North shore wood board "CHALLENGE'' progress PHOTO page

General Discussion
1

I hearby install tis nobel* begining

of a long lasting thread of photos

and links of all thee swell boards

from the ‘‘challengers’’

who are hard on working

to complete dragon fliers

and king kong ripasaurs

and dual overhead droppers

this thread should fill up

with hundreds of photes

easy. and my name

will be repaeted endlessly

…ambrose…

send money to unicef.

polosurfer.com @ ralf lauren on the ginza

*like the prize from the dynamite invertor

from sweeden[dint them chinese invent black powder?

but it took nobel to feel guilty about it.

2

These are the plans we’re working off of. We may go with a 4 layer board using solid pieces of balsa at 90 degrees for layers 2 and 3, but my brother wants to be as close to the real thing as possible. A swaylocks friend on Oahu has expressed a desire to donate 14’ long pieces of wood that will be just right for the top and bottom.

We may even use some of our precious stash of wiliwili for the rail pieces of layers 2 and 4 if we do a 5 layer hollow board.

This is going to be a slow and deliberate process, so don’t expect much for a while. We’ll be sure to document the process, maybe even videotape it for all the world to see, or just for us, or better yet, maybe we’ll make it available for a little kala (and I ain’t talking fish).

To all those caught up in the BS, I say chill and keep checking in. The early posts were a lot of fun. Then it got ugly. Bashing each other doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense, especially if this thing ends up working. I bet this board would be fun on the east or west coast of the US in mid sized waves.



3

Sharkcountry, all of our boards can be built using the 4 layer balsa method which you mention, in fact that’s the method we used exclusively for the first 6 years, and was used for all the first 12 footers. . . so it IS the real thing most definitely !

The balsa 4 layer method gives an excellent flex characteristic, and is much faster to build, I’d say go for it if you have some balsa, but over to you.

Regards,

Roy

PS I can send you out the full sized planshape and rocker templates again if you like (hasn’t Rhino got the ones sent previously ?). . . we have a nice new 120 metre roll of strong drafting paper, so it’s no sweat and would save you from having to plot the curves.

.

4
Quote:

To all those caught up in the BS, I say chill and keep checking in. The early posts were a lot of fun. Then it got ugly. Bashing each other doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense, especially if this thing ends up working. I bet this board would be fun on the east or west coast of the US in mid sized waves.

SharkyCountry: Thats why I deleted my connection to the other circle jerk thread. When you guys get it done, give us a date, we’ll be there. I’ll bring the beer, popcorn, and whatever cash I can scrounge up. I think your board has the best chance of doing this thing. You and Bernie keep up the good work!

Hope no one get hurt, but looking for a train wreck…because everybody likes to slow down and gawk.

-resinhead

5

Thanks Roy,

A new set of full sized plans would be easier for us. I think it’d be good if the person that has our original set send it back. That would be the right thing to do.

6

Hey Resinhead your posts were the best, yours and Carve’s. I laughed so hard. It will be fun to see you guys again. We can have another picnic with all the other guys. Be cool to see everyone again, have some beer, eat some of Dennis’ barbq. That was a fun day. Maybe we can get Carve to chance riding the beast as a SUP.

Everyone should all take turns riding the board in small surf somewhere like inside haleiwa, then we can sign the board. Hey of it goes well we could take over Lani’s and trade it off for one ride each. Nothing like 20 guys paddling out to one spot.

7

Thanks Roy

a full size print out would help but like the boards it depends on how long it takes to get here from NZ though…

in any case I already took a blown up PDF of the rib jpeg to Kinkos and for $23 I’ll get a full size print of the ribs tomorrow.

And no…

Austin those plans are yours to keep I gave them to you for a reason so don’t listen to my silly brother.

The two best posts here on the building these things are listed below.

The first is Austin’s(Rhino) excellent write up posted here close to two years ago.

http://www.swaylocks.com/…orum.cgi?post=264897

The second is Roy’s Weapons of Mass Velocity post featuring his “thrusterbuster” design

http://www.swaylocks.com/…orum.cgi?post=246252

Some pre-build questions for you though Roy…

First

what happened to the pictures in your post as the links are no longer valid and from what I remember it was a good recap of the process. Being able to see the process would be a big help to WMV rookies like Ben and I.

Secondly

Mr. Nacho Libre is a big guy just like Ben. I figure well over 6’ and maybe 215-230lbs where as my brother is around 165lbs and I’m a short and stubby 200lbs so inorder to support the bigger guys like Ben, Jay and possibly Eric Haas what thickness do you recommend for each one of the panels which I believe are either 3/4" for panels 2/4 3/8" for panels 5/6 and 1/4" for panel 3. Giving us 13’9" x 24" x 2.5" in displacement.

