Just discovered this new epoxy and love the results. It is DMC epoxy and you can order it from fiberglasswarehouse.com or you can just go to the store in La Mesa. Before, I used the RR epoxy but the DMC costs about as much as polyester and I actually think it is easier to work with because it wets out the cloth much better. I put additive F in the sanding coats and it sanded just like RR. There is a big negative and that is the fact that it yellows very very fast. A simple solution is to add pigment to all the coats. So now it is actually cheaper to build an epoxy then a polyester board because I’m paying the same for the resin and I can use less cloth.
Hi LBS, Thanks for the review. I am also looking for cheaper alternatives. Anyone out there try this company? $68 for a 1.5Gal set sounds pretty good. They are also in San Diego. http://jgreer.com/index.htm
I have not tried that company, but I’ve seen his stuff before on ebay and his prices are good, plus his feedback is excellent (something like 2800 transactions and no complaints). They are out by QComm stadium, I believe. Let us know if you try them out.
hey guys. just remember that cheap epoxys are made with cheap ingreadents… greg went out of his way to make his epoxy fairly safe to use, the safety aspect is one thing that your paying for… be extra careful with the cheap stuff, fear the rash…
maybe the yellowing is the reason for it being so cheap? remember you get what you pay for. If you want a top quality product you use top quality materials! I use to say I will buy the cheap stuff but in the end I always end up buying the top quality stuff to replace the cheap shit I bought first trying to save a buck. there is always a reason something is so cheap it is because it just plain cheap quality.
yeah Keith
I’ve been watching that ebay epoxy vendor for a while too
be nice to get some feedback
And to tell you the truth if Greg’s stuff was the best epoxy in the world he’d be retired by now from the sales he’d make in aerospace, construction, and marine builds.
Epoxy has been around a long long time and I’m sure it’s industry market value is in the billions.
I wonder how cheap the epoxy was that they used to glue-on those bolted steel panels in the Boston big dig tunnels that came crashing down and killed that innocent lady in the car.
There was a tv special on glue recently that talked alot about the historical evolution of these chemicals and the types bonds they form… Very enlightening the whole concept of glues
And to tell you the truth if Greg’s stuff was the best epoxy in the world he’d be retired by now from the sales he’d make in aerospace, construction, and marine builds.
Maybe Greg IS retired.
What is retirement? Staying home to watch Oprah? Seems to me like he’s living the dream.
As far as big sales numbers, please consider:
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the competition outside of surfboard building…there are so many players it’ll make you dizzy.
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surfboard guys still prefer pupe
And besides, only Greg and a few others truly know the numbers.
ps - there was a famous business man in my state…founded a small biotech company (Coulter) in the 1980’s…grew like crazy…one thousand plus employees, hundreds of millions in sales. Of course by the 1990’s the old man was a multi-millionaire, but he still drove his original 1975 Chevy to work everyday, and lived in a modest house.
I have had major yellowing with the $38 bucks a pop (More than RR) stuff I got at TAP plastics locally, so I may just try one of these. I don’t mind if it’s amber, which is stated clearly in the ony from Jgreer.com, as my board is already all yellow from the TAP stuff.
Oh, I was wondering, do you guys think it’s easier/harder to get the mix right depending on the ratio? Say, is a 2:1 easier than a 4:1 or does it make any difference?
the ratio of the resin has a lot to do with how it works. it is not just a convience thing… you’ll have the best luck using a scale either way, be sure to get the correct ratios…
remember the word “epoxy” covers a huge range of producst, saying “epoxy” is about as unspacific as saying “glue” and most epoxys are designed to be painted over…
I just shaped and glassed a board using the 300/21 epoxy It was easy to work with and the guy is personable. I mixed it using Dixy cups and an eyeball guess. It dried fairly hard and clear.
