OT - Swell hight, swell period, the waves...

Does anyone have an idea/hypothosis/theory/formula re. Swell Ht, Swell period, and the fact that, at least here in the PNW o the US, (where we have bouy reports to add data to our emperical observation) and I’m sure it’s true all over, bigger period = bigger waves @ same size swell.

example 7’ @ 20 sec. is bigger,esp. sets, and cleaner, than say 10’ @ 10 sec. even more really, but I hope you get my point.

My thought are; 2 seconds additional period, esp. over @ 12 seconds, seems to add 20-25%…

example 2: monday 7’ @ 17 seconds, twice as big as yesterday, 7’ @ 12 seconds…

I tried DR. Tony Butts from surfers path/journal about a simple math formula on swell wrap - de/re-fraction, i.e. how much is the swell cut as it wraps around a point. He said he didn’t know, didn’t seem to care. Who kows. Ps. Any of you guys(and the one girl who posted) have thoughts on that one too?

Ok, thanks again - Taylor

its not simple . . . that’s why. I remember seeing this at surfline . . . and saving it.

Swell Period.

The most overlooked three-dimensional variable. Most surfers look at waves from a two-dimensional

perspective: wave height and direction. But waves need to be analyzed from a three-dimensional

perspective, which also includes the swell period. The swell period variable is the X-factor.

It’s the make or break variable and plays a huge role in the eventual size of a swell. This is

why:

  1. Wave decay and travel. The longer the swell period, the more energy the wind has

transferred into the ocean. Long-period swells are able to sustain more energy as they travel

great distances across the ocean. Short-period swells (less than 14 seconds between wave crests)

are steeper as they travel across the ocean and, therefore, are more susceptible to decay from

opposing winds and seas. Long-period swells (greater than 14 seconds) travel with more energy

below the ocean surface and are less steep so they can easily pass through opposing winds and

seas with very little affect.

  1. Conserving energy. Swells travel as a group of waves or a “wave train.” As the swell moves

forward, the wave in the front of the wave train will slow down and drop back to the rear of the

group while the other waves move forward by one position. Then the next wave in front moves back

and another takes its place – much like a rotating conveyor belt that is also moving forward.

It’s a process somewhat similar to the “drafting” technique used by bicycle racers and car

racers, and it enables wave trains to conserve their energy as they travel great distances across

the oceans. Working together to sustain energy.

  1. Wave speed. The speed of a swell or a wave train can be calculated by multiplying the swell

period times 1.5. For example, a swell or a wave train with a period of 20 seconds will be

traveling at 30 knots in deep water. (Knots are nautical miles per hour. One knot equals 1.2 mph

on land.) A swell with a period of 10 seconds will travel at 15 knots. The individual waves

actually move twice as fast as the wave train or the swell, and a single wave’s speed can be

calculated by multiplying the swell period times three. So individual waves with a period of 20

seconds travel at 60 knots in deep water. Again, think of the wave train like a rotating conveyor

belt that is also moving forward.

  1. Forerunners. Long-period waves move faster than short-period waves, so they will be the

first to arrive. Forerunners are the initial long-period waves that travel faster than the main

body of the swell. Usually, forerunners are pulses of energy with periods of 18 to 20 seconds or

more. A wave train’s peak energy will usually follow in the 15- to 17-second range. The swell

period will steadily drop during the life cycle of the swell as it arrives on the coast. The

farther a swell travels, the greater the separation of arrival time between the forerunners and

the peak of the swell. Often the forerunners will only be inches high but can be measured by

buoys and other sensitive oceanographic instruments. To the naked eye, forerunners are very hard

to see; sometimes you can pick them out as slight bumps on a jetty or other rocks. Surfers with a

sharp eye can often sense forerunners as the “ocean seems to be moving” with extra surging and

currents. Even though forerunners may only be inches high, they constitute a large amount of

energy. LOLA uses real-time buoy data to separate these tiny forerunners from the rest of the

swell in the water so we can identify the first signs of a new swell – before we can see it at

the beach.

