Others with osteoarthitis in shoulders?

Just had the other shoulder operated but it’s only winning time, there’s no way for healing completely. Swimming has got painful, surfing is better, but during 2-3 week trips heavier surf or having 2 sessions per day are sometimes causing pain too. I guess i need to start taking days off or paddle in before I’m totally tired, but it’s just so hard when the waves are pumping.

What to do on a surf trip on a lay day? I tried the surf-mat but wasn’t hooked right away. Bodysurfing? Boogieboard?

SUP-surfing? How’s that for shoulders and wrists?

Have you got experience surfing with osteoarthitis? I’m only 38 so it’s not time to quit because of this.

I’m 44 and have it in both shoulders and knees, I lift weights 5 times a week but only do the basics " incline bench press less stress on shoulders, over head press, lat pulldowns, tricep pushdowns " I don’t do any movements that that add stress such as dumbell side laterals, if it hurts I don’t do it.Also use the elyptical machine 3 times a week, keeping your weight down helps a great deal. I can surf for hours and my shoulders only get a little sore and the next day I’m fine.I took 3 weeks off from working out this winter and it was the worst thing I could of done. My shoulders hurt so bad from not keeping the muscles and tendons strong that my surf sessions where very short and painfull. Soon as I began working out again I was back in full force, don’t get me wrong there are good days and bad but this regimen has worked very well for me. Find what works for you, I’m a firm believer that keeping your muscles and tendons strong will keep you active and enjoying the things you love most. Don’t give in. lifes to short. Hope this helps

Tom

Mats have a fairly long, steep learning curve. Patience is a virtue there. But they can take mucho strain off shoulders. That said, often a lot of the pain is not so much from degeneration as from attendant inflammation and muscular compensations.

So: structural body work like Rolfing, Heller Work, Trigger Point, etc. Also anti-inflammatory herbs like tumeric (Zyflammend is excellent formula. Anti-inflamm diet: NO sugar, coffee, trans-fats, chemical additives… And cartilage building supps l like glucosamine (1500 mg/day) with chondroitin (1200mg/day) and MSM (2-12 grams/day). MSM is the more anti-inflamm, glucosamin/chondriotin more direct cartilage precursors. See quote below about supplementing with strontium. Since it needs be taken away from other mineral supplements I take strontium middle of the night when I inevitably get up to pee…

From article by Ward Dean, M.D on Strontium as supplement posted here

http://www.vrp.com/articles.aspx?page=LIST&ProdID=art1854&search_in=articles

Quote:
Strontium and Arthritis

Based on the studies showing that strontium improves bone density in osteoporosis, scientists at the Bone and Cartilage Metabolism Research Unit, University Hospital, Liege, Belgium, hypothesized that strontium might also improve cartilage metabolism in osteoarthritis (OA).9 They performed an in vitro investigation using cartilage-forming cells (chondrocytes) obtained from normal adults and patients with osteoarthritis. Chondrocytes were cultured for 24 to 72 hours with strontium, and Proteoglycan (PG) content was determined—i.e., structural components of cartilage, including hyaluronic acid, glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate. These substances—Proteoglycans, also known as Glycosaminoglycans—are known to decline dramatically with age10 (Fig. 2). The researchers found that strontium strongly stimulated PG production. This suggests a cartilage-growth-promoting effect of strontium, and provides a sound basis for clinical testing of strontium in osteo- and other forms of arthritis.

Conclusion

Strontium in doses up to 1.7 grams per day appears to offer a safe, effective and inexpensive approach to preventing and reversing osteoporosis and may be of benefit in patients with osteoarthritis and cancer with bone metastases, as well as possibly helping to prevent dental cavities. Doses of 680 mg per day appear to be the optimum dose, although lower doses are clinically effective.

Dr. J.Y. Reginster (2002), one of the principal strontium researchers, cautions that co-administration of strontium with calcium appears to impair strontium absorption,11 so I recommend that strontium be taken on an empty stomach, and that it especially not be taken with other multi-minerals that usually include calcium.

Although the more recent studies used strontium ranelate, earlier studies used other salts of strontium, including strontium carbonate, strontium lactate, and strontium gluconate. It appears that the active ingredient is strontium, and whatever salt of strontium used is less important than the amount of strontium consumed.

Also, although the studies cited above used only strontium, plus calcium and vitamin D, I believe that even better results would be achieved by including other potential anti-osteoporotic substances such as a broad-spectrum mineral replacement that includes magnesium, vitamin K and boron, plus Xylitol, ipriflavone, calcium hydroxyapatite, progesterone cream (and in some cases, estrogen), and DHEA. A comprehensive regimen of synergistic bone-enhancing substances should provide the optimum regimen for preventing and treating osteoporosis.

