I'm just a backyard builder caught in the addiction of making boards and would appreciate any advice you can give me on a couple of things. I have made a few hollow woooden boards and one foam - all previsly with epoxy. I have picked up a 9'6 blank and am wanting to try to switch to the convenience of the UV kicking poly. I've looked over so many articles in archives but am still struggling with a few things.
1. having never used poly before - it seems a lot more viscous and therefore easier to wet out the glass for laps than the epoxy, but I simply have no idea how much to buy. I was planning on 2x6 oz top and 1x6oz bottom for both. Any ideas on how much poly resin I should need for both. A reasonable amount of waste is not a concern, I'd rather glass the floor with a bit of runoff than not get things right.
2. In regards to the poly resin, are there any thoughts on the timing of the 2 layers of 6oz on deck. Here's what I was thinking.
Tape off deck and glass bottom in 6oz.
Kick it, flip it, cut and sand the lap.
Tape off bottom and glass first deck layer of 6 oz. kick it.
Glass second deck layer of 6oz.
Sand, Fill coat etc.
Question is whether it is necessary to do the two 6oz sperately or just lay them both up together. I did my HWS with 2x6oz and wet them out together. result was OK but a LOT of sanding. Thought i could perhaps stagger the 2 lams this time as they wrap onto the bottom.
Finally - do i need to buy laminating resin AND filler resin, are all the glassing layers done with the same UV catalyst and basic laminating resin.
1st I do the bottom with lap onto deck with UV rez.
Then I do a deck patch on the top with UV rez.
Then I sand the lap smooth.
Then I do the second deck lap onto the bottom with UV rez.
Then all sanding/hot coats I do with regular resin with a liquid catalyst.
I do the two deck layers separate because it’s easy to not get the two layers saturated and you don’t want dry spots on the deck. Better to be safe. One gallon of rez is cutting it close on a board that size so you should probably buy two. Also DON"T do the hot coat with UV if you moving the board outside for your UV exposer because you end up disturbing the wax/surfacing agent that has floated to the surface when your moving it and what you get is a second layer of tacky un-sandable resin. It took me a while and lots of $ in sand paper to figure that out. UV is nice for the laminating because it gives you lots of time to get your saturation good…kind of like working with epoxy. Laminating a big 9’6" is hard enough without having to rush. The hot coat is a simple application with a brush so the job is not so time sensitive. Therefor a good shot of liquid hardener along with the surfacing agent, brush it on and then go have lunch. By the time you come back your ready to do the other side.
But two gallons of laminating resin, some UV catalyst, some regular liquid catalyst, and some surfacing agent additive to make sanding resin.
You don't have to ask quick questions about UV resin. Just slow down, take your time with your questions. But once they see the light of day, look out! They get answered quick!
Howzit chris, Buy laminating resin to lay up the boards and then get Surfacing agent that when added to lam resin makes it sanding resin, that way you make only as much sanding resin that you need for your hot coats. Get some catalyst and use it for the hot coats since using UV for hot coats can be tricky, kick it with the catalyst and after it kicks and the wax has risen to the surface put the board in the sun to cure it fast. Aloha,Kokua
Really appreciate the feedback, particularly re the use of UV for hot coats. Having used epoxy previously one of the advantages of Poly is the sanding "friedliness" - would have been a shame to undermine that through a dodgy UV hotcoat.
Billy - your method for layup was pretty similar to what I had in mind, just ends up as i read it with two layers of 6oz wrapping the rail not three as i would have aimed for. Sounds a bit easier though in terms of sanding.
All this quarts, gallons, ounces stuff does my head in but I think from reading a million posts I have it.
Get a couple of gallons laminating resin, quart of wax/styrene, some "Sunbake" resin and regular catalyst
29mls per Litre (1oz per quart) of wax/styrene to make filler coat.
12-15mls per litre (0.5 oz per quart) of catalyst to resin for filler coat
10 mls sunbake resin per litre for UV kick off for lamination.
600mls of finest ale per layup. Ingested at leisure.
You should try to find the UV powder additive because then you will only need the two gallons of Laminating resin. (not sure what you mean by sunbake resin) You would then just mix you lam resin with some powdered UV catalyst to do your laminating and then add some powdered UV catalyst and surfacing agent to do the sand coat. I think you can get UV powder from Sun Cure on-line. Kokua was right that if you want to do the sand coat UV as well then you would just add the liquid catalyst along with the UV powder and then let it sit…untouched… until it starts to go off and THEN take it out in the sun for the finish cure.
Being a backyarder i love UV poly resin. I add MEKP to the hotcoat like has been said, as its pretty easy, just pour, then brush it, lengthwise strokes, then sideways strokes, and leave it.
There ya go stingray. I’m all updated with my location listed! I also like long walks on the beach, soft music and woman who arn’t afraid to sit alone on the beach. And where am I going? I can only guess!
I just made the jump from epoxy to the UV poly. You are going to freak out how fast you can finish a board.
I've been pretty good about keeping track on how much a given board size will take for a given layup with epoxy. So far the rough rule of thumb has been about 2 ounces more per side over the epoxy just to get you close. Because nothing is catalyzed you can use more but less is a minor hassle to add more to the pot during laminating.
