Not a Hull: 1st build

madprofessor · August 24, 2010, 1:57am

First off I gotta say thanks to all the Swaylocks masterminds whos information I’ve been reading and digesting for the past 5 years. Also a thanks to Surferguy80 and peterg for some very usefull tips and information.

been working on building my 1st board for about 5 years now -at least that’s how long it’s been since I bought my block plane and surform. So finally this summer I ordered a 6’5" US Blanks fish blank with the idea that I would make myself a Hull. up here where I live there’s probably no more than two hulls in existence. shorty after I bought my blank I became the owner of one of those two Hulls - a 6’6" Tim Stamps Gremlin which I posted photos of on the 2nd Hul thread. In any case, my plan to build a Hull got convoluted since I didn’t want two Hulls.

I started off by designing an outline with Hull dims in mind. my final masonite template came out to 6’3" x 16" T x 22" (about 2" above centre) x 17" N x 2 3/4". I fished around for ideas about rocker on this thread. I also sent a message to Surferguy80 who graciously explained some basics about a tri-plane hull bottoms, how a shorter rail line would affect trim, and a little about rocker. thanks man!

Finally, a couple of friends and I built a community
shaping room and I was ready to start. I also built shaping stands, a
caliper, a FRED tool and several styles of sanding blocks.

I didn’t have access to a power planer so I went at it with my blocks plane to take off the hard shell and then a mix of block plane and 36 grit sanding block to foil it down. It took about 3 hours to foil and cut the outline. I enjoyed the meditative aspects of counting passes and checking for symetry. I am in no rush since I’ve got a deep quiver already. the dumbest thing I’ve done so far was to use a flexy saw to cut the outline. no major damage but a close call. one the first day I skinned it, cut the outline and cleaned it up.

The next day I focused on refining the foil a bit more and getting the blank down to thickness. Then I started the rail bands. It was a bit tough to do the rail bands with the Surform in that I had a hard time going nose to tail on both sides and getting the Surform to cut the same. so I went nose to tail on one side and tail to nose on the other to keep the same angle of approach. of course that created problems of it’s own. nothing I couldn’t fix though. taking it slow means that I have not made any big mistakes.

On the second day I also added a slight single concave which blends into a double, then a spiral vee out the back. The bottom part went pretty well and I feel happy although the doubles aren’t totally symetrical.

This board is having a bit of an identity crisis. I wanted to keep some of the hull elements but I also wanted it to ride like a modern egg. I know you can’t have both so this thing may be a dog. Today I thinned out the tail and nose to create an S deck. I also added a belly in the nose with thin rails like my Stamps hull. then I shaped 50/50 rails which blend to a hard edge about 17 inches from the tail -about where the front of the fin will be. I have a 9.5" inch Liddle Flex fin for it.

I will take some more photos of the rail profile, S deck and belly in the nose next time I get to shape. I reckon I have about two hours left of work to finish tuning the rails and finish cleaning everything up. I will also glass it myself. now that’s gonna be another story.

I’d be interested to hear what other designers think about using the modern single to double bottom with a Hull entry and forward placed flex fin. Am I just making a lemon? I plan on using a 10" box set at 7 inches so I can always push the fin back in homes that it will still ride like an egg.

I didn’t mention rocker -aside from the single concave, I did not adjust the rocker at all. I wanted to keep it flat as the blank would allow. -2" tail and around 4" nose

This board will be ridden in clean cobble stone point breaks in head high and under conditions.

afoaf · August 24, 2010, 3:24am

your handle seems incredibly appropriate…

; )

girvin · August 24, 2010, 4:12am

I just did a hull intry to a single to double concave spiral vee. Havn’t glassed it yet so we will see. Its a 5’0 x 20.5 x 2.5 mini simm/fish thingy.

madprofessor · August 24, 2010, 12:29pm

good to hear Girvin. thanks for the feedback. hope to ad to this thread some more soon.

madprofessor · August 24, 2010, 2:43pm

Questions about 2+1 set up. I noticed in another thread most people’s advice was to place the side-bites at 15" from the tail. I assume that you would do that if your center box was placed at 5" correct?