My father is a holnistic healer, and he is constantly telling me what I am going to have to do if i want to be surfing well into my 90’s. There is a very low instance of arthritis in paleolithic cultures. much of the food we eat is filled with inflamatory substance that are in grain and legumes. Eat more deep sea fish, grass fed meats, fruits and veggies, as opposed to breads. Look up the Paleolithic diet. Many of our health problems are viewed as problems when they are really the symptoms of our lifestyles. Likewise, we treat the symptoms of our health problems rather than what is causing.(I bet you are taking some sort of pain killer for your shoulders?)

Yup, I’ve got pretty bad osteoarthritis/osteolysis in the left shoulder caused by weightlifting. Lifts to avoid include anything overhead (careful tjrm63) and specifically anything that involves heavy loads on the shoulder when it’s in the wrong position. I’m pretty sure incline bench and military presses caused mine. At its worst it caused constant dull ache/pain in the shoulder and restricted activity. I spoke to some GPs and specialists and got different opinions. Some said cortisone injections (bad), others said surgery (regular or arthroscopic), others said total rest for 6-12 months with no guarantee it’d fix the problem. I didn’t want to do any of that.

Eventually I found a sports doc who’s more interested in treating the cause not the symptoms. He gave me some exercises that really help. I do them once every day. If I slack off, it takes a day or two and the dull ache comes back but if I do them regularly I live pain free and can do everything I want, although the osteolysis won’t cure itself without a surgical or longterm total rest option. The exercises train a bunch of auxiliary muscles that would usually be ignored in favour of larger muscle groups e.g. when lifting or paddling. The exercises also help correct bad structural habits.

So here they are - no guarantees they’ll help you, but they help me immeasurably.

  1. Just standing there, try to flex the muscle over your shoulder blade. It’ll feel like you’re flexing your lats (which it also does). You won’t be able to do it without flexing your pecs at the same time, but that’s the goal - to keep the front relaxed while flexing the back. The actual muscle you’re targeting is a little one between your shoulder blade and spine. A minor one, but apparently important. I do 50 reps.

  2. Standing up, lean against a wall or something with one hand. Lift your shoulder up, down, back, forwards to get an idea of different positions. Now set it down and a little back. Keep your arm locked straight and do like a push-up motion by moving your shoulder all the way back and all the way forward. Make sure you keep your shoulder down, don’t raise it up (shrug). I do 30 reps. As you get better, increase the lean angle, use a bench, table, bedframe, etc. Ultimately do it on the ground in regular push-up position. Every few reps between reps shrug your shoulder and drop it back down to keep your awareness of the correct position.

  3. Take a large bottle of juice or milk or something that’ll shift weight. I use an old milk bottle filled with water. It has a side handle which helps. Now just hold it next to your chest in one hand like you’re in the low position of a push-up. Do the shrug/drop/front/back thing to make sure your shoulder’s in the right spot. Now do a lunge with the opposite leg (i.e. if you’re holding the bottle in your left hand, right leg steps forward) and while you’re lunging, reach straight forward straightening your arm, keeping the shoulder down. Step back to the start position. I do 20 reps. As you get better, vary the direction you’re reaching to e.g. reach right/left/up/down/angles, vary the direction of the start position e.g. reach low/high/side and vary the weight in the bottle (I use 3L/3kg).

Make sure you do all these exercises on both sides, even if only one shoulder has problems. They’ve retrained me. The most obvious example that the doc showed me was he got me to reach for something high. When I did he showed me that I shrug to do that. The brain/body thinks if you shrug you get extra reach but it’s not true - try it with/without shrugging (similar to the motion you do during the exercises to bring awareness to the joint) . The constant shrugging, especially while weightlifting or load bearing, puts a lot of load on your shoulder in a bad structural position. Better to fix/stop the shrugging and fix the structure.

You can try these exercises for a few weeks. I’d be interested if they help you like they have me. They won’t cure the arthritis, but they may stop it getting worse and they may hopefully help you deal with the pain. Doc told me it’s a very common problem that he sees all the time especially in swimmers. He would go the surgical route if I wanted, but advised against it if I could deal with the problem using the exercises.

Valuable info coming in here. Dr Strange’s Strontium article is very intriguing.

My .02 is Motrin and EPA Fish Oil Capsules. It has been used to treat a variety of maladies with sometimes impressive results. Since I started taking one a day with the rest of my stuff, I’ve experienced a notable improvement or complete resolution of a tweaked shoulder and elbow. I’ve been taking over the counter 1200mg capsules and they really seem to help. Take too much and your BO will start to smell fishy.