Beause of my anxiety of wasting expensive epoxy on the floor and the over all mess I just laminate with uv poly the same as I would with epoxy. At room temp 85F it has the same viscosity as the RR epoxy. Field and top of rails with a yellow squeege, short nap hotdog roller for the laps. Got to use extra on the laps over the epoxy as the poly is a bit different than the epoxy. Just before taking it out into the sun I'll go over the laps with the squeege to get them flat as possible.
Sanding coats have been tricky. I haven't been using catalyst unless it's cloudy. Only had one that was tacky. The biggest problem is that you can get into the habit of rushing. No need to rush. Apply the sanding resin, walk it out and then leave it alone for awhile. Let the wax rise and the brush marks to flatten out. I haven't had the wax sink into the resin as the previous poster said during the move into the sun but I've only done 8 with the UV. Once I got into the habit of waiting the problems went away.
Sanding is a joke. Takes me half the time compared to the epoxy.
Howzit DMP, Just use catalyst for the hot coats and after it kicks then take the board outside for a good cure. As far was I as concerned even one tacky board was too many. Another thing is what ever resin with no catalyst is left over after laminating can just be put back in the container and used next time. I really miss you guys and I know you are taking good care of the North Shore. Aloha,Kokua
PS If I had known you were going to get into poly I could have turned you on to a lot of materials when I moved
Headed to work driving down Kunia road this morning to the H-1, I could see traffic was a mess so I turned around to go home & finish glassing a board sitting on the rack. At 9AM I cut 2 layers of 4oz & some toe patches for the deck lam on a 6’ thruster (I had intsalled fin boxes & lammed the bottom Sunday morning). About 18 minutes to laminate, about 5 minutes in the sun ready to hotcoat. About 4 minutes to hotcoat, another 5 minutes in the sun to sandable. the deck lam and deck hotcoat using the same batch of 20oz of lam resin I poured out at 9:15. Put the drip tray in the sun, all wet resin is now hard & no more poly resin smell by 10AM. Keep in mind I’m not in any rush, this is pretty standard
8’ @ 14 sec from the WNW with light variable winds … so I threw a twinny in the car and was surfing the north shore 35 minutes later. never did make it to work today!
I appreciate the offer, but I didn't even consider trying the poly. Going up to Johns shop was a nightmare smelling the horrid fumes of the poly. I couldn't get that smell out of my mind or nose for hours.
Did a few boards for my kids with the UV poly just as an experiment and it was a revelation. For some reason the UV stuff isn't too bad. Plus almost no acetone. When I'm done any cups or rags get flashed in the sun so very little residual resin laying around.
Also all the pu boards I made with epoxy look bad. Wrinkles, sunken foam, yellowing. It has been bad for my small business. I pretty much shot my self in the foot by using epoxy on the pu, no orders. I'm lucky I don't have to feed my family with board making.
As a challenge to myself and no orders I took the last one of the Ice9 blanks I had and shaped and glassed it in 2 days with glass ons. Started the morning of day one and was riding the board by the afternoon of day two. I would have been done sooner but it was cloudy in the afternoon of day one.
I know that that's entirely un-impressive but for a guy that has been doing only epoxy it's like its over before you start. Also to do a board that fast is like a fantasy. As a kid I still have vivid memories of waiting and waiting forever, weeks and months sometimes for that new board. Is it done yet? You all know the drill. Absolute torture for a kid.
Now it's like Ha! Visualize the board, make the board, ride the board! Sweet sweet revenge.
im sort of in same boat, i have used epoxy only since i shape in my garage/backyard. Although between the cost of epoxy and possible prbs with PU and epoxy combo i was going to give UV resin a shot.
The only thing im not sure is I live in New England and right now Sun/UV index is around 1-3. Does anyone know or tried UV resin in the north/winter. Im guessing i need to add mekp?
A little mekp is a good idea as Kokua suggested. I used to do all UV during the mid '90's on the Central Calif. Coast. Morning overcast but they would still go off. Didn't use a UV box. If it was sunny I didn't catalyze. On the hotcoat I would walk it outside and just hold it in the sun for a count of ten or fifteen. Flip it over and count the same for the rail/lap. Take it back inside, set it on the rack for awhile to let the wax rise. Once I could see the wax (slight cloudy haze), I would put it outside to completly set while I did something else for awhile. If you've got good sun or a UV box you do not need catalyst. I also as mentioned above used a roller on the rails and then flattened them with a yellow squeege. The whole operation was a piece of cake. The smell comes from catalyzed resin. UV without catalyst is nothing. Just a slight resin smell. If you put one UV bulb above your glassing rack, you can turn that on and flash any resin on the floor or drip rack. A drip rack is a good idea to save resin. I wouldn't even clean my roller. Just set it down in the resin bucket covered with resin and then put a dark towel or T-shirt over it. I would use acetone for cleaning my squeege and gloves only. Use a white fabric roller and any fiber that comes of the roller isn't seen and comes off when you sand the hotcoat.
PS------------- If you roll a little resin around the bottom edge of the rail/lap before you start to squeege the lam the cloth will stick better while you are doing your lap. Remember no matter what resin you are using work the rails from mid board toward the ends when doing the lap. If you put a little resin underneath as I suggested your relief cuts at the nose and tail won't fall and will lay down better.
Howzit McDing, Let me set the record straight that I never put any catalyst in UV resin for laminations. I would use it for Plugs, fin systems, hot coats and pigment lam jobs, but for tints and clears it was just UV resin, that way any excess resin went back into the big tub for future use Aloha,Kokua