Need bit o help w/ leash plug installation in SUP

actually, not leash plugs but those round black plugs used in sailboards to approximate what you see in the following photo but i bet the installation is the same:

I’m not going to be able to do as nice a job with matching colors and whatnot but in my case it won’t matter that much – i’m going to do handles but put them in further and the plugs at least will be covered by a pad. FYI, my SUP is epoxy

here are my questions:

– what drill bit makes the cleanest cut: spade or hole?

– from searches here on Swaylocks, I gather I want to make the hole for the inserts as tight fitting as possible, correct?

– the advice I’ve read here concerning epoxy and leash plugs is not always consistent. do I want to fill the hole a little, let things set up, then push in the plug, then try to stuff some more epoxy around it? or would it be enuf to fill the hole maybe 1/3 or a bit more, shove the plug in so the epoxy squishes out, clean that up and call it a day?

– what kind of epoxy should i use? i’ve seen recommendations for the every day 5-minute stuff. will that work okay?

– any other tips you might share so i can make the job look as good as possible given various limitations of skill and even common sense, most days?

thanks!

I did a few of those inserts (8) on my fishing surfboard to install grab handles. You do it pretty much like leash plugs. I use whatever drill bit or hole saw that I have available that is closest to the desired hole size. I would drill the hole about 1/8" larger than the insert on all sides. Tape off the working area to limit the epoxy flow. I would use Fiberglass Hawaii (2 to 1) or RR epoxy mixed with some white pigment. Lay two or three 6 oz. pieces of fiberglass cloth in the hole, pore in some epoxy and push in the inserts. After dried, I would grind down flush with the deck. I would cap it with two layers of 6 oz. fiberglass cloth. (If you are going to mix color with epoxy to do the cap glass, be sure to mark the center of the insert. I use a sewing pins for this.) Hot coat, sand, gloss coat, wet sand and polish. I would drill the starter holes in the insert for the screws.

I hope this helps.

D

Hi jasperson,

Quote:

here are my questions:

– what drill bit makes the cleanest cut: spade or hole?

– from searches here on Swaylocks, I gather I want to make the hole for the inserts as tight fitting as possible, correct?

– the advice I’ve read here concerning epoxy and leash plugs is not always consistent. do I want to fill the hole a little, let things set up, then push in the plug, then try to stuff some more epoxy around it? or would it be enuf to fill the hole maybe 1/3 or a bit more, shove the plug in so the epoxy squishes out, clean that up and call it a day?

– what kind of epoxy should i use? i’ve seen recommendations for the every day 5-minute stuff. will that work okay?

– any other tips you might share so i can make the job look as good as possible given various limitations of skill and even common sense, most days?

Let’s see - in order;

A spade or paddle bit- well, once you get into the glass, it may start to chatter some, and that can get very ugly. Very fast. oval holes going in directions you don’t want. Please be kind and don’t ask how I found that out.

A hole saw will do a nice job, although you want to be careful that the pilot drill isn’t set too far beyond the saw teeth. The problems with that are kinda obvious, but you’d be surprised how often somebody forgets it.

Also, tape around the body of the hole saw, so you have the depth gauged and don’t go too far. Please don’t ask, etc.

But that just cuts you a cylinder, that you need to pop out of the hole somehow, a situation that can also have its problems. So, what I’d suggest is what’s called a Forstner bit (http://swaylocks.com/swaylopedia/index.cgi?Forstner_Bit ) which is made for drilling flat bottomed holes in wood. If you can find one with a bit of a sawtooth edge along the bottom, that’s ideal.

If the plug is kinda small diameter, say under 3/4" diameter, and as I recall some of the windsurfer foot strap mounting plugs are that sort of size, then a brad point woodworker’s bit is nice. Better yet, you can get them cheap, and you can get stop collars for 'em to get the depth of the hole just right. Your better quality woodworkers stores will have 'em.

How big a bit? Well, as Uncle D says, you want a few layers of cloth in there too, resin alone won’t do an especially good job, particularly if you are using the handles as handles. You’ll pop 'em out the first time the wind catches it.

So, maybe 1/8" to 3/16" larger than the diameter of the plug itself is gonna be good. Same goes for how deep to make the hole, though you want it to stand a little proud of the deck, so you can sand it flat. Setting it deeper than the deck is inviting problems with resin leaking into the plug, etc.

