I have always cut the wings in when I cut the outline, but I remember someone here saying they did it later in the shaping process. Couldn’t find the post in the archives. Can any of you swalockians shed some light on this subject for me? Thankum! Scott
Cutting wings later allows you to keep a better flow while roughing out a board. Get your thicknesses right, shape the bottom, shape the deck while banding the rails, cut the wings, turn the rails, fine sand. aloha, tom
actually scott i’ve been pondering that same post.i believe it was herb.i’ve never shaped a board with wings but just had a request from someone for a board with them. as i remember he said cutting them in to the outline wasn’t the way to go, that the wings are added on and are more hourglassed shaped than one might think. i assume its like a board with hips which aren’t cut in but an integral part of the planshape. herb, wanna shed some light on this one?
You are correct Bruce,just draw out your normal outline, be it a roundpin,swallow,squash,etc.,then add the wings to that outline.I have wing templates that flow with my regular lines well.Herb.
Depending on how far toward the tail you want to place the wings, sometimes it`s beneficial to angle them downward a few degrees, below the plane of the tail (whether it be a roll, flat or vee) as the bottom contour proceeds widthwise toward the rail line. Including a slight fluted area (concave) under each wing can offer a little extra bite and punch through turns, too.
thanks herb and dale.
I probably shouldn’t respond because I’ve never cut wings. But …I’m planning some… someday.
I think I can tell most pre-outline wings from after-outline wings by outline shape. Pre-shaping the board without wings suggests that the outline forward of the wings would be the same outline with, or without wings.
To me, the outline forward of the wings shouldn’t be the outline of the board, without wings. It would pull in too much, forcing the shaper to pull the tail outline too much. The forward outline of a winged board should be the outline of a board +/- 5 inches longer than the board you are shaping. Same with the tail outline. It should look like the tail of a board longer than the one you are shaping. If you could pull them apart, you could fill in the outline between them.
But I’m a person who thinks tail outline shape is more important than tail thickness. I would deal with the thickness issues after cutting the outline, with-wings.
Noodle, A point of reference on accurately understanding wings is to shape two boards, one without the wings, and one with them. By maintaining consistency on all other design elements in both shapes, the differences in handling characteristics are isolated and will be obvious. In a series of related boards, try to resist the temptation to change more than one design element at a time. This is a good rule to follow in understanding any aspect of surfboard function. In this case, the longest, most tedious journey is truly the quickest means of resolving a specific question. Dale
example: what is the meaning of life? i see your point>>> In this case, the longest, most tedious journey is truly the quickest > means of resolving a specific question.>>> Dale
example: what is the meaning of life? i see your point Ramon, And that`s why patience has been called a virtue. Dale
Dale Dale, Here’s the way I see it. The reason for wings is to allow for a surfer to shift weight and quickly shift ride characteristics between front-foot rail turning and back-foot snap turning. Rail turning requires parallel-ish rails, letting rocker and rail carve an arc. Snap turning requires a narrow tail, so you can dig it in and pivot. If you draw in the forward rails you destroy the pivot platform, the bar under your seesaw. You also destroy the parallel rail outline which forms the basis for front-foot rail turns. If I were to follow your advice, shaping two boards to arrive at the proper wing shape, the un-winged board would be five inches longer than the winged board. The winged outline would be identical to the unwinged outline except 5 inches would be missing, 12 inches from the tail. Am I heading in the right direction? That would be an interesting ride test. However, with current pressures on my shaping time I’ll probably just shape the longer board in my head. -Noodle
-Noodle Noodle, As a starting point, try shaping a proven, non-winged design youre comfortable with, and feel the differences in comparison to a duplicate without wings. Its been my experience that properly designed wings can be a beneficial addition to a variety of shapes, long or short. The type of wing I described earlier provides an subtle, punchy bite and a small pivot point when the board is banked and released through a turn… my reference is primarily to longer walled, 3`-10’ waves. Similar, but more accentuated feelings and function are attained by very small side fins placed near the edge of the rail where the wings would normally have been located. So, at least in the beginning, I would keep all other design elements of the two boards equal. This process is costly and labor-intensive, but well worth the knowledge and experience. Dale
Gentlemen, I might be on the wrong track but I’ll throw a few ideas out there any way. If I were going to make a comparison. I build two boards with the same bottom and rocker configuration of the same length. The one with the wings, if there were just one pair of them mind you, would by nature carry it’s width from the midsection further into the tail. So if the one that had wings was say 20 inches wide in order to get a board of similar volume the one without wings would have to be a tad wider in the middle than the one with wings. Say 2.325 or a little less depending on the outline. Round outline less different straight outline more width.
The width difference would also depend on how deep the wings are cut in. A swallow tail of the same ending width on each board could be a good compromise. a squash tail would be a distant second choice but that would be up to the guy doing it. A round or rounded pin might make things a little difficult. I have an old single fin winged fish '72 vintage. The idea back then was to hold some width in the mid section at the same time add a little more snap and response.
Mark Richards was about as successful as anyone I know with the winged fish design. His boards had very rounded outlines around 6’2" and the wings were not very sharp, only cut in about 1/2" or so. I have one I’m fixing up for a friend right now if you have any interest in the spec’s. It might be a fairly good choice to try with and without wings. I guess it all depend on what you’re looking to find out and in what kind of surf conditions you expect to make the comparisons. Good Surfin’, Rich
Absolutely, specs from a MR twinfin would be great, also fin placement DIMS, and wing height and swallow width! Thanks!
OK Here’s the skinny on the Mark Richards Fish: "I’m refitting this one for a friend. The tail section was completely blown way. With a real half assed try and patching things up. I’ve had to strip all the glass off the bottom tail section and let new foam in there. The fins were both broken off but you could see where they were. I’ve put a future thruster set up in it so he can surf it either twin or triple. I can’t bring back the orginial anywhere near perfect but he loves the thing so I’m just doing the best I can.
Details below: It’s a Silver Strand #244 6’0" x 14.5 x 20.75 x 15.25 x 2.675 Thickness carried all the way into the nose Tail section thins out and vee begins, real knifey tail. with a 5.5" staight cut swallow 1.25" deep. 1.25’ tail rocker 3.125 nose rocker Very hard rails nose to tail, front 24" slight concave, center 24" flat, 24" tail section has increasing vee. soft rounded wings start 8" from tail and bump in about 3/8" Rail fin trailing edges 11.5" from tips of swallow center fin (added)trailing edge 2" from center of swallow
I hope this helps. This one’s for going rail to rail to rail…I seem to remember him scooting out on the nose a little when he was in the pocket too. He and Horan really had it out for about 5 years or so. Both two of the best ever hard to choose between them. Very different styles.
Good Surfin’, Rich
THANK YOU!!!
I have often wondered about MRs’ specs. You have just given me my new personal project. Thank you very much! Magoo
Wings are fun.
All I rode for years was winged everything.
Used a saw.
Sureform.
Round micro-blades.
Best method I’ve found is temlate and router.
