okay now what?

With all the negative reaction to pop-outs and selling out of surftech, boardworks etc etc.

What’s the call on this?..

dropped off my brewer fat-fish at roys in kapahulu and stopped by blueplanetsurf to check out the new boardworks models and what do I see…

Chuck Andrus(Local Motion) fish and big boy fun board

Casey McCrystal fish and nice shortboards

Mike Hynson Hydrochief and real fine down railed quad fishes galor

and suprisingly…

2 Steve Forestall CODA models complete with the deck grooves… At first I couldn’t believe my eyes as Steve is often talked about here as a local demi-god of the counterculture EPS/XPS Resin Research board makers in florida… Even by Greg Loehr hiimself…

Well I guess now like Brewer, Merrick, Hynson, and Lynch, you can get his CODA designs in a pop-out version as well… Only problem is his 6’10" was going for $750 USD. I could by a Festools 5" Rotex and Model 22 Vacuum with 99% dust reduction for that amount of cash…

Also pretty funny in that I could go down to Town and Country and get a brand new Griffin or Rapoza 10’ performance longboard for $550. Or a high performance 9’ custom handshaped blank for $250.

I see a conflict or maybe a glimpse into the future…

I guess if you can beat-em you might as well join-em as Merrick said when he got voted shaper of the year …

I was a non-believer in the epoxy, molded, pop-out, wallet eater. Me and my buddies all had the same idea, leave the plastic pop-outs to the rich kids and geezers, and we’ll be just fine supporting our local shapers. Those imported do-dads are never gonna make it! That was me Until three years ago. I dropped into a friend’s shop to waste time and talk story and saw this board that just kept grabbing my attention. Every few minutes I’d pick it up, look down the rails, check out the bottom contour and rocker…just couldn’t leave it alone. It was a 6’10", Yancy Spencer, Big Guy Fish by Boardworks. Not a traditional fish by any means but the board really grabbed my attention. The owner had it on consignment for an incredibly low price so I bought it. Besides, I just sold two other boards so my wife wouldn’t be concerned about the price. Took out the tri-fins and installed the Futures 7" twin-fins with a small trailer in the center. That board became instant magic!!!

My buddies gave me hell for buying it. They still heckle me when I’m waxing it. They say it sounds like I’m waxing a giant tub of tupperware. Fine by me, one less person that’ll ask me if they can ride it. The thing is, the last three guys that did borrow it, loved it. I can comfortably ride it in anything from knee high to well overhead point waves and it performs perfectly.

I’m not writing this reply as a staunch supporter of mass produced, epoxy, popouts. My point is that this is one board that works exceptionally well for me. If it works for me then it must work for others. Now if that’s the case then I’m willing to bet that a good number of other designs work just as well for others. Well, there’s the beginning of your mass produced market. Good or bad it’s there.

With regard to the cost; I bought the board for $300.00 USD. A year later I lost it off the racks on the fwy and it was disintegrated by a monstrous motorcoach. Later that week I ordered a brand new one at full cost $500.00 USD. and have never regretted it. It’s not my only board but it is one of my favorites, which I plan to keep as long as possible.

I ride mostly my own shapes but every now and then one of those magic designs pops up (no pun intended) and you just have to grab it. And I don’t mean strictly epoxies.

P.S. Oneula, if I remember correctly, you have a 7’ McCoy Nugget popout. What’s the story behind that board?

Actually I have 3 Surftechs:

7’11" McCoy Nugget

7’0" Randy French

6’8" Al Merrick Flyer

I used to own the BW 7’0 Linden Squash in place of the Yancy.

I actually don’t have anything against them, in fact most of the guys I surf with ride them but only the longboards though i nfact I usually get to see the latest models and hear the critique from the team riders themselves like Rodney Nakasato… Always good to get feedback from guys who get to try them all and see what they settle with.

Very few folks I know ride the small boards except for the flyer but in hawaii what’d you expect with all the great shapers we have…

Anyway I thought it was hilarious as all the hardcore anti surftech folks kind of made CODA/Forestall some kind of anti-pop out do it yourself in EPS/RR Epoxy poster child. And here’s his boards as full Boardworks reproductions. So that’s were the “Now What?” came from…Kind of calling out all the homeboys from florida… But then again Kechele has some nice Surftech models to choose from too… Who knows maybe Brom and Pavel are next in line hell Hynson bit the dust…

By the way I tried that Yancy big boy fish as well as the Phat Pig model and neither worked for me but you should see the new Aipa, Andrus and Forestall fish models… very very nice… I believe there’s a picture of not so big ol’ Ben jamming one of his new Boardworks fishes back in a big slice on the surfermag design forum. And all the idiots are dissing him when absolutely now of them have any credentials for even opening there mouths against a guy like Ben Aipa in the first place…

I love my Nugget and the other two have their places when the waves call for them. If I wasn’t building my own now out of vacuumed balsa and epoxy I’d own the Mctavish 6’6" microdisk with center box, the Lynch 7’0" or Byrne 7’0" and maybe a Radcluster Longboard but again I think I have a better solution with what we are doing. You can’t beat wood.