Now, as you’re using cloth in there, you have to do it all in one shot, you can’t put in a little and then do the rest, it’ll really mess with the cloth. Oh, and what I’d do is use a syatem like you’d use when replacing an FCS plug- tape down the cloth over the hole, cut an X in the cloth with a razor blade over the hole, wet out the cloth and pour some in the hole, stick the plug in and let it dry, with the pug just flush or a skosh high. Sand and hotcoat/gloss. Use clear resin if you’re doing it this way, or you can have a shot at pigmenting it if you’re feeling brave.

What kind of epoxy? Like Uncle D said, the RR or Fiberglass Hawaii will work fine, or the System Three or the RAKA. Or the stuff your friendly neighborhood surf shop sells as an epoxy ding kit. The five minute stuff though, or most of the hardware store flavors - well, some are not recommended for use around wet condidtions and I found out ( the hard way, of course) that the five minute flavor tends to turn a cat-urine-yellow in the sun after a while. Which probably isn’t an effect you want.

Quote:

any other tips you might share so i can make the job look as good as possible given various limitations of skill and even common sense, most days?

Uhmmmm- take it slow and careful. Screwups are forever, and even if it’s gonna be under a pad, you’ll know it’s there.

Tape the top of the plugs carefully so that resin doesn’t get in while you’re installing 'em.

The screws you use to hold the straps on? Put a little wax on the threads before you screw 'em in: the stainless screw threads and the brass or stainless inserts or even plain plastic in a threaded plug can gall together and make it misery to get out someday if you don’t.

Make a jig or pattern working from the centerline/stringer to locate your holes. That way, they will be symmetrical. They may be in the wrong place, but they’ll at least be symmetrical. 1/4" plywood and double-stick tape are a good way to go.

Hope that’s of use

doc…

Holy Cow - Doc, I don’t care what your post is about (even though it was good, of course)…I’m just glad to see you back.

Hasn’t it been since the end of last year’s tourist season / restaurant escapade?

Hope you’re well. Never heard if you made it out for the Steamer Lane Kneelo Classic in January. I went down there for a surf during that, and hoped I might accidentally bump into you (you’d probably be ok, I don’t move that fast :slight_smile: ).

Edit: Oh yeah, leash plugs… end cap of 1/2" schedule 40 PVC pipe. 1" stainless steel roll pin from ACE Hardware. Epoxy. 50 Grit sandpaper. Hacksaw. Drill. Figure out the steps… Total cost, about $0.60. :slight_smile:

uncle d, doc!, and benny:

wow, what a load of great helpful information! reading it, though, i think that with cloth added to the equation, this is a job better left to someone with more skills than i currently possess; it’s a beautiful jimmy lewis 11’ and i’d hate to see me futz it up before it’s even been in the water once.

otoh, i think i’ve searched and read through about a gazillion message here about installing leash plugs and i believe this is the first time i’ve seen cloth recommended. did i miss something in all those other threads or are the stresses on my application – handles – going to be so different as to require the stuff? if that’s the case, nuff said. but, i mean, leash plugs must get yanked all the time all hither and yon and whatnot but even the stick-on ofishl plugs are just stuck on, no cloth called for.

thanks again for your help!

Quote:

…Oh yeah, leash plugs… end cap of 1/2" schedule 40 PVC pipe. 1" stainless steel roll pin from ACE Hardware. Epoxy. 50 Grit sandpaper. Hacksaw. Drill. Figure out the steps… Total cost, about $0.60. :slight_smile:

Wow, and thanks! I use PVC pipe & fittings for all kinds of non-plumbing applications (as you state, main virtue = CHEAP) but I would never have thought of using with resin. Epoxy doesn’t have a solvent effect? Any idea if PU does? One advantage of your pipe cap leash plug is that you could easily drill a few extra holes to enhance the resin flow & hold.

-Samiam

P.S. FWIW, I have found that the schedule 40 tubing itself is priced lower when sold as electrical conduit as compared to water pipe, at least at SLowes & Hummer Depravity. Makes absolutely no sense (if you read the data printed on it, it is exactly the same shizzle meeting exactly the same standards), therefore it must be a marketing thing…

Hi Benny,

Yeah, I’m alive and well, I even have a neurologist’s opinion and a wad of test results, scans and what have ya that things in my head are ‘normal’… which gives me pause right there. Suffice it to say that it got a little scary there for a while.