  1. Swell period and ocean depth. The depth at which the waves begin to feel the ocean floor is

one-half the wavelength between wave crests. Wavelength and swell period are directly relative,

so we can use the swell period to calculate the exact depth at which the waves will begin to feel

the ocean floor. The formula is simple: take the number of seconds between swells, square it, and

then multiply by 2.56. The result will equal the depth the waves begin to feel the ocean floor. A

20-second swell will begin to feel the ocean floor at 1,024 feet of water (20 x 20 = 400. And

then 400 x 2.56 = 1,024 feet deep). In some areas along California, that’s almost 10 miles

offshore. An 18-second wave will feel the bottom at 829 feet deep; a 16-second wave at 656 feet;

a 14-second wave at 502 feet; a 12-second wave at 367 feet; a 10-second wave at 256 feet; an

eight-second wave at 164 feet; a six-second wave at 92 feet and so on. As noted above, longer

period swells are affected by the ocean floor much more than short-period swells. For that

reason, we call long-period swells ground swells (generally 12 seconds or more). We call

short-period swells wind swells (11 seconds or less) because they are always generated by local

winds and usually can’t travel more than a few hundred miles before they decay. Long-period

ground swells (especially 16 seconds or greater) have the ability to wrap much more into a surf

spot, sometimes 180 degrees, while short-period wind swells wrap very little because they can’t

feel the bottom until it’s too late.

  1. Shoaling. When waves approach shallower water near shore, their lower reaches begin to drag

across the ocean floor, and the friction slows them down. The wave energy below the surface of

the ocean is pushed upward, causing the waves to increase in wave height. The longer the swell

period, the more energy that is under the water. This means that long-period waves will grow much

more than short-period waves. A 3-foot wave with a 10-second swell period may only grow to be a

4-foot breaking wave, while a 3-foot wave with a 20-second swell period can grow to be a 15-foot

breaking wave (more than five times its deep-water height depending on the ocean floor

bathymetry). As the waves pass into shallower water, they become steeper and unstable as more and

more energy is pushed upward, finally to a point where the waves break in water depth at about

1.3 times the wave height. A 6-foot wave will break in about 8 feet of water. A 20-foot wave in

about 26 feet of water. A wave traveling over a gradual sloping ocean floor will become a

crumbly, slow breaking wave. While a wave traveling over a steep ocean floor, such as a reef,

will result in a faster, hollower breaking wave. As the waves move into shallower water, the

speed and the wavelength decrease (the waves get slower and move closer together), but the swell

period remains the same.

  1. Refraction. Waves focus most of their energy toward shallower water. When a wave drags its

bottom over an uneven ocean floor, the portion of the wave dragging over shallower water slows

down while the portion wave passing over deeper water maintains its speed. The part of the wave

over deeper water begins to wrap or bend in toward the shallower water – much the same as how

waves wrap and bend around a point like Rincon or Malibu. This process is called refraction.

Deep-water canyons can greatly increase the size of waves as the portion of the swell moving

faster over deep water bends in and converges with the portion of the swell over shallower water.

This multiplies the energy in that part of the wave, causing it to grow into a larger breaking

wave as it nears shore. The effects of a deep-water canyon just offshore is often why we see huge

waves along one stretch of beach, while maybe just a few hundred yards down the beach the waves

are considerably smaller. This happens at spots such as Black’s and El Porto in Southern

California, and Maverick’s in Northern California. Remember, the longer the swell period, the

more the waves will be affected by the ocean floor bathymetry, the more they will wrap into a

spot and the more the waves will grow out of deep water.

I studied up on this stuff ages ago, and since it was a oceanography course, not neccessaraly surf related, I didn’t put the fact together the way it is presented. One thing that is interesteing to me is the “super postition” of wave trains. It goes something like this:

(as you know, the waves travel in trains) And, since the trains were generated by the same storm (generally speaking) they are traveling at roughly the same speed. But, since it is not exactly the same speed, the trains come at differing times (as it were). [From what I understand, this is what happens re. sets and lulls] Some times two trains line up such that they “cancell” each other out - “lull,” and some times they line up such that, they are super imposed on top of each other, and the result is the “set” - “clean up set” maybe… Which also implies/suggests, the mainly consistant “shore break”/“insiders” are the actual “wave” size on a given day and it is the “super position” which gives us our “sets.” When considering the reality of varying time of trains, I found it helped explain the “disapearing” set, and the "pop up out of nowhere’ set. All this fits in with what you posted. I’m gonna print that stuff out and do the math, just for fun… also, take a look for some local “canyons”… maybe I’ve been missing some secret small swell spots/swell builders.

The whold thing helps explain why Dr. Butts said a “wrap” formula would be difficult… You’d have to know the swell conditions, the bottom, etc.

Good stuff to me. Thanks again - Taylor.

Yes the waves travel in groups (sets) and a couple weird things about the groups:

A wave group moves at half the average speed of its component waves. So the set of waves moves at half the speed of the energy of the individual waves.