So to float say 230lbs how thick do we need to go for each panel?

Third

Base on the rocker plans I am presuming that it’s a continuous curve for this 13’9" design from midpoint with 7" or radius at the nose and tail.

Am I correct?

Fourth

wood choices

1" Pine boards are the most readily available, cheapest and heaviest

Construction grade Redwood is also readily available, relatively cheap but also heavy

1" thick Cedar boards are also readily available, not so cheap and a tad lighter

Balsa will have to be ordered from the mainland and is very light by will be expensive

We also have access to small amounts of stringer quality spruce, semi dried wiliwili(hawaiian balsa), and paulownia.

There is some access to milled 8’ long by 1"or2" wide bamboo moulding boards that could be used for the cross beams in panels 2 and 4 for strength. I really hate to waste some of this hard to get wood if it’s not really needed.

suggestions?

Finally

have you ever used bisquits, dowels or tongue/groove joints to attach the hundreds of little internal components of the two internal skeletons togethor or is it just side to side glue-ups? I was thinking of using a canoe repair technique that Wirght Bowman taught to me when I used to hang at his shop on weekends as a boarder at Kamehameha Schools using bamboo skewers in tiny drill holes like expanding wooden nails. we used it to help him fix cracks in the hulls of wooden racing canoes.

Will the skeleton technique like the plans show save alot of weight? or does it no matter and we can make solid panels of angled boards? I’m really having some concerns about all that exposed end grain along the rail if we do that versus thos side pieces alond the rail whose grain pattern is aligne fore and aft like the top and bottom panels…

Sorry

and I apologize to the rest of the now bored crew…

but I’m sure some of this will help Ben too, even though he has easy access to balsa and end-grain balsa scrim for the rails (hint) around the block from his house.

Mahalo

I truly am a fool taking on another project but who knows maybe we’ll learn something in the process to help us elsewhere…

8

I have a mini-bisquit tool/bisquits, great for 1/4" and thicker. Home made clamps for glueups if needed. Easy to use. Strong joint/hold.

9
Quote:

Thanks Roy

a full size print out would help but like the boards it depends on how long it takes to get here from NZ though…

in any case I already took a blown up PDF of the rib jpeg to Kinkos and for $23 I’ll get a full size print of the ribs tomorrow.

Hi Oneula, That rib drawing isn’t exactly to scale it just shows the general layout so a full sized printout won’t help much, best just to start somewhere in the middle of the board with aframe running at 45 degrees and just work towards nose and tail from there

Quote:

First

what happened to the pictures in your post as the links are no longer valid and from what I remember it was a good recap of the process. Being able to see the process would be a big help to WMV rookies like Ben and I.

Lost in new computer chaos sorry, will post some pictures of panels here for you instead

Quote:

Secondly

Mr. Nacho Libre is a big guy just like Ben. I figure well over 6’ and maybe 215-230lbs where as my brother is around 165lbs and I’m a short and stubby 200lbs so inorder to support the bigger guys like Ben, Jay and possibly Eric Haas what thickness do you recommend for each one of the panels which I believe are either 3/4" for panels 2/4 3/8" for panels 5/6 and 1/4" for panel 3. Giving us 13’9" x 24" x 2.5" in displacement.

So to float say 230lbs how thick do we need to go for each panel?

That depends on the wood density, looking at your question below, and assuming that cheap and plentiful is good, then do you want to use pine and/or redwood? heavier wood means making a thicker board with thinner deck, bottom and frames, and it’s going to be heavier at the finish too, but that’s ok, just a different character to the board and a bit more demanding to get right… … best to decide on the wood first.

Do you have a tablesaw or bandsaw available ?

Quote:

Third

Base on the rocker plans I am presuming that it’s a continuous curve for this 13’9" design from midpoint with 7" or radius at the nose and tail.

Am I correct?

The Dragonboard is a continuous curve, we have added coordinates for the rocker so they can just be plotted rather than drawn with string and wire, will PM the link to the plans (which also have better instructions now too )

Quote:

have you ever used bisquits, dowels or tongue/groove joints to attach the hundreds of little internal components of the two internal skeletons togethor or is it just side to side glue-ups? I was thinking of using a canoe repair technique that Wirght Bowman taught to me when I used to hang at his shop on weekends as a boarder at Kamehameha Schools using bamboo skewers in tiny drill holes like expanding wooden nails. we used it to help him fix cracks in the hulls of wooden racing canoes.

