I’ve heard various explanations about benefits of nose vee/roll. Some include rail to rail transitioning, easier take offs - the vee/roll penetrates or seperates the water as you try to paddle over the ledge, etc. One thing I think I’ve noticed with them, and I’m asking for opinions on this, is when you lean in on the forward rail and bank on the vee panel or roll, it seems to lift and free the tail as you pivot on the wide point… sort of like taking off the brakes as in a tail stall. Obviously this could be a liability in huge surf where you might want more tail in the water but in small to medium waves???
Hi John, Geoff McCoy is very highly thought of shaper down under. He shapes his boards with what he calls a loaded dome. His website’s pretty interesting. B.K. builds many of his boards with panel bottoms. How this affects dropping into the wave and paddling and dropping into a wave is subject that not easy to get a handle on. Personally I think rocker has a bigger effect then subtle bottom configuration in the nose of a board. As far as how this handles once your up and riding I know both ideas tend to ride slightly deeper in the water and create less lift than a flat bottom board, which makes the board quieter in the water and easier to control in choppy conditions. I haven’t ridden a McCoy but I have a B.K. and because each side breaks flat off the central vee the surface one either side of the board gives good lift one either rail and switching from rail to rail is very smooth as the panels are very subtle. The tail holds fine regardless of the how steep the wave wall is. I would think the McCoy would be very good in chop. He puts a lot of width in the tail of his boards. I’m sure this compensates for the lift lost by putting the dome in the forward part of the board. I’ll look forward to hearing what experienced shapers have to say on the subject. Mahalo, Rich
Take the fins off one of those boards and lay it on the floor - put some pressure on the deck like you were leaning into a forward rail turn and see what happens to the tail.
The only thing I ever felt with nose Vee was that it tube rides better. The reverse Vee boards of the late 80’s early 90’s were veed back a bit further and they definately were good in the pocket. Most of the time though the vee up front hardly touches the water. On paddling I never noticed a difference although there may have been some. I think Rich is right about rocker and paddling though.
The v or roll in the nose has some advantages in certain conditions. First, it helps the board stay in control on bumpy conditions, here rolled v rather than hard v to prevent catching the chop. Secondly, great assistance in late, critical drops, Thirdly, the v or roll causes drag which automatically pulls the front half of the board up into the pocket on hollow or steep waves which means the board does not have to be forced into position quite so much when you’re trying to stay high and things are getting critical. A board with very round rails up at the front can have similar effects as far as providing drag, but you start running into problems if the rails are to thick. Forthly, the v up front tends to straighten out the rail line a bit toward the nose which can provide some great speed off the bottom. You can also lose a little nose rocker in the process. Slight v or rolled v nose going to a single concave into double concave thru the fins gives you a straighter stringer line while keeping rail rocker in the right places. This is one of my favorite bottoms. also, a little v or roll helps boards with a wider nose get on the rail a bit easier. I don’t care how fast your wider board will plane, it won’t do you any good if the board surfs flat and won’t go on the rail. aloha, tom
Hi John, No doubt that as you move forward on the board you tend to take the rear third of the board out of trim and what you have up front takes over. Mahalo, Rich
What is reverse Vee? Thanks
Reverse vee was a design popularized by Maurice Cole in the early 90’s. Their apex of the vee generally was about 1/3 back from the nose and faded to a flat tail. This just preceded concave tails. Prior to reverse vee it was thought that vee in the tail was nessasary but the reverse vee proved that wrong. Today few high performance boards have much if any vee in the tail at all. I always have thought that reverse vee was one of the best tube riding designs ever and I still shape some today. On a wave like Escondido, Pipeline or other pure tube ride waves I can’t think of a better bottom design.
Although Maurice Cole popularized the reverse vee, he didn’t exactly invent it… in fact, my very first board was a reverse vee but they didn’t call it that back then. It was a transitional 7’10" Morey Pope “Deese Original” and had a fairly deep vee in the front third of the board. Richard Deese was a designer probably better known for his fins. Several years later ('72), I made a vee nose concave tail board for a friend - we didn’t call it a reverse vee either. Not enough tail rocker in retrospect but by all accounts a very fast board. Thanks to all for the input.
Thanks John, couldn’t remember the dude’s name. Thats’s exactly why I said, “he popularized it.”
Greg - I have no idea if he (Richard Deese) invented it… just that the idea goes back at least that far. After reading a story about old Hawaiian designs, I wouldn’t be surprised if the ancient Hawaiians tried it first… they seem to have tried most everything else.