Need help with big gun

General Discussion
1

Hello, this is the first time I post. I have been reading Swaylocks as a visitor for over 5 years now, not a shaper myself but I love to read and learn about surf vehicle design.

I am currently seeking advice on specific board dimensions for an Owl Chapman Sunset gun. Something with a lot of paddling power to catch waves way outside on deep water pointbreak/reefs with heavy offshores and currents. The board will be used mostly in double overhead waves similar to Sunset Beach. I don't mind being "over gunned" but want a board I can "comfortably" glide into medium-medium/large waves yet be able to use the board if I ever decide to paddle into some biggies. I have done some research on this type of gun and know it can be surfed with from 2'-4' Sunset Point all the way to 15' + real Sunset. Like I said, I will be using it mostly in 6'-8' hawaiian size but want to own something I can grow into as my physical condition, lungs and mental conditioning improves.

Currently I surf a roundpin single fin Junod longboard 9' X 18" X 22 1/2" X 14" X 2 7/8" from knee high all the way to double overhead tubes. At this size, 2XOH and bigger, it becomes challenging to control and the wide nose doesn't help with the off shores. This is my first single fin and I love it but I definitely need a gun. Depending on conditions I also ride a fish, a 9'10" heavy noserider, a 6'3" tri fin thruster, mat, bodyboard, do a lot of bodysurfing and I am learning to kneeboard so I am very open minded in my approach to surfing. I have been surfing for over 20 years and have surfed shortboards from the late 80's all the way through the 90's and 2000's (did the 6'1" X 18 1/4" X 2 1/4" thing when I was 160 lbs). I began longboarding in the 90's and I currently seldom ride my 3 fin. Currently I am 5'10" 215 lbs (160 lbs lean, rest is fat) and surf 2-3 times a week (have work and kid).

I have been trying to get a custom Owl Chapman through a friend who owns a surf shop in Puerto Rico (where I live) but it seems to be very difficult unless you go to Hawaii. Winter is around the corner, Hurricanes are pumping and yet no gun... A couple of weeks ago I talked with my friend and considered ordering a bonzer gun from Malcom Campbell instead, but I really don't know how a bonzer will feel and how a bonzer of similar dimensions will compare to the board I really want.

I was thinkin something between 9' and 9'6" or even 10'. Around 22" wide and 3 1/4"+ thick with really heavy glass for the off shores and a pulled in tail single fin. Nose around 13" to 14" wide??? Low entry rocker for the paddling. Mission: paddle current, catch wave way outside, glide into it, bottom turn, ride with wave and exit to the safety of the channel. Not interested in "performance surfing", just the ride... Will also use the board to train and develop paddling endurance when it's flat. By the way, I am not a wave hog, I just like the glide and If my weight was 175 lbs I would still want a board like that.

I was considering ordering from a local shaper with experience but I know I will need help with dimensions as I doubt anyone in Puerto Rico has ever shaped a board like this.

Does anyone here own an Owl Chapman gun similar to the one I want and can post dimensions: Outline, Foil, Rails, Rocker, Bottom Contour, Fin Placement, Glass Job etc? Any help and/or advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

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Wow!

Interesting post,,,, Welcome to Sway's

I am no gun guru and can only sugest a few things

But first a pic of the Owl Chapman gun that you want would help a lot

I wouldnt be suprized if it didnt resemble a Bing Pipeliner or a Brewer or a Noll from days of yor

If your riding a longboard in dbl OH tubes then you frikin awsom

Maybe just taking that Junode out line and pulling in the nose is all you need for the outline

do up a gun bottom,,, belly forward and V in the aft, stick a raked single fin on it and go for it,,,,,

I would go big 10 ft or maybe 11 will get you in way early ,,, if you got the speed,,,

Please keep us posted

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You're describing the kind of board I love to make.    Too bad you're not in So Cal.

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junod can make you a great gun like you want

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I've had a few Chapman guns, and I have taken the templates off of a few or them. Owl use a much fuller and thicker template than standard guns.   He keeps his deck volume all the way out to the rails, then does a turn down rail.  The deck volume will be 3 inches + all the way out to the break in the deck rail.........No deck dome on his boards. Also he makes a beak nose over the thin foiled modern guns.  His Sunset guns have a slightly fuller outlike than a standard gun. 22.5 or 23 inch width is not uncommon, and you won't see many 18.5 0r 19 inch guns in his designs.

Bottom contours are forward vee to double to vee out the tail.  He uses the rawson 9'1A from US blanks and doesn't do much tweeking of the rocker.  If you'd like more information pm me.  I'm not sure he'd like me spilling the beans on his work, and if he found out he might blackball me or try to sue me......or hack me up with his sureform form?  He can be a wierd dude sometimes.

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Hey Sealman, 

What do you know about Owlman being weird ?

pics or video welcome!

seal city Terschelling…

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Very cool, got some answers in less than 24 hrs. Thanks!