Surftech-like boards are great for flotation and skippiness when you need to generate speed in gutless waves but they don’t carry momentum off the shoulder if you aren’t a surfer amped out on redbull or something and they are complete hell to duckdive under 10’ Hawaiian whitewater.

Bet you wish you have the Pope Bisect version of that yancy - make traveling a breeze…

Aloha from Ewa

Brother Ben ripping as always.

Oneula, I’m with you on this one.


Yea epac that chun’s photo was the pic I saw…

That’s one hell of a cutback for a guy in his 60’s

And that’s the same fish board I saw at Blueplanet.

Ben sure can shape’em

too bad he’s well out of my acceptable price range for his polys…

Sometimes all those surfermag forum punks with their brains stuck on cool don’t understand where this all came from and the guys that put their blood sweat and tears to make it what it is today.

Sure Toby and the other new gen guys are doing some nice things but to compare them to guys like Aipa or Brewer even Sparky, Cippy and Iggy well they don’t even exist in the same universe… Sure being hot today is cool stuff lets see any of them stick it out 30-40 years in the biz and then maybe they can claim some bragging rights. Theis new potato chip state of the art design in surfboard building is as fragile and lasts as long as a hit of Batu (ice/crack cocaine).

I wonder if AI or any of the new wunderkind will be able to make that turn Ben’s making when they are in their mid 60’s too…

Oneula , I was checking out a 7’2 lynch loved it, will probably get a lynch when I grow up . The surftech 's I have seen are good quality and to have a company chase you for your input would be unreal, I have used epoxy but it was in boat building. I don’t know a lot about it . In Aus most boards are poly (that I have seen). I personally go for custom shapes.

Mcoy do test rides at Byron Bay and Maroochydoor I might give a nugget (surftech ) a run and then I can pick the arse out the popout. till then what next.

…see:

" Big Daz’s new board " thread …

http://www.swaylocks.com/forum/gforum.cgi?post=210003;search_string=Daz;#210003

Pandanus,

I’m with you on those Wayne Lynch models. I’ve being looking (drooling) over those too. Come to think of it, I am starting to run out of space in the garage. Maybe it’s time to sell a couple?

I’ve got a pop-out 6’9" Lynch. There. I’ve said it. And I’m not swallowing my words either. No way I’m paying 1500$ for one of his poly/pu jobs that aren’t hand shaped (kkl) for a board that will deteriorate way faster than the surftech. My only lament is that the tail isn’t 1/2 an inch wider. Still, only really feel that difference when the surf is less than 4 feet. The whole ticket with the surftechs is waiting until they make a board that will really work for you…and the numbers are gonna continue to grow, don’t delude yourselves. They’ll have more and more models and more and more market share until the “custom” builder steps up to the plate with a product that will last.

I’ve tried a bunch of pop-outs; boardworks and surftechs. I’m not an awesome surfer, but I can hold my own and while I can’t say that it rides as well as my magical Bill Johnson shaped Rusty C5, but it’s pretty damn close in most conditions and I don’t worry about it when I travel. Furthermore, the extra buoyancy is nice when you’re wearing a 4/5/6 with hood and booties. I can’t surf the Rusty any more for fear of snapping it…and that was after only a year of regular use. Half the reason I’m here is to gain enough knowledge to copy that board in a construction that works.

Surftech is supplying a product for which there is a demand; a more impact resistant surfboard for people that don’t yet feel they need a custom shape. And the shapes are getting better; specifically the bottoms. The long term effect is that shapers are going to have to step up and make boards that will last; I’ll be damned if I’m going to go out and spend the bucks to get a magic board, only to have it fall apart after a couple of months of solid use.

So, the surftech may have no soul…or “less” soul than one of my poly/pu boards in the quiver…but I can tell you that once I’m up to snuff with my shaping/glassing skills that the boards I will be on will be eps/epoxy and will represent my soul better than the next persons kkl cranked/glassed with the cheapest materials available poly/pu combo. Isn’t that why everyone here has been abuzz on the epoxy? A change is gonna come.