“Within the group, each wave moves forward from the back of the group to the front. At the front, the wave has to create momentum from water that has none, so the front wave gradually disappears. At the back of the group, the wave leaves the water with some momentum that gradually builds into a wave. The waves in the middle share in the transfer of momentum, and do not change in size, but move within the group. Waves move, like on a conveyor belt, from the back of the group to the front.” - taken from http://www.blakestah.com/surf/oldprediction.html

Really weird to see it yourself, check out the waves created by throwing a large rock in a pond and you will see how the first wave of the set “dissapears” and then pops up in the back.

Also some near shore data collected seems to support that the first and last waves of a set are smaller. So that old theory of never take the first wave kinda hold true, if you want a bigger one.

Try and find yourself a copy of Waves and Beaches by Willard Bascom. Good reading and good to have around when someone what to tell you that you don’t know what your talking about. We lost Mr. Willard Bascom just a few years back, I think I heard that someone ran a red light and killed him. I have read a few other of his books and thought they will not tell you anything about our beloved waves they are very interesting read. I have been told that there is a new book writen by a lady over in the UK that is also very good. Oh ya the longest sustained wave period ever recorded was in the UK and was 25 sec. If you have seen what the differance between a 17 sec. period and a 20 sec period, and I have I would love to see a sustained 25 sec period, from the right angle hit my reefs…

surfline.com

additional stuff . …

wrapping, refraction, and shoal action, dependent on continental shelf and bathymetry. Swell is sensitive to the ocean bottom. Usually waves like to refract more in the direction of shallow water . . .

Groundswell will feel out the ocean floor, and cause wrapping, while windswell since it does not have the depth, will not do so.

Deep water canyons can help out with swell energy (dependent on the depth, shape), especially if shaped right. They can combine swells, channel them together, plus the deep water pilling up on a shallow section magnifies the energy. Many epic spots or big wave spots are set up with this arrangement.

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That is a sweet link, thanks. Heres to 15+ second swells!!! Taylor

That’s called “constructive” and “destructive interference”…when crests line up it’s constructive (sets). But when crests line up with troughs, it’s destructive (lulls).

I teach my students that wave speed = wavelength X period. So wavelength is the unknown variable in most cases, since that information is seldom given by bouy reports (at least around here).

Quote:

I teach my students that wave speed = wavelength X period. So wavelength is the unknown variable in most cases, since that information is seldom given by bouy reports (at least around here).

it’s been my understanding that the wave period x 2.2 is the speed at which it travels, or close to that.

Where does that number (2.2) come from? Is it an average or something? If speed is measured in meters per second and period is always in seconds, then 2.2 must be meters? All waves are not 2.2 meters apart.

Also…breaking waves slow down as they approach the shoreline because of friction with the bottom, so as the speed changes, so does wavelength change - the wavelength of breaking waves slowed by the bottom is shorter than the open ocean swells they once were. I’m assuming, then, that period must also change, unless the change in speed perfectly compensates for the change in wavelength.

Nj arn’t you a phyisics teacher?

The speed (in nautical miles per hour) of an individual deep water wave is about 3 times it’s period (in seconds). That is, an individual wave with a 13 second period travels at 39 kts/hr. Contrary to what you might intuitively think, there is a linear relationship between wave period and wave speed. But because most deep water waves move in groups, the group speed is half that of an individual wave (within the group), or in this example about 19.5 kts/hr. As the wave moves into shallow water, the group speed and the individual wave speed become the same, so the individual wave starts traveling at the group speed, or 19.5 kts per hour. This wave speed formula is approximate, and actually wave speeds are a fraction different, but this is close enough for all but the most detailed surf forecaster.

http://www.stormsurf.com/page2/tutorials/wavebasics.shtml

That makes sense… knots/hour is the key. I was applying the wave characteristics of sound, light, etc. to ocean waves, so the units didn’t make sense.

Cool…

Seems that some of you are confusing “lull” with “null”.

A null is also known as cancellation. This occurs when a peak and trough coincide, thus cancelling each other out. In audio, this is known as phase cancellation, since the two are out of phase by 180 degrees. Two waves that are in phase will “sum”, essentially doubling the height.

Also, according to Bascom, in Waves and Beaches, the speed of a swell in deep water (greater than 1/2 the wave length) is 3.5 times the period.

NJsurfer - thanks for getting me thinking about waves. I was intuitivly thinking of ocean waves, but as I read your reply I started reading about waves on some physics links. It all quickly went over my head. So, I really don’t have much to back my info up except the Pacific Storm Surf Page. That guy is one of the few who gives forecasts w/o the hype and corny adjectives.

http://polar.ncep.noaa.gov/…n/nww3_pa.anim.2.gif

Thanks for sparking some interest!

==epac

That is a sweet link, thanks. Heres to 15+ second swells!!! Taylor