I am going to try a nose block on my next board. I searched the archives and there isn’t much on the subject. Basically I am planning to do it like I do tail blocks. I am going to cut two pieces, one for each side of the stringer, shape them close to what I want and then attach them to the nose. Then finish the shaping and blend it all in the with the nose. Any suggestions or tips would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks;
Frank
Figure out the degree of the miter,chop saw the 2 parts and epoxy them together. With the assembled block, draw the angle lightly on the blank. Saw just outsdie the line at the ends of where it exits the rail. This is because the foam sands away so much easier than the stringer. If the angle gets away from you, put a piece of wide tape over where you DON’T want to sand more and adjust the angle to fit. Believe me, it works like a champ, I did 25 Harbour’s with mitered nose blocks in one day by pre-assembling the blocks and installing in this manner
Hey Frank,
I like to shape the board completely but leave the tail and nose about 90% finish shaped. When ready for the nose and tail blocks I then saw off the surfboard equal to the width of the blocks using a sawing jig. I usually like about a 35 degree mitre for noseblocks. Use whatever glue and clamp setup you like to glue the mitre, but I find 60 sec epoxy is good. I hold with pressure on a flat smooth surface covered with wax paper until set then let it sit a while to cure completely before attaching to the board.
Position the block on the nose in exact spot and draw in the cut lines. To make the cut I make a jig and use a power hand saw - skillsaw (very fine plywood blade). I take a 3/4" plywood board (apx. 10" x 18" or so) and attach a strip of plywood as a straight-edge fence along its length to run the saw against. Affix the straight edge with glue and screws, run the saw across the board with the saw’s side running along the straitedge fence. The cutoff edge is now where you’ll place this jig over the marked line for the cut on your surfboard.
Clamp the jig carefully over the top of the surfboard using whatever shims, etc. to get it dead flat. Line the sawed edge of the new jig down the drawn line and make your cut on one side of the stringer. Re-clamp and set up on the opposite side of the nose, then cut it. The trick is to keep the cutting jig base flat on the top of the surfboard for each of the two cuts. You could also make a larger jig with two fences and make both cuts but the angle will have to be set permenantly.
When cut, use the 60 sec. epoxy. Set the surfboard on shaping rack or sawhorses with tail against a padded but firm object (wall). Position yourself at the front of the surfboard so you can coat the surfaces with epoxy and then push and apply your own pressure as you press on the pre-mitered nose block. I don’t pre-shape my blocks prior to glueing on. Just use a disc grinder to shape it all after the glue has set good, then plane, sand, and clean it into the shape of the surfboard.
Hopefully you get the picture. It’s just a jigged way of getting a nice even cut and tight glue-line without having to saw it by hand and sand it to fit. Good luck and enjoy the ride.
I’d love to see pictures of this jig/setup… I can’t quite see it in my mind’s eye…
This might make it a little clearer…then again, it might not…
Hey Keith,
Doc’s drawing/graphic is right on as usual. Let me know if you need more clarification, but with Doc’s drawing and a little imagination maybe you can improve what I do. I used it on my last three balsa boards and the glue line was perfect with no sanding or clean-up required after the saw cut.
One little trick that I find helps is to position the jig so that the saw just cuts to the pencil line at the point of the nose but just a “hair” (maybe an “Rch” or two) outside the pencil line where it exits the rail. In other words, so that the glued-up nose block is a slight wee more tight at the rails. As you use your hands for pressure during the glue-up with the epoxy it seems to make a tighter fit as the mitered nose blocks compress into the nose rails.
I would guess that J. Phillips and guys that have done hundreds of nose blocks can get equal results sawing by hand. Anyway, try whatever and I hope you get good results.
Aloha,
Richard
Jim’s method of using the handsaw is primarily because the angle of the miter cuts change with every board.A wide nose needs a different angle than a narrow one.Not to speak for Jim but he probably uses a sanding block to clean up the saw cuts(Or he used to when he taught me).Five minute epoxy is fine…just clamp with masking tape.Some folks use a hot glue gun with good results also.Wood blocks are easy compared to solid fiberglass.Jim does em perfect…as to how?I don’t have clue.Maybe he will fill us in.Jim??Jim??You %$#$% Haole…how do you went do em eh???