I’m not gonna get in to the sweat shop debate either. I eat organic greens. I shop at local merchants. I avoid the box stores like the plague (HD excepted). Anybody willing to surpass Surftech’s lead with American made custom sandwich construction boards, I’ll be interested. The windsurfing industry has been at it in Hood River for decades now. Where are the entrepreneurial surfers?

Similiar story as everyone else… unbeliver until I found a 6’10 yancy Pope that within 2 trips (HI and FL) has almost saved me enough in baggage fee’s to cover its cost. That also includes me having enough room to sneak a sponge in there as well. Anyway we all seem to have alot of boards from all ends of the spectrum, local shaper, selfshaped, popout, etc etc. As a bigger guy I like the extra float and stiffness the board has BUT would never want a full quiver of the things… so is it OK to have 1 or 2 of these in your quiver now?

I’m gonna find one I like, template it, make a balsa one,

rinse,

repeat.

by the time I spend $800, I’ll have a hole quiver.

wells

the whole thing about surftechs being “indestructible” or whatever else people think about their supposed superior strength is a myth…they ding, they crush, and they get destroyed by overzealous baggage handlers and hungry rocks just like any other foam core based surfboard…and have fun fixing that m&m shell if it splits or cracks on you, the average ding repair skills are not going to help much…

“The long term effect is that shapers are going to have to step up and make boards that will last; I’ll be damned if I’m going to go out and spend the bucks to get a magic board, only to have it fall apart after a couple of months of solid use.”

Actually, shapers already make boards that last…it’s up to the consumer to educate themselves about blanks, glassing, workmanship, etc. If you’re riding a 6’9, you’re probably not regulary busting billabong airs, so why get a glass / blank combo that’s preprogrammed to disintegrate when numerous other choices aside from factory made popsicle sticks exist?

I also don’t understand the comments up above directed at Pavel and others like him…new gen? potato chip state of the art boards that last as long as a hit of ice? hot today, with no real long-term experience? are we talking about the same “toby”?

And not all “younger” surfers who dislike surftechs and prefer glass, pigment, and something other than 3 fins have their brains set on “cool”…some of us knew what trim was before thomas campbell came along…

I rather ride a kkl shaped hand finished board any day of the week than something that was designed for high volume low thought sales…save that for slip and slide world. At least you still have fin system choices, color, glass schedule etc…

welcome to the new world of surfing…mall culture has won

The soul comes from the surfer not the board. That is why Aipa will have soul on a surf-tech or a handshape. Soul is soul, you either have it or you don’t. Don’t think a board will give it to you.

who said anything about soul? you can kiss future aipas goodbye if all the money is in high volume cookie cutter factory production, same goes for long-term innovation, right now almost every single surftech or similar popout high volume identically mass produced board is a copy of an already proven standard shape…no more overnight design changes to rock the surfing community anymore, I can tell you that, not when it cost big bucks to retool molds and production lines…

Whoa now…sorry; came off a bit strong I guess; bad coffee this mornin’? About the indestructible thing…I had a boardworks 6’4" that they prototyped for Santa Cruz. I surfed the crap outta it for 6 months in the dead of winter in SD. Lotta bigger days at Blacks. After 6 months I scraped the wax off, cleaned it up and the deck was perfect. PERFECT. I dropped it; I chipped the nose; nothing that a mixture of 5 minute epoxy with some microballoons couldn’t fix. Not indestrucible, but substantially stronger, no question and no more difficult to repair than pe/pu. It was considerably lighter than a 6’4" Doc that I was surfing at the time, performed nearly as well and outlasted it by two years. Doc is busted, boardworks still going strong in a buddies quiver.

No shots at people in particular; don’t think I even mentioned Pavel. Just that alot of folks are thinking “custom hand shape” when what they’re getting is tried and true off the machine, not much different than what surftech provides…And I’m all for machines; more reproducible, more symmetrical, but lots of people are using this technique and still claiming hand made in the US for a couple of passes with the sanding block and whopping price tags.

My problem at 6’2" and 200# was that pu/pe boards disintegrated. Sadly, the bulk of surfboards made today that incorporate the features you’re referring to; fin system/number choice (or glass-on), resin tints and such are made in an antiquated construction…same as in the 60’s. Look, I’d go out and buy a 1968 Mustang Fastback in a heartbeat…but it wouldn’t be my every day car. That’s kinda my point…once someone makes something with good gas mileage and decent performance (light board/car) that doesn’t require constant maintenance(see increased durability here), people will settle for something that doesn’t have the same kind of ching-ching factor. That’s extra…that’s for the people that have the space, the money and the time. And that’s becoming a smaller percentage of surfers. I want an everyday driver (my lynch) and my boutique cars get the respect they are due (another doc and the johnson); they are for special occasions.