Ken, I agree 10' would be a good length to start getting used to a real gun. I only ride a log in bigger waves out of necesity (thats why I need a gun jejeje) I think double overhead is pushing the performance limits of that specific longboard. I have owned semi guns in the 7' to 7'6" range when I was younger and lighter but sold my 7'6" to a friend a couple of years ago because I started gainig muscle and got heavier, then got married and then came the fat jejeje. I believe the board I am looking for is more like a brewer 70's style than a pipeliner. There is currently a very funny thread about a 10'6"  that's got 2 great photos of a light blue single fin brewer similar to the one I was thinking of.

http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/i-missed-class-106-quad-fin-gun?page=3#comment-1387437

 

Mr. Bill Thrailkill, wow, you are a living legend. I have heard that your guns are great (for those who appreciate functional boards unlike the kid on the 10'6" lightweight quad post). It would be awsome to get a board shaped by you and I feel honored that you answered my post, thank you. Please I would love to hear your points of view of why you like to shape this type of board so much and the performace characteristics of this design as well as riding tips. I don't know how the logisticts and costs of getting a board this big from California to PR would be, please send me a message if you have this info, Delta cargo I guess. I have been twice to California and love it (all those pointbreaks) but I don't know when I will come back to visit (I will someday).

Anyway I am still looking for options and I am considering working with a local shaper (mainly because of logistics) who builds good guns he rides himself but I am sure nobody has ever shaped a board like this in PR so I will probably need a lot of advice if I decide to work with him and if he decides to take the job. Today most people prefer "modern" shapes, a lot of people at Tres Palmas are riding Stretch quads but I am a bit hard headed and have been focused on getting a big heavy single fin for almost 2 years now. There's a surf shop that brings Brewers, but then again... logistics. I have talked to the owner but I think that this year will be impossible.

Resinhead, thanks for the info on your guns. I have heard and read stories about Mr Chapman but I have a good friend who knows him from the 70's and tells me that yes he can be a little "strange" but that he is a very nice and cool guy and a great surfer and shaper, maybe one of the best. It is inspiring to see that at his age he stills surf Sunset Beach regularly and doesn't believe in leashes... plus his poor eyesight. I have seen some old footage of him and he also used to surf Pipeline with great style. Anyway I will send you a message to see if you can help me. Don't worry, I wont sell his secrets and trust me, if I lived in Hawaii I would surely be one of his clients. Thank you. By the way, does anyone know if it is possible to order a board from him through 3 Stone Glassing?... remember, I live in Puerto Rico.

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That brewer is very nice

definetly an eye catcher

 

 

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Hey mate, I’m holding on to a board for a friend which is exactly like what you are looking for. 10’8" x 21 3/4" x10 1/4"n x 10 1/8" t x 3 3/4" thick. Board was shaped in Hawaii by Iman, Country Surfboards 2001. Its a big thick single fin w/ box pintail. It was owned by Chris Tillman from Kauai. You gotta come check this board out at our new factory in Isabela. We can reference this board to build for you. Shop factory ph # 787.609.6198. Saludos

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Aloha Tony ,

welcome to sway's bro .

I have a friend who lives in Oahu , surfs mainly Sunset and Jakos point when it's big.

he is a one quiver guy , thus using the same board also for small surf .

he will SWEAR by his Awl Chapman.

I cant remember the exact dim's but the board was 10'+ , looked like a longboard , wide nose and tail , single fin ,  heavy glass

the nose was just a bit pointy  ( wide and pointy just at the tip)   .  I think 3 stringers.

he loves Awl Chapman and use to talk only good about him.

try talking with Awl , he should be able to shape you the board you want.

 

If I may suggest,  call Mike Tuten  ( MTD ) , he's a real master shaper , lives and shapes on the north shore , sugarmilll.

Check with him as well because he is a wonderfull man and super gifted craftsman with tons of surfboard knowledge.

if you talk to him say Aloha from Lee .

good luck

 

Lee Jordan

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     Howzit wouter, I knew Owl back in the early 70's while living on the Norh Shore and he was not weird just a non-BS guy. Had some great talks and surf sessions with him. He was a Brewer pupil shaper and an intelligent guy. Aloha,Kokua

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http://mollusksurfshop.com/shop/surfboards/shapers/junod/101-junod-gun/

 

=)

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OK, I already have a pretty good Idea of what we are going to do. Jaudon will be shaping the board. I know I made a good choice for the job because he is an experienced gun shaper with over 25 years of experience, rides his boards in huge surf and lives here in Puerto Rico...excellent.

We placed an order for a US-Blanks 10'6" A today and basically the blank will be used to it's maximum thickness, width and length possible. The board will be a flat deck, down rail, beak nose 70's style single fin gun ohh yea!!! I love the dimensions of this blank because basically the outline is done, all we need is wide point forward and to pull in the pin tail. I guess gun design is all about simple, functional lines. This will be my biggest board yet, I have a 9'10" noserider and used to have a 10'1" longboard but this will be a paddling beast. Do I sound stoked?

Well I guess it's strange for a 33 yr old to want a singlefin gun but I rarely ride 3 fins anymore and love the feel of my 9' singlefin longboard on a wide variety of waves. Guess I am addicted to glide cause most of the time it's either that board or the surf mat...

