Do they come out with any good fins lately/ No! I will stick with Futures or Lokbox. and Red Ex.

well folks, nothing new under the sun, today. the vector fin foil shape is dated from the 1930’s. the link below is homework for anyone interested or motivated enough. i was invited to the appreciation day opening of the new smithsonian air and space museum last weekend. there i got to stand under a concord while looking at a sr-71 with a wright flyer at my back and totally surrounded by many other very historic air and spacecraft. if you want some inspiration i suggest a visit. opening to the general public is i think december 15th. too beat to look it up. regarding the rip offs. ask brian whitty what he thinks about fcs. now, i havnt seen the vector fin patent number, but if it starts with “D” it’s a design patent and a design patent is so limited in the protection afforded it’s not worth the paper it’s printed on. then smallest change voids the patent protection. it’s just for ego trippers. if it doesnt start with a “D” never mind. and as for having an idea stolen by a fin company. i cant talk about specifics, but i know from my experience it hurts and the process to correct it is very expensive and hurts even more. the loser is supposed to bear all the legal costs plus damages. there again you might want to ask brian whitty if in his particular case it was all worth it in the end. in my case it’s too soon for me to say.

The vector foils are not really the breakthrough that futures claim. They have a concave running thru the flat side of the fin. They claim that they create such an incredible amount of load that it rips tails apart, and boxes out. I’ve noticed them marketed towards small to medium waves. They track, and need some size with open faces. They probably would not work well in FCS plugs, simply because any rigid fin overloads those plugs. It’s no secret. I know there are some diehard FCS backers on here, and that’s ok. It’s a simple system. It’s not the best thing for performance and that’s been proven umpteen times. Their fins are shock absorbers that suck up the load so it’s not transfered into the plugs.Anybody that believes differently is just fooling themselves. The carbon fins blow plugs out regulary. Check what (serious) surfers are using regular composite fins…not many. Fins aren’t really worth patenting or trademarking, because you need only alter the foil/template around 2% and you can sell it, So good luck with your lawsuit/s finslab. As for inventing anything, how about california fin systems? Designed in huntington beach in 1982. Anyone who remembers, or has seen one, knows that the futures fin box is a combination of this system, and ofish’l. Double ripoff!!! The future fin base is nearly identical to the california fin system fin base, that was made in composite, as well as in fiberglass by fins unlimited and fiberglass fin co. more than 22 years ago. The box uses the pin and hook connection in the back, w/ set scew in the front. California fin system is identical, just reversed. The current future box has been scaled down and the ends rounded. Other than that, it is the SAME design. The box gets routed in right next to the tucked rail edge,is not very wide, and is built way less durable than it’s predecessor,thats’s why the vectors make the tail come apart. So far i’ve seen the vectors(and the foils are close enough) in 2 different systems, test thoroughly by power surfers, and there was no tail/fin box problems. The feedback was that they don’t feel very responsive in small surf on shortboards. They may have an application on guns in bigger clean surf.

I have found that FCS works well enough for the typical surfer, although it leaves a lot to be desired and it is not the end-all to every situation. But I just hate how the plugs blow out sometimes and how kelp and other stuff gets lodged between the fin and board ahead of the front tab. They should have designed the front tab at the front of the fin so kelp can’t get stuck. The only workaround to this problem that I have found is to put a blob of Dynaflex 230 under the fin before installing, then wiping off the squeeze-out with a wet finger. But even then, you need to reapply the caulking periodically to keep it effective. What would be great would be an adapter that fits into the Futures box to enable it to accept FCS fins. Certainly, FCS composite fins will break off cleanly in a solid box. This would be a nice way to transition to Futures while still utilizing the investment in FCS fins.

I’d say nature invented the ‘vector foil’ a long time ago. Pretty much every bird wing has a similar foil. It’s been studied for a long long time, I’d be very surprised if Leonardo da Vinci didn’t include a drawing of the foil of bird wings in his study of the flight of birds. That’s a long time ago and it’s certainly been studied afterwards. Only thing that is new is the application, surfboard fins. regards, Håvard

cool bird wing website - this diagram looks just like the futures vector fin flow diagram

The adapter your talking about is available right now for the lokbox system. Contact rainbow fin co.

Howzit Aaron, If your FCS fin has a gap at the front of the fin then there’s 2 things that makes this happen. Sometimes there’s to much rocker at that point in the bottom snd since the bottom of the fin is flat it just doesn’t mold to the bottom. But 1 thing I see more of is the sander doesn’t sand the area flat. When I sand this area of the board I make sure to sand it flat. The factories should insert the fins before the finish sanding just to make it right. Ever notice (at least here) the fins aren’t in the board when a person buys it and probably never had any inserted for a test. This is a problem that applies not to just FCS systems.Aloha, Kokua

Howzit Fins-lab, Just got off the phone with Robb Cribb who is the head honcho for FCS Hawaii. He has assured me that FCS is not and won’t be making the Vector fin. Here’s the kicker, Future fins are going to make a vector fin that works in the FCS system. Maybe you saw a prototype of this fin or it’s possible that Future already has it in production for them. Aloha, Kokua