I’m kind of a router freak when it comes too foam. Never any tear out. All I do is once the board is glassed I take a sharpe pen and draw the nose block cut out on the board. Clamp a straight edge on the board right to the line, and cut it out with the router. do the other side. Glue the nose block on. draw the nose shape, shape it, glass it.
One cool thing to do is cut the nose, glue one side of the nose block on with the nose end of the block running a bit long. Now do the other side cutting board and long edge nose block piece. Now glue the other side of the nose block on and shape.
What i’ve found out doing it this way is that you can still get a dark resin tinted board and still get a super clear seeable nose block. A blood red board with a nice walnut and redwood nose block looks pretty nice. Also you can really shape the wood without any fear of messing up the foam. The wood is softer than the glass so it just the opposite, you have to worry about the wood more than foam.
-jay
I always enjoy reading about all the different methods used to do stuff around here… makes me want to try all of them for comparison. Jay, I have a board that the owner snapped the nose off, so it’s glassed already (well, mostly!) I may try your straight-edge/router combo on it just for fun.
thx for the pic, Doc…
Here is some trivial history that you may or may not know.Nose and tail blocks were first used on the old plank boards to keep water from weeping in to the end grain.It’s a good technique that goes back a zillion years on wood boats.Doc can tell you about that I reckon.Or as they are saying down south “I rectum”.We have the G-8 Summit going on in our neck of the woods right now.Yesterday there was a Green Protester sitting in a tree ranting about the cutting of timber.Well…this old Red Neck Cop calmly mentioned to him that the tree was dead already, and then pointed out the hornet nest on the other side.I think its gonna be on CNN with a picture of me and some others laughing like hell.
Thanks to everyone who responded, alot of insight there, hopefully I won’t screw this up beyond repair.
Frank
Being a woodworker I became interested in wood boards, and foam boards w/ wooden nose blocks. For many years, as I’ve stated before, I was next door neighbor to Renny Yater, and saw his work first hand. We started talking about exactly this subject and came up w/, a more eye appealing, curves nose block. After making two different curved forms, one for longboards and one for guns, it became apparent that the cuts of the foam removal would be very difficult w/ the angle of attack and the nose rocker of the boards. Jig saws just wouldn’t work well enough due to the deflection of the blade and the contours of the board itself. After a few idea trials and errors it was back to the hand saw, where you could see the line needed using the blade length as a line of reference. Those first boards were tedious and time consuming, but now “The Master” goes to it w/o much hesitation. With the curved wood nose blocks it became apparent that with the blocks pre-mitered together was a registration nightmare and a very hard task to pull off. The process was simplified by mitering to the center strip, or stringer, making it less of a compounded curve.
I have one he did for me that is a 9’0” gun and the curved nose block extending down the rail a good 16”- 18” or so.
I have also seen John Mellors great work with the curved nose block on a gun he made. Needless to say it helps to practice, and have the appropriate saw for the job. The Japanese pull saws work well.
On a side note – The Save the Wilderness Surf Shop party was a gas. It was something between Quinton Tarintino and Dog Town and Z boys. The pool in the back had a cheering crowd as skaters kept upping the ante. I bet they are still there…The Underground Live!
Guys— All of the above comments are great, all are valid. I have used several of the above techniques on both glassed and raw foam and under the right circumstance they all work. No matter what method you use,“get the miter right”(chop saw). Trace the block onto the board, leave a little excess to sand down for a good fit. The 60 second epoxy is great. I use my hot glue gun for tacking on glass-on fins, but was always afraid I would knock off a set of nose blocks while sanding and fine tuning, so prefer epoxy. After I’ve let them set up overnight(just to make sure ), I fine tune them with my sander, mini-block and hand sand. I don’t know if it was mentioned but sometimes I leave the stringer in and glue two seperate blocks mitered straight out of the stringer. I 've also set them back from the stringer, giving them an eyeball effect on either side of the stringer. If I’m worried about screwing up the foam I will put down tape to protect it. The Fin Guy at wwwthe fin-guy.com has nose blocks,for sale that are pre mitered at 35 degrees. I usually buy my wood at the hobby shop in strips up to 1 1/2". When I was on the Central Coast of Cal. Laws Hobby Shop in SLO always had plenty. But I admit I’ve also used redwood 'bender board" from the Depot . I match my woods as to hardness so that they sand uniformly. It’s the guys like Jim and Rennie who have a history with wood, who can really make them look beautiful. McDing.
