With the sudden demise of the close tolorance PU Clark blank, the many BLANK SKINNERS, and BLANK SANDERS out there, are in for a real test. Block or slab EPS as a core material, will require a stepped up level of talent and craftsmanship to produce an acceptable or superior end result. Some will rise to the challenge, and a great many will not. The cream will rise, if there is any. What say you out there? Agree? Disagree? Will you make the CUT? (so to speak)
edit: I think it will be well worthwhile to attend the Cerritos College event that is upcoming. There will be some very capable people presenting, and there is a WEALTH of knowledge to be gained. I’ve attended two prior events and found them to be highly informative. You will too.
If one starts with a full block of eps foam (or any other material for that matter), there are bound to be some odd-looking initial atempts out there! A whole different visualization is required, different planer techniques, the whole bag. If, however, the hotwire-cutters make their services available, shaping in EPS isn’t too far off from what most of us have done over the past years. With a decently controlled set-up, you have enormous freedom in your rocker curves without mowing too much foam. I ‘shaped’ (more like shaped the rails and retouched the bottom) my first PS blank recently, off of a hotwire-cut rocker and template; it was a piece of cake and the result satisfactory.
The first time I went to shape a longboard out of balsa planks, however, was another story altogether. Getting a surfboard out of that rectangular mass was an interesting business… and then you adapt, learn to pre-cut your rocker, and the process smooths out nicely.
I suppose that’s an agreement to your position. Lots of learning curves to be followed: some will stick with it, some will simply find outsourced pu foam, and some will go onto something else.
I disagree. The big difference is the shaping machines, and nearly every shaper that does 200+ boards a year is at least familiar with them.
With some familiarity and knowledge, you can design a board on APS3000 in 15 minutes. The machine will cut the blank into a close tolerance finish shape for less than $30.
This is the fallback. If you cannot shape something that good by hand, you can use the machine.
In addition, the data on working shapes out there is immense. There are millions of boards out there by top shapers, and someone not accustomed to making their own rockerline can measure a half dozen shapes by top shapers and get their rockers and foils in the ballpark in no time.
There are many things available now that were unavailable in the 60s when the ability to cut a good rocker-line separated good shapers from others.
Anyone that cannot make a good rockerline today doesn’t deserve to be shaping boards for a living.
Even the theft of planshapes, rocker lines, and foils, require a skill level many don’t possess. You are correct about the machine, it can put you back in the blank sanding business. However I don’t think the small local guy, that makes 6 to 10 boards a year for self and freinds, will spend the money for the access.
I used to think that. Then an APS3000 moved into Pacifica. The small garage guys are among the most eager to use it. Why not? They are mostly very computer and numerically literate, many are used to computer design, and it takes them 10+ hours to roughshape a blank. Plus, the <$30 for the machine is a much smaller charge for them than it is for a shaper (time is money, and most of them make more than shapers in their day jobs).
And the resulting boards come out quite well.
Stealing planshapes and foils? That wasn’t what I implied. You can study them by measuring a half dozen boards, and use some combination as your design. Nearly every shaper that has started in the last 20 years has attempted to do this to get started. We are all thieves unless you shaped in the 50s and 60s when the basis for foils and rockers evolved.
But it is not tough to use the boards of others for comparison with your design. APS3000 lets you import a digital photo and background it to your shape. It then becomes fairly trivial to replicate some or all of someone else’s shape, or just use it as a basis for comparison.
The tools available for shaping today are enormously different than even 10 years ago. I’ve recently watched a friend shape his first three boards. The first one was really rideable but obviously amateur (shaped by hand). The next two (by machine) most excellent.
Add the RR epoxy in the mix, and you can just drop newspaper in your living room and glass there b/c the VOCs are so low. Or, drop it off at a glass shop just like the pros do.
Now, it is still possible to screw everything up. But with a reasonably thoughtful approach, you can get a really good shape out of some of your first three boards.
Bill - you have my complete admiration. “Shaper since 1958” and you’ve already been to BOTH previous Cerritos College seminars…you are a true forward-thinker. Thanks again for your contributions here.
Blakestah (good to see your move didn’t completely affect your Swaylocks particiaption) your post seems a little contradictory…
Do you think that shapers will just use machines?