Just side to side glue ups, using the KISS principle . . . . hold the work in place with bricks

Quote:

Will the skeleton technique like the plans show save alot of weight? or does it no matter and we can make solid panels of angled boards? I’m really having some concerns about all that exposed end grain along the rail if we do that versus thos side pieces alond the rail whose grain pattern is aligne fore and aft like the top and bottom panels…

Solid panels of angled boards are fine if it’s balsa, but not with heavier woods, yes the hollow skeleton system saves lots of weight.

Regarding end grain, we prefer to have all the grain in the blocks and frames running across the board as the end grain is so much tougher on the rail than sidegrain. . . . freaking out about end grain is a hangover from pre epoxy cotton and caulking iron days.

So, where you see the blocks runing fore and aft, you can run them the other way (parallel to the frames) if you like. . . it also helps with bending.

The reason we drew them fore and aft on the dragon plans is just so that they can be cut from narrower wood

Also, running the blocks fore and aft makes rail shaping trickier as it’s easy to get a lump where the frames come through. . . best if you can to run blocks and frames the same way. www.olosurfer.com/blocks%20and%20frames.html .

10

Good stuff, boys.

Roy, I agree about endgrain - unbeatable in compressive protection and the wicking is actually good…when you warm the resin so it flows like water :slight_smile:

Yes, I have both table saw & bandsaw. And thickness planer, jointer, drill press…lots of hand-held power tools…and even more bricks.

Can I do a lattice of balsa in each direction, each one about 3/4" thick, and then 1/4" skins of something more solid like redwood, going in the longitudinal direction, top & bottom? That would get me to 2" in only 4 plys and - with both balsa and air in the interior - be plenty lightweight.

Have to admit…getting excited about this. Put up or shut up time - nothing like building the real thing :slight_smile:

11

Benny, I think the Balsa layers need to be solid to eliminate the middle layer. At least that’s the way I interpret Roy’s comments.

Bernie and I talked about it and he reminded me that they would also need to be the same thickness, so adding in the missing 1/4" get’s tricky for us because the Balsa we can get is 3/4" thick or 1" thick.

We have all the same tools you have, but I don’t want to be sending all that Balsa through the thickness planer. Probably be better to add a 1/4" balsa middle layer to bring it up to spec.

12

Hi Benny, yes you can make a balsa lattice as decribed, with redwood or similar top and bottom, you will have to glass it of course, but you already do that stuff so no worries right?

.

13
Quote:

Benny, I think the Balsa layers need to be solid to eliminate the middle layer. At least that’s the way I interpret Roy’s comments.

Hi Sharkcountry, no they don’t need to be solid, but they can be, we have done them both ways. Did you see Rhino’s thread? He used the hollow 4 layer balsa method, it’s very quick and easy. . . and as Benny is planning to do, other wood can be used for deck and bottom skins

The middle layer can be left out completely, even when using narrow frames in the plans. . . it was added originally to give more glue contact between frame layers, but the boards are super strong without it, just pretend that the middle layer doesn’t exist. … the only time we use more than two inside layers now is if we are doing a tight nose rocker curve with hard timber on a thick board and need to use thinner layers to get the bend, but you won’t have that problem with the Dragonboard, and benny won’t have it with balsa even with a lot of nose lift.

Quote:

Bernie and I talked about it and he reminded me that they would also need to be the same thickness, so adding in the missing 1/4" get’s tricky for us because the Balsa we can get is 3/4" thick or 1" thick.

We have all the same tools you have, but I don’t want to be sending all that Balsa through the thickness planer. Probably be better to add a 1/4" balsa middle layer to bring it up to spec.

One inch balsa will work very well, two layer of one inch, plus say a quarter of harder timber top and bottom, giving two and a half, pretty much ideal especially as the balsa gives a lighter more buoyant board

Alternatively you can use two 3/4" inside layers and split one inch balsa boards down to 1/2 inch for deck and bottom panels, giving two and a half again.

Another alternative ( for a really super buoyant board would be two times 1 inch balsa for the middle layers and 1/2 inch balsa for the deck and bottom, giving a three inch thick board ( keep plenty of rail block width so that the rails can be pinched a little if you go this thick , and consider a 40/60 downrail so that the extra thickness is added to the top part of the rail)

Yet another variation, using short balsa planks is to run the deck and bottom planks diagonally to save having to scarf or slash join, this works very well, the deck planking meets the frames at 90 degrees which is ideal.

.

14

We could use up my agave if your going to break out the band saw.

A bit of a pain but it is light and looks great with balsa(Jim Phillips master piece).

It may require an extra six pack of Heineken

I think the balsa plans are 4ply?

My 10" compound slider miter saw may come in handy for all the little pieces.

See yah,

Ian