If my center box is placed at 7", should the fins be at 17"?

I planned on using a 9.5" Liddle flex fin but I also have a grip of other fins I can use like a 6" 4A, and some assorted sizes of Greenough template variations.

afoaf · August 24, 2010, 3:10pm

depending on what kind of sidebites you had in mind, you could always put in one of the shorter bahne boxes on the sides…this gives you some adjustment on the positioning of the bites depending on what you find works best in the big center box both in terms of fin type and position.

fibreglas fin co could make you custom side bites to fit the bahne setup (plate and screw)

girvin · August 24, 2010, 4:20pm

If you want ot to be a close cluster then yes. It will pivot alot easier. Or just Do Lokbox side boxes and have some adjustability.

surferguy80 · August 27, 2010, 7:04am

hull w/single or double goes soooo well…my favorite bottom shape for personal boards…she’ll be a goer!

LeeV · August 27, 2010, 4:13pm

[quote="$1"]

I'd be interested to hear what other designers think about using the modern single to double bottom with a Hull entry and forward placed flex fin. Am I just making a lemon? I plan on using a 10" box set at 7 inches so I can always push the fin back in homes that it will still ride like an egg.

[/quote]

No lemon, more like a peach (good thing)! I think it'll ride more like an egg than a "hull" because of the rocker and outline more than the concaves. The combo of 2" of tail rocker (a lot for a short "hull") and curve in the outline will take away the drive you get from the typical "hull". If you bladed out the rails, it'll get up on an edge and stay there but the shortness of rail line (due to the curve of the outline) will reduce the drive you normally get on a "hull". The concaves will flatten the rocker a bit for trimming but as soon as you engage the rail, the concaves will disengage and you will be using the rail rocker alone; a curvey rocker that will shorten your turn radius.

With a loose rocker and outline, I'll bet it'll run just fine as a single. If you can use boxes for the side bites, I'll bet you find the board is faster in a trim and drivier in turns without the bites.

As long as you are looking for a looser performing board, I think you will be really happy. If you've ridden a lot of "hull"s and are expecting the same feel and performance, it's going to be a lot different.

madprofessor · August 27, 2010, 4:45pm

hi leeV. thanks for the input. this sentence clarifies a lot:

“If you bladed out the rails, it’ll get up on an edge and stay there but
the shortness of rail line (due to the curve of the outline) will reduce
the drive you normally get on a ‘hull’.”

the rocker in my Aku file is not what I used. I only used AKU for the outline. one of the reasons I didn’t go for a full hull bottom was because of the rocker in the blank. I had already ordered the blank and being in Eastern Canada -let’s just say blanks are not easy to come by. I will blade out the rails for sure as well as thin out the tail a bit more. I used a US Blank 6’5" Fish blank which has a tail rocker of under 2". I placed the template all the way back to decrease the nose rocker and basically tried not to make any rocker adjustments on my fist ever shape.

my main goal with this board is to have fun learning how to shape. that’s why I chose not to copy an exisitng board. I figured that by coming up with something I’d never ridden would yield a new experience rather than being dissapointed that it didn’t ride like the original.

as for real Hulls - so far I’ve only ridden a 6’6" Tim Stamps (http://www2.swaylocks.com/node/1028072?page=49) . looking forward to riding one in the 7’ range one day. we’ve certainly got the waves for the design -clean long and perfect point breaks.

Matt · August 28, 2010, 8:28pm

we made some hulls with concaves in them -singles, doubles... they were slow. no drive. had to put a big, big fin in them or turn them into 2+1 setups

madprofessor · September 9, 2010, 12:48am

I’ve got to do some finish work still -mostly triming down the stringer and sanding out some scratches. this is my first ever shape and it’s been a ton of fun.

I wanted to be clear that this board is not a hull in the true sense of the design but I did borrow some elements. it has a rolled entry and knifey rails in the first 3rd of the board. I also scooped the nose to reduce swing weight - a la hull, and thined the tail a bit. otherwise it’s a modern egg with single to double, to spiral vee concave as well as modern rocker.