The test will be in how it holds up to my heavy feet. By the way I suck at glassing so even if it does not hold up it might be my inability to get all the airbubbles out and the fact I used thinsulate foam as my foam choice.
blush, brittle, yellowing, volatile diamines that’ll give you the rash and screw you for life, shitty working times, hard to meter 5:1 mixes rather than 2:1 mixes (seriously…if you’ve got a 5:1 and end up a little short making it 4:1, you’re screwed), poor sanding, bad glass wet-out, low Tg temps and on and on and on and on.
cheap glue is exactly that; cheap glue.
a well designed epoxy, purpose built for making surfboards is available. You wanna use something else? Go for it and be forewarned of the above mentioned problems. You will encounter them all at one time or another…
doubt greg will chime in here to defend his case, but seriously…come ON guys. How many epoxies have you tried and how many are as nice to work with as RR?
Leave the cheap glues for the guys making waterslides and truck canopies…they can make extras for warranty when their crap breaks in an untimely fashion. You wanna save 20$ on a board you just spent 3 hours planning, 2 hours shaping, 3 hours glassing and finishing, only to have it screwed up by crap resin??? Go for it…and then spend the 20 on the case of beer we’ll consume while you complain about how all of your work went down the tube.
Also something worth mentioning. Changing color is not the only problem. Its also UV rot, which will destabilize the composite and lead to premature failure.
I have used Resin Research 2000 with very good results - no complaints at all, great product. But what is wrong with looking into low cost alternatives for the sake of experimentation? Remember Benny’s $14 blank?
FWIW - the 300/21 sytem uses a non-blushing, cylcoaliphatic hardener and is mixed 2:1.
LOL!
fk’n post of the year bro!!!
I just ordered a quart of the 300/21, I’ll report on it when I use it. I talked to the guy, he pigmented it black for me for free, I figured this was a perfect color to cover up the imperfections in my blank, he said it was very opaque. Besides, with a sanded finish (At least on top) it will have that “Stealth fighter” look to it, maybe airbrush some white pinstrips after it’s done or something. Should look sweet.
Was just looking this up for a friend, and realized I’d never given thawt update. My board turned out hideous, but that was more my choice of glass and skill level than anything else. The jgreer epoxy worked perfectly fine, much much nicer than the other stuff I’d used, and it also held up well. Due to my horrible construction abilities at the time the board developed a leak and the foam has been somewhat compromised but the epoxy is still holding strong.
Nathan
I've used his stuff for the inner glass on a compsand. No worries about yellowing there. He has a FAQ on his website that address the concerns (yellowing, etc) that have been raised here. An honest business guy based on my experience. He carries different products used in composites and mold making industry. He is quite helpful in answering questions. http://www.jgreer.com/epoxy%20faq's.htm
I have been using John Greer resin for the last 15 boards or so. I really like the stuff. The resin comes from DOW chemical so it isn’t crap, if people are concerned about it being cheap. I was just there the other day to pick up some resin and they were out of hardener, but their shipment was coming from DOW. So here are my pros and cons (remember I am just a back yard guy)
Pros-
Inexpensive resin, long work time, wets out the cloth better than RR, it has a very low viscosity so no need for any kind of thinner, you can use it with RR fast hardener if you want to turn a board out quick with no negative effect, works great with pigments
Cons-
It does yellow a little faster than RR, they only sell one speed hardener
I am sure I am going get rocks thrown my way, but I have tried RR and I do like, but I can turn out a board that is just as tough with the john greer stuff. I have done a few polyester boards and 2 Resin-X boards to date and I keep going back the john greer stuff. For me it just works, but that is not to say it will work for everyone.
Cheers,
Mike
Nicely put, GWN. In case you all don’t know, GWN is one of the true experts on this forum regarding resin and chemistry.
I’ll just pose the question "what is your time worth?’ I spend a lot of time on my shapes (I’m annal and slow) and a lot of time on the other materials. I just don’t build so many boards that saving, what, $15 per board? makes it worthwhile to use inferior resin. Cheap resin is not a bargain any more than cheap tools are a bargain.
BTW, GL is having way too much fun to actually quit the biz.
i pay about 7$us a liter for epoxy and its very good
i never heard so much wanking as on this site about epoxy
the epoxy brand i use is not cheap, its just not expensive