i just saw the helpful feedback that mick got re; his tendonitis, and at the risk of turning this into a medical forum, i thought i might ask for some help!!
also, seeing as how my surgeon has told me that 20+ years of paddling (with my back in hyper extension) has caused it- it seems to be relative to the topic of surfing.
“retrolisthesis of the L-4 L-5 disks” is the technical term… but it is basically the non stop ( and i mean fully non stop!) painfull pinching of the syatic (spelling?) nerve, due to an out-of-line lower back.
i have struggled with back pain ( who hasnt though- right?)since i was a teenager- im now 29.
in the last 3 months or so it became so unbearable that my osteo got a bunch of x-rays taken of me.
now im off to see an orthopaedic surgeon, who reckons it will only slip further-and pinch more- in the future. and the only way to correct it is to have the offending disks re-aligned and fused solid…
any swaylock swaybacks out there had this same problem?
is there any temporary relief?.. its starting to prohibit more than the odd surf session now. and the numb legs/ sore back is 24/7 now -for the last several weeks!
and is there such a thing as a full recovery?.. still able to surf at the level i was pre-op (or pre-suffering, i should say)
ps. yes i am a builder. and yes i have tried yoga, pilates, streching, swissballs, voltaren, osteopathic manipulation, not working, reciting the times table backwards, etc etc
Tai chi would help but you need to do it for at least a year to realign your back.
and unblock, blocked chi energy in your body.
Toasist tai chi society is in new zealand .they have revised movements away from martial arts more towards religning spine and improving health and posture.
do a google on the health benefits of tai chi you would be surprized . I think its more gentle and effective then yoga etc .
preventative medicine really …
its well over two thousand year old form of medicine and very effective ,just look at the shoalin monks .they are strong until old age.
Ahmm- tennis elbow is one thing, ’ the numb legs/ sore back is 24/7 now -for the last several weeks! ’ is a whole other animal.
And at this point in time it’s probably a little late to be fiddling with alternative therapies, 'cos while a back ache is normal for those of us in the construction/bull work biz, the numb legs scare me some. That way lies loss of motor control in your legs and other such stuff, really bad consequences.
Unlike most, you have probably done a lot of lifting with your lower back and so your back muscles are in far better shape than most - I’m in the same boat. But using 'em for lifting, which is motion, and using 'em to hold you in a static position - those are two different things. The back, the spine, it wasn’t really designed all that well for what we do with it, more a leftover from animals that went around on all fours. As are a lot of body parts. The spine is, basicly, a loosely held stack of bony tubes with cartilage washers between 'em and the whole thing can get out of whack really easy, wear wrong and get screwed up, sometimes for no real reason at all, just heredity and bad luck.
I’m afraid that things are gonna change some, by necessity. I would get more than one opinion, and choose carefully between the alternatives. You can make a very good recovery, but you won’t be just like you were. Those fused sections will make part of your spine solid, immobile.Your flexibility will be somewhat limited.
Sorry to not be more help. Good luck and hope it goes well for you.
Those fused sections will make part of your spine solid, immobile.
Yeah, and, since I have the same L4/L5 problem (but then I’m a lot older than you are), I have been told the same and also this: if you fuse two of them together, the problem is most probably going to happen again, only upper.
I was told that the only real thing to do is to make your abdominal muscles work a lot so that you build a very strong muscular belt around those weak vertebrae.
And, of course, all the usual advice: use your legs, NOT your back to lift heavy loads, ASO…
One thing I do: when sanding a board, I always wear a belt (how do you call those things? They look like girdles…). The weight of the sander in front of you is a very sure way to screw your back…
I have had several friends with severe back pain. Different things worked for each of them. For one, it was Bikram Yoga (a really intense heated yoga that many pro surfers do including Taylor Knox and Slater.) For another, it was the book “Healing Back Pain, by Sarno”. And another solved his pain by doing situps (tons of them) - strengthening your stomach muscles will lessen the strain on your back.
All did different things, but one thing is for sure, none of them got any significant relief from “resting your back”, or “immobilizing it”. Movement was the key for all of them. Only way to get things realigned.
Not sure what will work for you, but I’d try everything before I went under the knife. Fusing the disks together is permanent and no guarantee it will help.
One thing I do: when sanding a board, I always wear a belt (how do you call those things? They look like girdles…). The weight of the sander in front of you is a very sure way to screw your back…
That and the McGuire-Nicholas suspension rig ( http://store1.yimg.com/I/texastooltotes_1865_4198716 ), which takes the weight of tools, fasteners and such off my lower back and puts it on my shoulders so I’m not eating aspirin like candy after just lugging my stuff around all day.
Hell of a note, between this and that it seems like these days I am held together with elastic and velcro.
i will have my dad read this he is a chiropractor and put up what he says. lifting your leggs , so your knee are bent relieves stress on your back while you paddle
i cant thank you guys enough… it seems like i have had more good advice overnight from the swaylock community- than in 5 years of professional medical advice !!
you have swayed my opinions re surgery… i had no idea that relief was availible in other forms
a question ( particularly aimed at ‘reverb’ (thanks for your reply)- Can you elabourate on the need to sleep on a spring matress?
i have had a slat futon for 5-6 years now… and i must say it is NOT comfortable on my back, and i am often more sore in the morning just after waking… i only stuck with the futon because i was under the (misguided?) impression that they were back/posture friendly.
i can fully imagine a spring matress feeling better, i should change then??