I will definitely shape more boards in the future. my next shape will likely be a performance thruster for our mellow point waves. that means it will be short, flat and fat.

madprofessor · January 20, 2011, 12:48am

It’s been a while since I worked on this thing -mostly due to waiting for resing, cloth and fin boxes. I made a jig for the center fin box and everything was going well till the bit bucked on the stringer and slung woodchips like a beaver.

I don’t think I’d install a singlefin box before the lamination again. it seems like less risk of damage to install a box on a finished board than on raw foam.

at this point I’m trying to figure if I can heat my detached garage enough to glass this thing. it’s hovering at 0 C. and below. I may just have to wait though I hate to put it off.

I have access to some resin tints and opaques but haven’t decided yet. may just keep it clear for my firts lamination job.

astevens · January 20, 2011, 1:03am

first off nice job on the board.

When I route out pre lam box holes, I cut stringer material first and then do foam perimiter second. This is for thruster center boxes though. For Longboard center boxes I do them after lam because the stringer on longboards and such are much wider. Although some shorties with the box do not have wide stringers. hope this helps, and keep up the good work.

madprofessor · January 20, 2011, 2:24am

thanks astevens. this has been a very rewarding process. I am actaully really looking forwarf to glassing. I think that being able to do both the glassing and shaping are of equal importance.

I had this thing sitting in my basement for so long that I tweaked on it a little. thinned out the rails some more and also added a shallow single concave on the deck under my front foot.

can’t wait to ride this thing.

fin positioning endeded up with center box at 7" side bites at 15" from the tail -and 15" from the string on the trailing edge and 14.5" on the leading edge. the photo below is from the fall. this is one of out lefts on a pretty good day. doesn’t really get much bigger than that but it’s a perfect wave when it’s good.

cornelyus · January 20, 2011, 11:48pm

if that is your first board… awesome!!

I didn’t try to go so thin on the tail and rails on my first and you just went for it!! Congrats

girvin · January 20, 2011, 4:18pm

Hey bro that bottom went nuts on that little fish I am ridding it today again in overhead pointbreak surf its the fastest board I have ever owned but def needs bigger fins

madprofessor · January 20, 2011, 4:31pm

hey Gervin. what’s too cold a temp to glass with poly? I have an unheated garage that I can glass in. I also have a space heater but not sure if that’s enough. it’s in and around 0 C. here in Halifax right now. I’ve read all the stuff about keeping the resin warm but I figure you do this everyday in B.C. I really wanna get this board in the water soon.

madprofessor · January 23, 2011, 8:09pm

here’s my first attempt to laminate a board. I had made a rail marking tool with the idea that I’d do a red bottom and red rail and keep the deck clear. well I didn’t do the math, my board is 22" wide and the cloth was the standard 4oz. and it wasn’t wide enough for the laps they way I’d taped them off. So I said the hell with this, ripped off the tape and paper and decided that the entire board would have to be the opaque red.

I made a few mistakes which in retrospect seemed reckless. my supports for the glassing rack were too wide so I couldn’ tuck the laps under without lifting the blank.

I waited too long to wet out the laps and so some material didn’t get enough resin.

I didn’t cut enough cloth off and test the tail curve to see how it would lay down so I now I have a cluster f%$k to fix.

I thought I’d add a little extra catalyst cause it was cold. bad move. joke on me.

The pre-lam Ofishl center box has been nothing but a pain in the rear so far. I hope it turns out OK. I tried triming the cloth with a brand new razor blade as I was told to do and honestly I’m not sure that I got the lamination pressed down well around the box. any suggestions? should I put a futball patch on it after I’ve sanded it down for reinsforcement?

Any idea on cleaning those laps before I laminate the deck? palm sander? or just a snading block and smoth them out.

it has 2 layers of 4oz. cloth on the bottom. the top will get a 3/4 path and 2 layers of 4oz.

madprofessor · January 24, 2011, 1:35am