Exactly - sap travels along the grain ( give or take those saps who climb dead trees and sit next to hornet’s nests ) and water travels just the same way. Ever see a board with a big balsa stringer and water discoloration all alongside it? From an itsy bitsy nose ding? Or a sodden balsa stringer rotted all along and wet nose to tail? A nose block will prevent that and the glue holding it on will act as a very nice moisture barrier. If you build a board with a wide balsa stringer, I’d say it’s almost a necessity. Probably be a fair retro fit item too.
Now… here’s one approach:
Yes, I left out a stringer - no biggie. I also used 45 degrees rather than another angle, adjust the angle to what fits your shape.
For cutting the foam, a router bit will work fine, if your bit is top-piloted and your angles are the same on both block and jig, or adjustthem a skosh as mentioned previously. Being an idiot, I didn’t mention that it’s probably a helluva sight easier to put your jig on the bottom of the blank rather than the deck. Shim it to paralell a line tangent to the nose rocker, then let drive with the router or a saber saw with a blade that you have cleverly dulled the top inch of, so it’ll ride nicely along the jig without cutting in. This will also give you a cut 90 degrees to the tangent line and jig too.
I’d think bandsawing or similar around the outer edge of your nose block ‘blank’ to get your outline shape would be a move, as there’s no better time to scribe both together and get the lines right. - then sand and rasp and etc to get the rail contours on the money.
Details - if you have a fairly thick block of wood also cut to this angle, what a nice gluing jig it’d make for assembling the two pieces of your nose block, a couple of clamps and some wax paper and there you are.
For starting the rail shape on the square edges of the wood, especially if it’s laminated wood, a bottom-piloted round-over bit for the router would be my choice. Removes a lot of stock pretty quick and without a lot of force on the block that’s glued to the foam. After all that trouble, you wouldn’t want to knock it off the board with an overly strong hit with a rasp.
This method, of course, can be simplified and used for tailblocks very nicely.
hope that’s of use
doc…
If the surfboard is flat on the bottom it is best to place the sawing jig on bottom. However when doing old-school boards with a slightly crowned bottom all the way through the nose you still have to shim the jig. If the board has been shaped correctly it is simply a matter of positioning the center of the sawing jig over the center stringer and placing shims of exact same thickness under each of the sides of the jig out at the rail area.
Once the tail / nose blocks are glued on (my choice is 60 sec. epoxy left to cure for a few hours), I trace the shape on the block and cut it out with a hand held jig or sabre saw, then shape with a 4" angle grinder with 24 or 36 gt. In a matter of a couple of minutes you can pretty much fine shape laminated blocks made of such woods as redwood, walnut, mahogany, koa, etc. right down to the foam.
Use “touch” in continuous fluid passing motions as in planing rail bands as opposed to just wristing back and forth which will only result in a mess of dished out grinded up areas. Leave the wood just “proud” or a hair higher than the foam cuz the grinder will eat away the foam big time faster than it will the wood, then feather it all in using wrasp, block plane, and sand. Smooth, easy, light touch motions near the end almost like you’re drawing.
For using the router to cut the angles on the nose of the surfboard, a pilot bearing bit is good or use a regular deep straight bit and just run the router base against the same straight-edge fence as on the sawing jig.
Lots of ways, no way is right or wrong, just pursue perfection and quality craftsmanship in order to feel good about your work and to enjoy the ride.
I read through this thread and I didn’t notice this tip. If you want to make your life a whole lot easier, wait until after the board is laminated to add your blocks. After you add and shape them, simply glass over them with a couple layers of 6oz. Then hotcoat the board etc. This way you don’t have to worry about chewing up the shaped blank when wrestling with the wood blocks. Also you don’t have to be so gentle with the board. I like to use a grinder/disk sander to rough them out. Nice and quick. Good luck, lots of good tips in this thread! -Carl
Doc’s description is the same approach that I use, pre assemble, but I cut off the waste 90 degrees to the deck rocker. The reason for this is, the rails fall away as they go around the nose, vertical to the horizon requires a lot more wood to cover the tip to bottom where it exits the rail. I made a nice length of material for noseblocks for one of our contributors and he cut it backwards, making it unusable, measure twice, cut once!
