since the other thread is being put to rest, I thought I’d reply here.
I really look foward to your DVD and I hope that after viewing it I will feel that I have the ability to pull off a board half as beautiful as what your producing.
In my head I have a little round pin board for that “short” version of beach around the corner from you as I’ve had some amazing barrels there when growing up. I also have a break here in NY that it would be perfect for.
The one question is how accuratly can you apply subtle bottom contours with these boards, is a single to double concave possible are they sanded in or bent in?
Oh and name the DVD what ever you want to! when do you expect it to be available?
I really look foward to your DVD and I hope that after viewing it I will feel that I have the ability to pull off a board half as beautiful as what your producing.
Are you sure about that? even after we've been exposed as hacks? ;)
Quote:
How accuratly can you apply subtle bottom contours?
I am continually amazed at how well even subtle adjustments to frames can be accurately reflected on the surface. You know the bottom of the first generation CI MSF single fin - where it has that intense exit V aft of the fin and double concave? I tried to recreate that in my last board. It came out amazing and I think I could have even coaxed out some more. Nose concave even easier. The key is in the clamping. Being able to apply vertical pressure exactly where and when you need it. We’ve developed a simple way to do it using bar clamps and wedges. So they are primarily bent in.
We’re filming the DVD right when we get back from the Expo on Jan 17th. Will be available asap after that.
every time I read this thread I pick up a bit more info to help build my wood boards, ah wedges under the clamps to squeeze those gaps, perfect…
I glued up the stringer to the bottom planks and shaped all the x-members last night, decided that I will glass the internals on my 5mm thick Pualownia skins so will do the bottom tonight and fillet and lap in the stringer for a bit more strength, i will only use a light weight cloth 3-2oz and glue in the x-members at the same time. All comming together pretty quick, must be gunna stuff up somewhere soon…
Rich
how many layers do you build into your rails, I am thinking of going 30-40 thick (6-8 layers).
Roy surfed the bar and over the hill at Ohope and west to pukahina before, I am in the lucky position of have 6 months off to travel around so will cruise all the popoular east cost spots on the way down to the SI, or if cyclones are forecast will head north for some east coast magic…
Typically, 6 layers of rail strips on the bottom, and three on the top (assuming 1/4" strips). A total of 1 1/2 inches seems to be enough meat to coax out just about any rail profile. Incidently, in the nose and tail, 1 1/2 inches ends up being way more than enough (because the board is thinner there. would be nice to figure out how to do away with all that extra material (like by tapering the railstock and compensating the planks). But I have not the mathmatical savvy to figure it out.
what’s a “thin kerfing blade” I’ve been scouring the net and haven’t found any yet I can put on my table saw.
also why did you choose those two woods?
would 1/4" balsa planks work just as well?
finally a question for everyone…
but what if you fastened the crossbars at the perimeter with a perimeter stringer versus using a center stringer.
would that work and give you more flexdown the core? or would the board end up too weak?
seems like you could bend the rails around the form and join the crossbars to the rails without a center brace and if you make your top and bottom sheets thick enough let’s says 1/2" maybe you could router grooves in them to set the cross bars into to hold them in place as you clamp them togethor.
I think Robbo’s post is the new Bert Burger post of the coming year… I’m all excited to get started on a HWB versus another styrosando.
wish we could easily get cedar, pawlonia or agave out here in hulathemoola land.
A kerfing blade is also sometimes known as a ripping blade.
I like your ideas especially routing groves to take the x-braces that would help heaps in getting them straight. You could also pre glue thin strips across the board to make a box joint on thinner skinned boards. But even a 2-3mm groove would help.
but what if you fastened the crossbars at the perimeter with a perimeter stringer versus using a center stringer.
FWIW, that’s pretty much what Roy Stewart does on (some) of his boards. All the wood for his rails exists already (instead of attaching it later) and he has slats going across from ‘rail’ to ‘rail’, in a diagonal fashion (or other directions I suppose depending on how much flex he wants in the particular board he is building).
Wait a minute, there is a picture of his set up just above on this very page! Check it out.
Another way of getting more strength into the deck with thinner skins and no stringer, to keep weight down, would be to run deck and base longitudinal stiffeners, simular to boat building. These would span between x-members. This would perhaps allow the differential movement between top and bottom skins with the stiff rail set up AKA bertburger.
