Postman,
i think that's the best thing,
u have the pro-boxes , use them, it's a great learning curve,
let us know how the board comes out ok...
best regards and good luck...
Deano
Thanks everyone for the advice. When the changes are made, I’ll update
this thread. The first change will be simple, taking the edge off the
front of the fins. Even though I’ll probably end with proboxes
installed, I’d like to see how these minor changes have an effect on
the performance. I’m definitely pay attention to my feet as pointed out by many, moving forward and backward. I’ll take my time getting used to this board, then I’ll swap out the fins for further experimentation using probox. I take everyone’s advice seriously, but I can see that there are those who favor a little toe and those that don’t. My last bit of research will be to toe or not to toe when I set my probox. My feeling is that I’ll stick with a slight 1/8". I’ll keep you posted. Peace.
Postman
A personal anecdote for what its worth. I ride homemade fishes 90 percent of the time. Most will say the single foiled keels typically toe in 1/8 inch with about 2 degrees cant loosen up a board compared to double foils straight up with no toe in. Thats how I set the fins on mine. I have found it's not the single foil or cant and all that that loosens up the board, but speed. The faster I go, the looser it gets. One of my best boards was a 5-10 with double foiled keels, nine inch bases. A Rainbow Fin outline I cut out and foiled myself. The other was a 6-4, yes a 6-4, with double foiled fins inspired by Gephart. Fast and manueverable.
Big carving turns and cutbacks, high line pumping down the line speed runs. That's how I like to surf and that's why I ride fishes. I prefer double foils. The Gepharts from True Ames are beautiful, or make your own. Not that hard. Well, hard to foil as well as Gephart. Mike
Rooster,
Thanks Rooster. Likewise, I really like to generate speed, which is why I’m recently switched to riding fishes. For me more speed transaltes in to more maneuvers, turns and making previous unmakeable sections . Thanks too for the measurements Rooster. Peace.
Postman
So I’ve decided to leave the glass on fins in place for now. I had an amazing session in NJ today on my retro. The I’ve removed the sharpness from the front of the fin and paid extra attention to foot placement. The board performed amazingly! It’s funny b/c I was considering hacking off the fins this weekend sometime and dropping in the proboxes. For now, I’m going to continue to enjoy my retro with the glass ons. My probox fins I will have too save until I shape another board again in the spring. I have all the materials here waiting to be used. The next board will be 5’8" retro which I’ll throw the proboxes into. Although I now like my present fin setup, I’m leaning towards 0" toe and 0 degree cant on that board. When that is done or if I do eventually swap out my current fins I’ll post an update. Thanks for all the feedback in this thread and in the PM’s I received from many. Your help has been greatly appreciated. Keep the stoke!
Postman
stoked u got it to work!
wow! isn't amazing by changing the shape or foil of the fins what the fins can do?
have fun and enjoy it!
regards
Deano
Yeah Deano, the amount of variables involved is insane. I was totally hoping for someone on this thread to have a silver bullet for me and say this and this combo work the best. Instead, I get the feeling with fins, it’s more of this is what works best for me or the board I ride has these fin dimensions produced this kind of ride. It was really good feedback which produced a bigger picture for me of how important and complicated the fin system is. Deano, your system looks awesome. Best wishes to guys like you, Larry, Lokbox and other fellow shapers who continue to push the design envelope. Many Thanks.
Brian
it's a pleasure, i just hope more and more shapers see the importance of fins in overall performance of their boards and the value of understandiang and playing with fin shapes and positions.
best of luck,
Regards
Deano
[quote="$1"]
I was totally hoping for someone on this thread to have a silver bullet for me and say this and this combo work the best. Instead, I get the feeling with fins, it's more of this is what works best for me or the board I ride
[/quote]
There is no silver bullet, especially for finning fishes.. I learned this about 7 years ago when I made a fish with FCS plugs all over the tail, got a whole bag of fins, and loaned it to a bunch of different people. I told guys to try every fin combo they could think of and give the board back to me with their favorite set-up installed. I got it back all kinds of ways. The really funny thing was that one guy would say ''this thing sucked as a quad, but went great with keels'' while another said ''I couldn't even ride it with keels, but loved it as a quad''.
The point is, the board doesn't ride the wave by itself. The importance of the rider's inputs cannot be overstated. This leads to personal preference being VERY important in fin placement/size/template/etc.
Great experiment Mike with the FCS combinations. My present board has 1/8" toe and 4 degree cant with single foiled keels. My next one will be 0 cant and 0 toe and I look forward to seeing how it feels. That’s what’s great about shaping, you get to see what works best for you. Thanks a ton bro, the feedback has been great here, I’ve learned so much. Keep the stoke.
Brian
Mike, I totally agree! I think it was in '98 when i got my 1st Larry Maibles fish with I think 9 fcs plugs. I tried every position possible and only liked it with the keels. I had 2 other friends who ordered same boards as i did. They on the other hand hated the Keels and loved the Twinzer and Quad setup, which I thought sucked. At the time, we had at least 25 yrs.each surfing under our belts in Hawaii. So this wasnt like due to inexperience or lack of knowledge with the design. All of us had ridden fishes growing up and surfing in the early 70's. So like the old saying goes
( Diffrent Strokes for Different Folks.........) In the end I think it's all about enjoying what's under your feet, making your stoke for waves a even greater experience.
"The point is, the board doesn't ride the wave by itself. The importance of the rider's inputs cannot be overstated. This leads to personal preference being VERY important in fin placement/size/template/etc. "
Exactly! that's why when it comes to selling the right board to a surfer, the shapers experience is one thing but the surfer is a major component of how that board is going to perform.
the reality is, the only thing that CAN CHANGE are the fins! this can lead to and either happy or NOT so happy customer... it's really the make or break of a surfer's perception of how well a board goes...
the more we undrestand about our fins , their function and positional relationship for each surfer, the sooner we will begin to see our customer base grow year after year...
Well said Mike!
Thanks for the affirmation, guys. IMO this is one of those instances where it's best for each individual to find what works best for THEM. It makes a good case for fin systems that (through template/material choices, adjustability, etc.) allow the rider to tune the board.
Really enjoyable thread.
My 2c is , yes - I spoke to two famous shapers at the Oz Fish fry , ten paces apart … one extolled the virtues of double foiled keels , the other , single foiled.
Different strokes …