When I was down south, the only epoxies (other than the pop-outs) you’d ever see were super light glass jobs on XTR blanks. And they’d dimple and heel-dent faster than little jimmy’s plastercine. I would totally shell out the bucks for a machine shaped/hand finished, acid splashed, resin tinted quad. I would LOVE one…if I knew that in 3 years of surfing it would still be ticking rather than always handling it like a dozen eggs and being scared to put it down. Surftech is just filling a demand. Others will fill the same demand in the future…the only complaint possible is that in the way it’s been done, it will be hard for others to compete when at home labour is considered into the costs. And believe me, I’d pay more than what Randy is charging…it’s just that no one is doing it on any reasonable scale yet.

Yes, I understand your points (by the way, I was not referring to you in regards to Pavel, etc), but I see no real innovation with surftech, at least. The boards I’ve seen have FCS, which many consider to be a cheap and low quality fin system. For every ST owner who claims their board is indestructible, you can find another who can tell you about dings. I speak from experience, I purchased a Takayama 9’0 to see what it was all about and I wasn’t pleased. Aside from the riding characteristics, which I think don’t fit what I like about longboarding (that’s another issue), my board did suffer several dings…my volan / heavier glassed boards have suffered equivalent impacts and fared much, much better. I found the surftech dings difficult to repair (I’m not the greatest, but I’m capable) and the outer shell tended to crack and break off…like an m&m shell. I can think of a large number of surfers in my area who have either broken their st’s in half or suffered dings, including one who had the entire nose of his longboard popped off inside a well-packed airline travel bag. Please note that I am not saying they are WEAKER than standard boards, but it is clear they are not the magic antidote to dings and breakage.

I have numerous dense blank / strong glass / tinted resin / glass on boards that are going strong several years down the line…and they are surfed often and they travel. And no, they don’t weigh 100 lbs or anything like that. I also have boards from the 60’s and 70’s that I ride and they are holding up 30-40 years later.

Right now, there are way more st’s than there were 3 years ago…I really think we need to go a bit further down the road before we start claiming that 3-4 year old surftechs that are surfed regularly are going to be “as good as new”.

Perhaps boardworks is different…

In regards to established shapers finally getting their share, or however you wish to view the situation, it reminds me of something my friend said about the late great jazz organist Jimmy Smith. It’s a sad indictment of the music world, that so many talented and gifted jazz musicians died poor and more or less in a bad way…charlie parker, billie holiday, charles mingus, lester young, the list goes on and on. Nowadays, those who survived are more or less given greater recognition, but also more FINANCIAL compensation. Jimmy Smith is one of my favorite musicians…the sound he created on the organ and the records he made at Blue Note are amazing. But he suffered throughout his career and had to work hard for his art. In the late 90’s, we saw him play at several places in NYC. By this time, there had been a reappeciation of his work beyond the world of the jazz heads and he was able to sell out $100 a ticket shows at the world’s best jazz clubs. But the thing is, he MILKED it. Sure the talent was still there, and you could never take away what he had accomplished, but he played a short routine set that was filled with cliches and bad jokes. My friend called it a RETRIBUTION set…sure, I’m glad he got what he deserved, but I’d prefer to have never seen him.

I’d like a true Brew gun, but that doesn’t mean I should settle for the surf tech version just because Brewer’s name is associated with it…

Sorry for the long and rambling post ha ha…

Ben

I like the look of the Byrne Surftech like the Mullet and the Easyrider profile looks like the Lynch with a little more width up front… Don’t know about the rocker as I haven’t seen one in person but the Lynch is pure rocker not a good paddler in my opinion but a hell of a big wave carver I bet…

Dubstar

As far as Mandala/Pavel etc yea we’re all riding and loving our quad fishes now as it’s the in thing to do…

I have a 6’4" Mandala and love it for certain conditions but not all definitely not big hawaiian stuff especially backside. I guess bonzers are fiting in there somewhere too. Like Parmenter lectured us on these new fishes will all go away soon and we’ll be on to the next lemmings race to nirvana.

I think there’s certain guys you just can’t go wrong with Ben, and Brewer come to mind as does Dave Parmenter no matter how screwed up your image of how you think you surf gets into the picture when you ask for your board they’ll see through all the BS and make you what you really need.