Also look into Structural Integration, commonly called Rolfing after the name of the woman who developed it. It is a very deep type of massage designed to break loose muscles that have locked in place over the years, allowing your skeletal system to return to it’s natural alignment. I have had pretty severe scoliosis all my life which started to cause debilitating pain when I reached my 40’s.Rolfing enabled me to get past that and return to my normal active life again. You can google rolfing to get a much better explanation than I gave.
Also a simple thing I do when I am surfing is to constantly move my head from side to side when I am paddling. This helps to counteract the hyperextension that your neck is subjected to from paddling.
Being fit, losing weight, and keeping all other areas developed is great advice. Everyone’s orthopedic situation is unique, and sometimes multiple symptoms complicate ones own understanding of what to do.
It is good to avoid the F word at all cost unless it’s the obvious way left to go. Fusions have helped some people that I know, but it seems to me to be a term w/ various levels and procedures. Finding the right OS who likes the first option of avoiding surgery is my advice. Go slow and understand the diagnosis.
You gotta love the L-4 L-5 S-1 zone. It’s often the first thing on my mind in the morning.
i have had a slat futon for 5-6 years now… and i must say it is NOT comfortable on my back
In my opinion sleeping on a futon is not living… it’s camping! Do youself and anybody else who might use your bed a favor and get a real mattress. Expensive mattresses are around $1000 but they can vary between about $300 on up (USD so figure the math). Pretty small price for something that influences so much of life.
Another thing to consider with all the other advice is proper hydration. This won’t fix anything but giving your body enough fresh water really helps the discs. The advice about spinal fusion transferring the stress to other areas also makes simple sense although I hadn’t heard it before.
Something else to consider before, during, and after any injury, rehab or recovery is maybe changing the surf equipment. Somebody mentioned going longer and thicker. I would also offer the notion of something long enough to kneepaddle, as that may bend you the opposite from hyperextending your back. Maybe somebody else has gone that route an can offer their observations. Also a soft board. Also alternative surfcraft…bodyboard, bodysurfing. The one and only major thing I had to deal with was so painful I would have quit surfing if it meant being in that bad shape repeatedly (it was so bad when it was going on I couldn’t surf anyway).
In my later 50’s I suffered from severe back pain from a ruptured disk and God knows what else from making the mistake of hefting very heavy shoulder strapped bags and carrying them from one end to the other of the Denver airport. Duh - Dumb! I had to work extremely hard to overcome the pain lasted three and a half years. My initial fear of being permenently crippled was huge. The professional advice from the physical therapists I am friends with that I got and the work I did was worth it. I’v been pain free for nearly five years.
Consider that you spinal cord is really an extension of you brain. It has a memory and will stimulate you to protect it with pain messages the will linger well into the healing process. The fluids in the sacks that separate the vertabrae are full very caustic stuff that creates tremdous pain when the membrane that contains it is ruptured.
If you mask your pain with drugs you won’t know where you are in the healing process. I took no drugs at all. It was a real tough go but if I didn’t keep the message channels open how would I have measured how the healing process was going? I can tell you it was beyond slow! Consider that the spine is the most complex mobility organ in the body and if you have serious damage it won’t heal if you don’t keep it quiet and move it very carefully. Building tone in the opposing muscle groups (the abdomen) is top priority.
The order of business for me upon waking was ~
Light mobilization & strecthing followed excercize – very little at first but in the end millions of crutches and leg lifts on a soft but supportive surface. After excercize it was heat (hot water in the shower on my lower back) followed by additional gentle stretching. The heat was very soothing and It helped me to move the little that I could. After about 20 minutes to let things normalize I used 30 to 45 mins of ice (bag of frozen peas) followed by immobilization. A corset with velcro straps that had a little horseshoe shaped insert in the back that fit into the small of my back gave me enourmous relief during the course of daily activities. During the first 6 months I wore it 24 hours a day unless I was doing therapy. My excercize process started very gingerly and progressed over about 6 mounths until I didn’t need constant immobilization.
Meditate – Pray – stay tough – give yourself time – embrace the healing process. The human body is the great miracle of the self controled healing process. Discover what works for you.
Yoga & Ti Chi are regular activities for me these days and I feel most fortunate to say that although I don’t have much style any more I make more than my share of sections and go faster than most in the line up.
By the way, that reference at the top of the page is one hell of a book!
Have tried chiropractic? how much time did you spend with the other treatments you mentioned? Is there a defect in the pars? Once you have fusion the party moves on to the levels above or below the level of fusion. also with the fusion surfing will become more difficult, but after all other options are exhuasted surgery maybe the only option.
I broke my L4 & L5 playing american football in 1986 and had intense daily pain for the next 15 years. My injury will never fully heal and had the propensity to slip out of place at random until I started going to a chiroprator in 2001. Within 5 treatments, pain reduced to stiffness, 5 more treatments and no more daily stiffness. I get adjusted about every ten days and have had no problems since. I can’t even begin to tell you how much better I feel(my doc even came o my wedding). For maintenance, I do abdominal work and yoga. I work in home remodeling and surf 3-5 days per week, which may account for my frequent chiro treatments. I do get stiff on occasion, but no where near any of the pan and discomfort prior to chiro. That’s what works for me. Feel better, M