In one of the 4 part “Wood is Good” series with Tom Wegener at Patagonia, he shows an Alaia with slots in the bottom and he said it didn’t work.
It might be comparing apples to oranges but that series is worth a look before you make up your mind. It makes for some some fun viewing no matter what you decide.
Bob Miller (the guy who actually shapes my finless boards) was talking with his brother about this whole finless project of ours; at home and at sways…
Long night staying up using toys and napkins for ideas, basically asked me that same thing as bjis just stated. That they thought a lot about how that would actually work at higher speeds… how would it hold? A channel or concave running through the center of the board would be able to go faster in line with the wave and you would not have to squat on the rear corner of the tail (which I might add, is almost required on my boards).
Although I have had limited experience on my alaia, I find it different than foam. I spent some time on it in some clean fast waves, although small, it worked incredibly well. Fast down the line; I could carve or turn (whatever you want to call it) all in all felt wonderful. My alaia also has no concave. Flat bottom with a V in the tail. That is it.
In those same waves my finless fish was slower and I had to crouch down much more. Front foot on the left side of the stringer and back foot on the right side of the stringer; offset and low. I could not make any sections that came down in front of me but, MUCH more control. Carving in the pocket, spins ect.
I don’t think better or worse are words that work for me.
Rather what outcome am I trying to achieve.
Plus its fun figuring it out along the way.
And who knows what works for some people and not for others?
Well said Brian,
it’s not about better or worse, but definitely different. I too found that the channel bottom foam board requires a much lower stance, and definitely spins better. It rides like aboard with tiny fins, while the alaia rides more like a snowboard or wakeboard.
And most importantly, it’s all just about fun!!!
Hey Sonnycheeba
the double roll/concave bottom curve is vastly superior to channels or grooves.
Keep posting pics of your board, it looks awesome !
Cheers,
BJ
hey thanks bj for the suggestions. iam not sure i understand exactly what a double roll concave bottom looks like. i understand what your saying about the channels creating turbulance and giving the board less traction. that makes a lot of sense know.
Hey sonnycheeba,
I struggle to describe it accurrately so here’s a pic. This is the tail of an alaia shown with the board lying bottom up. I’ve yet to try it on a foam board, but I’ve used variations of it on about 20 different length/shape alaia’s and I’ve found that it holds in well even in steep overhead waves.
In a foam rockered board, my guess would be that it would work best by having the concave start just under the front foot, and run the whole way out to the tail. The deepest part of the concave should be underfoot, and then flattening it out slightly toward the tail.
I’m in the process of building one of these myself, so I’ll let you know once I’ve tested it.
Cheers,
BJ.
i thinking of making a finless board for the hell of it. the blank is only 5'4" . i dont have any templates that small so i just took a 5'10" template for the front half and the tail of a 6'2" fish template and connected them about 19" up from the tail. i was thinking of adding some deep single concaves down to about 20 inches from tail then splitting off to 3 deep concaves running off the tail.because of the the dual stringers i thought it would be easiest to run the concaves between the stringer and on either side.because ive never made o finnless board iam not sure of the depth of the concaves. i was thinking of going about 3/8" at the deepest. any suggestions? the blank is 3 inches thick eps
Why don’t you add boxes, then you could try it with/without fins. I did a similar outline last summer, a rockered out 5’2 x 19-3/4 x 2-5/16 with an almost full length super deep concave. It is a blast to ride, will go just about anywhere on a wave, turn square on a dime, kinda like the bar of soap in a bathtub analogy but you really have to keep it constantly moving.
Bjis,
I haven’t had to chance to ride one yet but that thing looks fun man.
I have 0 experience with finless boards but have been thinking of cranking one out for quite some time. I was thinking a single to double deep concave out the back with V. Have the concave steep at the rail for a sharp edge (maybe even inverted?). Here is a tail slice of what I was thinking. Also a triple banger for the double stringer.
Keep up the good work
thats a nice lookin little board you got there for sure. and iam very tempted to just put some fins on and make a killer little fish. but this project is more of an experement to see what concaves and channels by themselves can do for performance. and ill never know that until i make one and ride it . might work but probably wont . in any case at least ill learn a little something along the way
ya man i think ill still try and do the triple concave. like the one you drew at the bottom starting at about an inch deep and fadeing up to about 4 inches from center.
hey BJ in your experience with finnless boards would a hard edge running further up the board than usual provide more hold on the face?
This is where finless boards get weird. Hard edges don’t hold, they release. A flat bottom board with a hard edge will slide out no matter what. A hard edge with a rail to rail concave will hold in fairly fat slow waves but will slide out once it steepens. The simplest bottom shape for a finless board is a rolled belly which tapers up to hard edges. The belly, like in a displacement hull, creates downward pressure which will hold the board into the face, even on fairly steep waves. The hard edge helps to release the water from the edge of the board without interrupting the pressure caused by the rolled bottom.
The reason we use concaves combined with a rolled bottom (belly) is because alaia’s ride better when they’re narrow, there’s less surface area which means less hold. The concave adds more surface area to the bottom of the board, giving the water further to travel across (diagonally) the bottom of the board. This increases the hold, even deep in the pocket, while still keeping the board narrow, which makes rail to rail transitions easier and faster.
Sorry for the long winded response. It’s really difficult to explain this in writing.
Cheers,
BJ.
after reading bj’s suggestions iam not sure this shape would be best for a finnless.the narrower double rolled raised edge seems like the way to go bj. thanks heaps bro! i am going to put some keels on it i think. i did add the deep triple concave . i have no idea what this will do for control but cant wait to find out. since its a 5’4" i left alot of foam up front. heres some pics of work so far
what the? i cant post pics huh
Don’t give up, I want to see the triple banger…
Did you try the far right button “insert or update an embedded image” (camera button not the tree button)
[img_assist|nid=1030201|title=test|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=301|height=255]
[img_assist|nid=1030202|title=triple banger|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=480|height=640]
[img_assist|nid=1030203|title=triple banger|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=640|height=480]
You’ll definitely turn a few heads with that thing.
Exotic
Look like fun.
If you go with keels, I wonder what extreme cant (positive or negative / in or out) would do with the triple banger?
Or just use two turbo tunnels!!! 
… but seriously, since this board is keyed towards experimentation, are you going to use probox? … 'cause it would definitely be fun to be able to try your fins at some different cants. I’m stoked to see it finished and hear the ride report… I love the outline! When next I make a fish I will be referring back to this thread and getting close to that initial outline I think… looks like a beauty.
Good luck!