You could glue these in between x-members on the base and perhaps notch and run them in on the top prior to glueing on the deck, fair bit more work but doable
It look like Roy is gluing a whole bunch of small pieces inbetween the cross members to join them because the outside beam doesn’t look like one continuous piece of wood like you would do with a center beam stringer… Could be my eyes though
I wonder if you could use the ammonia technique to bend a sheet of 1/2" whatever into a rocker profile thm cut your rail band outlines from the rockered wood… Ammonia or steam the 4’x8’ sheet of wood and clamp it or vacuum clamp it to a rocker table… Let it dry then cut out your wood perimeter rails to fasten your crossmembers to.
does anyone know if wood 1/2" thick can be reformed this way?
You could vacuum clamp multiple rail bands with the cross members to build up the thickness on the same rocker table then shape the rail before lamming on the top and bottom sheets…
He builds them making the rails first, gluing several strips of wood the same way everybody (excepting roy) do. After this he glues both rails together, forming the board outline, and cuts the rocker profile directly on them. There is no stringer, just 2 cross ribs that he puts under front and rear foot area. Then top and bottom skins are inserted inside the rails. Interesting, but beyond my tooling capabilities. Maybe someone can…
I already have it sussed, it beats me why a couple or more of you keenos don’t just slap quick board together the way I have been doing it and see how much you like it. . . . . after all, I have the flex fully worked out, the system allows flex to be really easily controlled . . . . unlike the ‘kookbox’ HWS method and its variants, which don’t allow much flex at all.
As I have already explained, the multi layered method which I use is easily adapted for a tapered profile board a la Curren and Wegener for those who can’t face the parallel profile, and what’s more, doing a tapered version allows the super simple 3 layered version to be used.
Instead some of you are trying to copy Bert again, and not only does Bert not build Hollow wooden boards, none of you know exactly how he builds his foam/balsa composites anyway, so how can you use his method as a HWS guide ?
what about building a board in the same vane as a accoustic guitar
have you tried anything like that?
also i havent really seen much on grain orientation or grain spacing for a better quality build.
Id be interested in building a hollow wood at this stage but would like to try something different and possibly lighter maybe in with guitar style bracing, quatersawn cedar or fir. with a glass fibre or carbon reinforcement.
is this concept way off the mark or has anyone tried these concepts in any of their builds?
I am so delighted with the several variations of the multi panel method which I use, that I am not really looking to return to any rigid box like structure like a guitar (I realise that guitars resonate, but they are still just relatively rigid boxes, as are Blake method boards)
If I can borrow your ear for a minute or two, then perhaps the following might be interesting: You know how in various flexibility discussions you guys are discussing the Neutral Plane, well it’s no coincidence that the amazing flexibility achieved in our multi panel system involves a board built of panels which are all effectively horizontal layers or planes . . . these are juggled according to how we want the thickness and flexibility to interact. . . . . more panels with diagonal or cross ways grain orientation for a thicker but flexible board, or more fore and aft grain orientation for a thinner but stronger flexible board with a tighter flex return relative to its thickness.
Right now I am somewhat addicted to our 4 layer system which consists (in addition to a deck and bottom) of a substantial fore and aft panel and a thin acrossways panel.
Here’s a picture of the panel which I cut out today for the new 10’4", it’s not glued up yet. If I was going to do a tapered board this is the panel I would taper ( I am never going to build a tapered board, will leave that to you guys)
No doubt you can se how this panel orientation allows fore and aft grain in the rails. . . done in this case to add strength to a thin board, but with the cosmetic bonus of allowing the rail to be finished clear. . . something I usually avoid for cosmetic reasons with the diagonal panel boards.
Danny Hess is a green carpenter who turned his attention to hollow wood surfboards a few years ago. His professional woodworking skill and his skill as a top-level surfer at Ocean Beach were combined into a new craft. I’ve been fortunate to be able to watch some of the refining of his craft as he reached his current level of expertise, where he is making shortboards that weigh 8 pounds out of wood and epoxy. It is unquestionable that you will be amazed at the quality of the workmanship. As to the shapes, he has one of the best testers in the state in his own two feet. If you are at all interested, give him an email or ring, and check out some of his work. (Blakestah)