Jaudon suggested a FU box for the gun because of the possibility of adjusting or changing the fin depending on the surf conditions but I am more inclined to a glass on fin. What do you guys think? The board will have a leash loop so I would prefer to leave the board without any fin box drilling too. What fin do you recommend for a 10' something Brewer Chapman like board, how far up the pin tail should it be glassed?

Jaudon, thank you very much for your time and patience, I know the board will ride great.

I promise to post photos when it's done.

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I would never do a glass-on fin on a new  untested design.   

fin placement  and fin shape can chage a board so dramaticaly it's actually a gift to have the chance to play

and tune your board.   unless your shaper is really confident about the fin and its placement , I think you should go for a box fin.

 

about leash loop , leash drill or leash plug... probably personal preference,  I really like the drills,  they are classic ,nice , smooth and super strong.

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Chinook fin box and a goon loop is the way to go. Take advantage of different fins, foils and placements for various wave conditions. Whats a leash drill? Cordage thru the fin box?

 

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Hello Greg, yes a leash drill is a hole drilled through the box from one side of the board to the other then a string is tied with a figure 8 or a simple knot and the loop of string is passed from the box through the hole so that it sticks out on the deck and since the diameter of the knot is greater than the hole’s diameter then it will stay there no matter how strong the pull of the leash. The only way it can give is that either the string or the leash or the tail breaks. It’s my second favorite option after the resin loop. The only thing I don’t like about it is that you drill right through the stringer although I have yet to see a board which breaks at that point.

There are pros and cons to a glass on, besides what has been stated. There is also the ease of traveling with a removable fin. In my opinion, some of the pros of glass ons include: the solid feel, a box eventually gets a little loose and the fin has to be fit into it either with tape or by adding a hair of resin to the fin and then sanding it to a tight fit. Also, there is the fact that you eventually adjust to a board with a glass on instead of adjusting the fin to you and having to deal with so many variables. Plus if you really need to tune down a glass on you can always sand it. I do recognize that glass on fin placement is critical and that is mainly why I am asking about fin selection and placement for this type of board which is an old 70’s design. I also agree that yes, a fin box is more practical.

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Sorry for the lack of spacing on my last post, I posted it from my phone and somehow the spaces didn't appear on the post.

I got another thing for the gun experts at swaylocks to think about and it could be a good topic for the discussion of 3 fins vs single fins in big wave guns. After reading the archives, a post titled "single fins for big wave guns" and Parmenter's article on anatomy of a surfboard I noticed Parmenter's description of a 10' Brewer type traditional single fin gun and the amount of tail rocker on it. He states that the tail rocker is around 1.75" on a very pinny, wide point forward pararel rail board with a 9" deep 6" base singlefin. It seems like very little rocker compared to the 3"+ used on today's 3 fin guns. I think I understood that the low tail rocker goes along with the narrow pin, the single fin and the pararel rails/wide point forward thick volume on this type of gun to add to the drive off the bottom and the down the line ability to make sections.

I have been told by many that such a low rocker is bad for guns because it doesn't help with making steep drops but then they are probably talking from a 3 fins background (with no disrespect intended) which I guess is a whole different animal. I also read somewhere that this low rocker is compensated with V for turning ability and that this V gives some more rocker to the tail rails. Are 70's guns a sacrifice of less "making the drop ability" for a gain in drive or do the v and narrow pin compensate for this lack of rocker? How much V is needed, 1/4" in the back 1/3? (this would make the rail rocker 2") I also know that the lines drawn on a single are different than in a 3 fin and that singles are turned up from the tail instead of stepping on the fin like in a 3 fin. Is Parmenter right (I guess he is) about the 1.75" rocker and if so, how far up should the fin be placed? I am thinking that the pintail being so narrow would penetrate the water very well and compensate on the drop somehow for this lack of rocker.

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good question regarding rocker Tony Lion. i'm interested to hear about that too. i've heard that single fins can be finicky about tail rocker. i remember Bill Thrailkill making a comment about V vs tail rocker in single fin guns. something about how one was better to use than the other similar effect with less sacrificed. hopefully Bill Thrailkill will chime in... it would also be good to hear from Bill Barnfield and Deadshaper... have you seen these threads?: http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/8-ft-owl-bruce-fowler-single-fin-gun

 

http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/single-fins-big-wave-guns

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I think it’s a good question to open a discussion about the amount of gun tail rocker in single fins vs other fin configurations as well as how this rocker plays in conjunction with V, outline and foil. I guess In my case we will just try to leave the natural rocker of the blank without much tweaking but I am just curious about what Parmenters states, 1.75" seems low compared to 3". I trust my shaper but I am just very curious about surfboard design and like to read other peoples points of view. Would a 3" gun rocker affect negatively the other elements of this design and if so, can it be compensated with a bigger fin (10" x 6 1/2" )? Anyone?

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I am getting ready to purchase a 10’6" gun blank. Will be watching this thread.