Or do you think that guys who can’t cut a rocker line shouldn’t be shaping?
I mean, both could certainly be true. But you seem to support both opinions.
And Bill - I’m one of those 6-10 boards a year guys. My rocker lines are far from perfect, but I manipulate them in the vac bag & let the skins hold them true. Not as good as cutting them right from the beginning, but I’ve never used a machine. Its all in the eyeball, if not the hands.
Or do you think that guys who can’t cut a rocker line shouldn’t be shaping?
I mean, both could certainly be true. But you seem to support both opinions.
A reasonable understanding of rocker, foil, and planshape are necessary to produce even a mediocre board.
Those can be achieved through a variety of means. A friend of mine, Bill Hickey (shaper continuously since '58), eyeballs his rocker lines. I’ve measured the final products for comparison, and he is REALLY good. Another friend measured a bunch of rockers on his boards, and used the rockers in Essential Surfing, and designed his board on the APS software. It also came out really well. Completely different generations, and approaches, but for one the learning curve is a LOT shorter.
I think anyone starting shaping today who doesn’t use the machines is seeking someone more than just a good final shape.
i would like to agree with you Bill but im gonna have to disagree. it took me no time at all to make the transition, of which i made a few years ago. all the details on how to get there are well documented on this website
here’s my prophecy:
a year or two from now, the high performance guys will look back and say “man i should of made the transition long ago”
surftech is gonna make a killin’
the classicalists, traditionalists, nostalgics will feel some pain for a while IF they want a new board…BUT there is hope:
a. old boards are not going away
b. builders will figure out how to make the newer materials work (generate acceptable feel for the traditionalists)…some will learn faster than others
c. pu blanks from other places/countries will eventually fill the gaping hole in the market…its just gonna take time
im optimistic on this issue
and a special note to guys like lobster and turbohog: you guys are so locked into your box…always looking toward the past…you guys will suffer the most not because the answer isnt available to you, but because you refuse to free your mind from tradition…you can easily find an acceptable alternative…shoots man there’s stuff at friggin Ron Jon’s that you might love to ride…and it even costs less…just take your blinders off and youll see
definitely a bad time for traditionalists…but its only short term
I have to agree w/ you 100% Bill. This is going to seperate the craftsmen from the crapsmen.
I’m 100% crapsman who is having 100% crapfun. But I’ve got four virgin Clark blanks [6’9"A, 7’3", 8’8"E, 7’9"E triple stringer] waiting in the garage for me to destroy them with my crapsman techniques. Just waiting for spring before beginning the mayhem. Or I could sell them to an east coast [US] craftsman, for a premium. Let’s say $1000/blank, you pick-up, cash only in small bills, and take them all.
I’ll be able to learn how to shape EPS with the cash windfall. Unless that’s an unreal possibility for a crapsman like me. Tell me now before I ruin my life chasing the impossible dream of shaping big, ungainly chunks of EPS foam into sleak, sexy surfboards. I promise to meditate 6 minutes/day to achieve this goal. I’ll even try Yoga and brussel sprouts.
The crapsman.
PS - You might be able to save a 6’2"C which has been shaped into a fish and has the bottom lam done with a resin swirl. I’ll throw that puppy in for $1150.
Seems to me there are more people shaping their own boards these days than there were since the late 70s. Alternative materials opened up a new avenue that includes a variety of foams and the the hollow wood board boom. Shaping machines are available to newbies as well.
The most impressive thing I’ve seen from Swaylocks is how large the surfboard building world is. Places I would never have thought had surfers have very dedicated groups of people making boards. Really interesting to me because we take surfing for granted here, it is just another one of the things we did growing up. Everyone may have tried it, and many were really good when they did, but only certain people got involved to the point of making boards. I’m glad I learned the whole process and was exposed to EPS and epoxy before the Clark foam nightmare.
sharkcountry wrote:
“how large the surfboard building world is. Places I would never have thought had surfers have very dedicated groups of people making boards.”
The locations where people are interested in SB design are amazing.
To name a few:
Turkmenistan
Mongolia
Latvia
Israel
Russia
Poland
Germany
Switzerland
Czechia
and many more…