I agree with riderofwaves dietary suggestions, but not for the same reasons. The diet will help keep the weight off and reduce the stress on joints. Sensible weight lifting helps too. My understanding of Paleolithic hunter-gatherers is they tended to be old and decrepit by the time they reached their forties. The average life span was in that neighborhood I believe. A very tough dangerous way to make a living. Mike

I just sprained my AC joint (where the acromin and collorbone join). It has been over a month and the pain has not gone away. The bursa is no longer inflamed, but the joint itself hurts and pops a bit when I rotate my shoulder(paddling motion). My doctor says that the joint is inflamed and can’t heal because it constantly moves. He is reccomending a cortisone shot. I am not sure what to do.

If you look at many of the hunter gathers in north america, once people survived childhood, it wasn’t uncommon for them to live well into old age. The old and decrepit, has much to do with the way they made their living, as in they are the result of injury.

The short life span of the paleos was due to their becoming food if they weren’t at top of their game. The diet makes tons of sense. A tricky when all your buds are face cramming pizza but sometimes “very old school” is best. If you look at nutrient content of Paleo diet you end up getting large amounts of what people spend a lot of money on pills for—lots of different colored plant pigments/antioxidents, omega oils, minerals etc.

Just for the record. Motrin and friends (all the NSAIDS) are good for short term relief but if used chronically will actually speed arthritic degeneration. At least the research shows this so far. Glucosamine, chondroitin, etc are much slower in action but may actually gradually regenerate cartilage IF big fat IF you can eliminate inflammation Oh NOOOOOO back to the Paleo diet.

Actually, it was North American hunter gatherers that I had in mind when I made may generalization. It’s true, if you survived childhood your odds of living to the ripe old age of 40 or 50 was very good. Although humans have always fallen to predators, it probably is not the primary reason for death in Paleolithic times or modern hunter gatherers. Increased human lifespan has increased with better nutrition and agriculture, and most recently with knowledge of microbes, clean water, and penicillin. Mike

I’ve had most of the cartilage in both knees joints removed for one reason or another with some osteo-arthritis developing in one knee joint due to the bone on bone contact.

Can one actually regenerate lost cartilage as inidicated via diet and chemical intake?

My orthopedic surgeon says no

that my only hope is that cloning can do the job once it can be perfected…

Other than that surfing is only bound to make the bone on bone contact problems worse until my knee joints can be replaced after 60 or some other cartilage artificially inserted…

An I doomed to a life of hobbling around on pills like a retired ex-football/wrestlemania jock or is there truly a way to regrow my lost cartilage from scratch after 50?..

At this point it’s donjoy braces and pain pills after too many consecutive days in a row.

Bad knees and bad rotator cuffs can make this pasttime a painful one…

I just recently watched the woody brown documentary makes you wonder about the extended life benefits of being a vegan with no stress.

Thanks Toby for the excercice tips. I’ve done the rotator cuff excercises so far and they have been helpful too.

The operation I had was targeted to the most worn out part of the scapula joint surface. Where there was no cartilage left the surgeon made some microfractures to the bone to make it produce cartilage again. 4 out of 5 patients get some new cartilage and relief in symptoms this way. It’s done only if the area is small but the new cartilage wont be as good as real joint tissue.

It’s now a week after the surgery and the soulder feels ok, but I’ll wait for a month before doing any sports. I hope I’m among the 4 winners in this lottery.

So avoiding the tear and wear might be wise. In my case I’ll have to rethink my swimming hobby, better freestyle technique, less hard butterfly strokes, more kicking and fins used maybe? It sucks.

What sucks even more is that I should have to rest some days during my surf trips. (I used to snowboard months without taking days off and now my knees (with arthrosis) won’t take more than 2 days of hard riding in a row). I ride progressive longboard so paddling is fairly easy, but switching to a even more floaty one has crossed my mind too, but I just wouldn’t want to compromise on that.

One of the things that really count is strong back that helps you

paddle head and chest up and push your arm stroke all the way back

instead of reaching strokes from too far forward (which would be

overhead if you were standing).

Quote:
Can one actually regenerate lost cartilage as inidicated via diet and chemical intake?

My orthopedic surgeon says no

that my only hope is that cloning can do the job once it can be perfected…

Other than that surfing is only bound to make the bone on bone contact problems worse until my knee joints can be replaced after 60 or some other cartilage artificially inserted…

No one knows about regeneration for sure. There is some evidence of SLOW regeneration when the degeneration is relatively mild but it may require some being intact to start with.

The Stone Clinic http://www.stoneclinic.com/ in SanFran does all sorts of cutting edge, high tech tricks to regenerate. Not fully accepted yet as they are pioneering new methods but they apparently have a lot of success at grafts, transplants etc to avoid replacement.