The restaurant biz is past, permanently. Gawd, I hated it. Last year I was working three jobs, better than - uhm, maybe ‘better’ isn’t the word - more than 100 hours a week. This year will be different: no restaurant nonsense, less surf shop and full time at commercial fishing.

Never made it to Steamer Lane, things just didn’t go that way. Spent and spending a lot of time in my new office:

The view from the ‘desk’ is great. And I have roughly another hundred boatloads like that to dig before the end of the year. Worst day I have, it’s still a boat ride.

But…back to our regularly scheduled question here…

The strain on handles tends to surprise ya. While I haven’t dealt with SUPs, I have dealt with lifeguard paddleboards and windsurfers and the things do get ripped regularly if they’re not in there pretty good. Competition-type paddleboards are notoriously lightly built (no glass around fin boxes or handles ) , and notorious for having fin box and handle problems. They may not weigh much, but when you catch some shorebreak just wrong while launching and hanging onto the handles, well, things go sour, y’know?

The same goes for leash plugs and for FCS plugs- I would far rather do the extra work than have to do the repair when something ripped out. And the way to strengthen it all is to tie it all into the glass on the deck ( or bottom, for fin plugs) 'cos there ain’t much strength in gluing to the foam.

Now, I wouldn’t hesitate to do the job myself, but I’m foolishly fearless. You might want to have your best local ding guy do the job for ya and pay him a little extra so you can watch and ask questions. Then, you’ll know how.

And, Sam- PVC doesn’t seem to be affected by poly resin, at least not polyester. We use PVC pipe all the time doing things on boats, with the nastiest boatyard polyester resin available, and it holds up fine. Though Vinyl Ester poly-type resins might be a bit different - Poly Vinyl Chloride might have a solvent issue with Vinyl Ester, never played with the combination.

hope that’s of use, and it’s good to be back

doc…

two cents from mr peanut in the gallery,

O’fishl glue downs are not invasive and

carlos q.public could install them

after his spring lobotomy

and tripple amputation.

a tube of zap a gap

and a few of the o’glue downs

and you will be good yo go

without cutting any holes in the roof

of that fine thailandia SUPasaurus.

blessing on you my son

where ever you choose to go

make mine watertight

…ambrose…

some fine clams there doc

nice to read your patois.

aloha

Doc, I like your office. Hopefully, the upshot of a scare like that is a crystal-clear view of life’s priorities…sounds like you took it that way :slight_smile: Welcome back.

I agree that PVC end caps seem as impervious to poly resin as to epoxy, but I use epoxy anyway. It tints fine, even the 5-minute stuff. I just sand the heck out of the outside of the cup, not really sand but hit it with a rasp. Never had one fail…

Doing multiples like on a stand-up, a guard board, or even one of those fishing boards, you could easily get a little production line going and knock them out incredibly fast & cheap.

I even made a little glove-compartment for a board once, with a cut chunk of 4" pvc female-threaded pipe and a flush-fitting lid. For a guy who’d lost too many keys. :slight_smile:

Quote:
Please be kind and don't ask how I found that out...

… Please don’t ask, etc.

hahaha… haha…

hmmm, maybe i’ll go w/ a couple of stick-ons, further apart and on the rails, and do a shoulder strap type deal. zap-a-gap? that’s the adhesive of choice? and riddle me this: when i realize i’ve put the ofishls in the wrong spot, is it an easy matter to just pop em off cleanly and move em, no harm done?

i like benny’s idea of the 4" pvc container as well. i hope to do a little fishing off the thing and it’d be a nice place for a few lures and what not. for a lure delivery system i’m thinking of going way old skool, with a Cuban reel (i.e., fishing line wrapped around a Coke bottle) that i’d store bungeed to the nose (more plugs please!), and i was planning on holding lures in the hollows of my paddle shaft. i still think that’s a good idea.

well, i couldn’t find any of the ofishl stick on plugs but i did buy a couple of Surfco Hawaii’s EZ-Plugs. Same idea, only these come with stickum already on the bottom of the plug. Just clean the board, sand a little and stick. Hope they hold!