Like Vin Diesal says in Knockaround Guys… 500

Get 20,000-40,000 hand shaped boards under your belt and maybe you can then say you might know what you are doing. Do it for 20-30 years seeing all the off again and on again trends (Ya LeeDD) and maybe you can call yourself a shaper. Other than that everyone else is just fishing for their 15 minutes of fame while the masters just drop down to the hole grab what the need for dinner and go home no wasted energy no wasted BS… If you want tried and true stick with the 30,000-40,000 under my belt guys.

But then again as mentioned beffore these guys have a past board building history to inihibit their vision of the new technology.

Surftech/Boardworks don’t do crap for surfing other than make alot of money for a few.

it’s the shapers input that we should be concerned with and hope that eventually they will find someone who can take the technology to the next level by thinking outside the box like Bert and crew.

But you should also consider this…

For the about price of a new poly custom… You can equip your self with a vacuum boardbuilding setup to build as many homedepot wood sandwich epoxy laminated boards you’d ever want to try out or need. Just borrow a dream board from whoever template it and make your own…

Better yet, go get your dream poly as a shaped blank and do the rest yourself with these new materials. You’ll save on delivery and end up with a much better product.

Believe me you’ll never go back once you see what you can actually do youself without alot of technology or experience… Its pretty amazing and inspriing what us common nobodys are doing nowadays

oneula, I can’t remember, are you shaping some of your own boards? I have a friend who shaped his own this past fall, he’s all set up, so i think I am hgoing to try and have him help me out this summer with my first shape…

Speaking of Brewer, my friend has two…an 8’3 thruster gun he used to great success when living in the islands, and a 7’6 thruster semi-gun he picked up but never even rode (the 8’3 is so good, and he has other boards for when the surf is smaller).

So I think I am going to buy the 7’6 off him…it was authenticated in the islands as a true brewer, somehting I thought I wouldn’t ever be able to get a hold of (with the shipping and wait time to get hold of an actual hand shape from brewer nowadays).

Have you ridden something similar? I’d like to hear about it if so…

Howzit everyone?!? As another struggling shaper out here, I’m personally aware of the impact of the Surftech sales on the handshaped market. I shaped for over a year at a local shop that sold plenty of those Tech things. Almost every day, I’d see those things walking out the door with their new owners. I’m not sure what’s up in the rest of the surf world out there, but I tell you what, over here the things break on a regular basis. I only laugh when I see those 2 clean pieces. Was visiting with “Ol’ Amby” the other day when some unfortunate victim stopped by to see about getting his broken board fixed. When he walked up with his Tech parts, we all laughed and said “out of luck”. At this rate, it won’t be much longer before the people get the message that the things are junk. How about how the nice paint job on the things is as thick as the entire composite shell? Junk! Aloha…RH

" I ride what I ride to get a certain feeling…" oops, sorry that was Daisy Shayne not me. But I do understand what she is trying to say.

I ride my Boardworks fish because of a certain feeling. It’s light, strong, quick and easy to paddle. That board has been through some serious abuse and so far is still there for me. Sure, it’s shell cracks like an M&M, big deal! Now it has character.

I ride my Clyde Beatty Rocketfish at Rincon when it gets overhead. Not just for speed and control but it is a very strong and dependable design. EPS and epoxy resin with 6 4 6 glass job. Light and hard as hell to ding. I’ve had this board for two winters now and it only has a few scratches from hitting the rocks. NO DINGS!!! My guess is that this board will last a looooooonnnnnnngggggg time. (as long as I don’t let it bake in the sun or car)

My five fin bonzer was made by Proctor on his DSD machine. Cool board but very prone to dings and pressure marks on the deck. You see, he used a very thick 8’ blank to make a 6’10" semi gun on his CAD DSD cutter. As you can imagine all the hard foam was cutaway and it was too soft on the deck. Clark foam with PE resin and 6 4 6 glass job. Expensive disposable board. Not for me anymore.

I Just finished my 6’ fish last month. Clark foam with FGH epoxy resin and 6 4 6 glass job. So far, no pressure dents on the deck, no dings and just a scratch or two from washing up on the rocks at The Point. It’s very light and fast. This year will be the test for my epoxy designs. So far, I am impressed and am planning on making all of my future boards with epoxy. I’ve dropped it next to the car and it escaped with a small scratch. There is no way ANY of my PE boards would have fared as well.

I’m not jumping ship on PE boards entirely, especially since my two favorite longboards are UV PE resin. No way am I planning on getting rid of them. It’s just that epoxy is looking more durable to me through personal experience.

Anyhoo…just my observations.