OverThinking It

Proof that everyone is overthinking it.  It’s the indian, not the arrow.



Shooting Blanks from Raynorsurf on Vimeo.

What you say is generally true, but I found that a really good arrow, made me a better indian.     Much the same as one hand washes the other.     Sometimes, the whole can be greater than the sum of the parts.     Just sayin’.

…do not perform so well; performs better at the final of the clip when the waves dull.

Too much weight and foam on the nose area.

Flat bottom, chunky rails, squared off nose.  

Think about how strong that core is under that glassing - he didn’t take the crust off.  

So what I got out of it is, after shaping the tail, and tuning the rails, but leaving the full thickness, and giving it to pro surfers in good waves, they surfed it pretty well.

Moral of the story is** thick is better than we think, and the glasser has a lot to do with the ride**.  After all the glasser did do the final sanding. And professional surfers surf like professional surfers!

Thanks for posting this, great video.

That board looks so cool with the original factory stamp on it!!  Kudos to the shaper for following through on his hunch, and trying something different.

Its funny that everyone gets something a little different from the video.

Me, I get that the blank was created to be a close tolerance blank by a professional shaper, so in effect a lot of experience and shaping knowledge went into the shape already.  I also get that the shaper in the video knew which “tweaks” were necessary, and proper fin choice and placement.  

I’ve heard the “Indian vs. arrow” argument before, i.e., Kelly can surf on a door, Ryan Burch on a chunk of foam, so its all surfer talent and very little board design that makes a good surfer.  But if that’s the case, then it would stand to reason that pro surfers would care very little about the shapes they ride, fin choice and placement, etc.  After all, if its all Indian and very little arrow, then that stuff doesn’t matter.  But the best Indians seem to care an awful lot about fine-tuning the arrows they use, so I guess it still comes down to using shaping knowledge to get the best arrow for the Indian.

the guy is an experienced pro shapes for Daniel Jones? GG would know.

matty knows what makes a good board.

Part of the new crew taking over the northshore

reminds me decades ago when arakawa while working at surfco shaped and paddled out on an unglassed blue foam XPS board with some wet/dry sand paper so he could adjust the rail contours while surfing it.



Oneula  Is there a video of the xps blank getting adjustments while surfing? 


   There is something I constantly tell novice builders, it’s  that ‘‘The sanding, of the glassed surfboard, is the final step in the shaping process.’’      And to be even more clear, it is also the final step in the shapping process  too!      Lots of hard block sanding, and sharp release edges.      That level of attention to detail can really be felt in larger faster waves     I would always sand my own personal boards, and also do the rubouts, in order to retain the sharp release edges I had created.

there used to be a show on Public TV here called h3o it was creted by Mark Foo and Mike Latronic

There’s a clip they did back in the 90’s about it but I’m not sure if its still available.

They published a free magazine with it as well

the publication is still around in one form or another even after foo died.

that was my first introduction to XPS surfboards. This was well before solomon and arakawa camme up with their hollow board project with the blue foam.

The should’ve done it over a one of paul’s wood skeletons instead of those foam pods

What it means is:

  1. Crappy surfer on crappy board = crappy surfing


  1. Great surfer + crappy board = good surfing


  1. Great surfer + great board = Fantastic surfing.

What we just saw was number (2)  Great surfer + crappy board = good surfing.     There was nothing mind blowing here, just some solid surfing on a crappy surfboard.


I’d love to see them surf on a decent board?

I think a valid question may be whether the surfer of average or below average skill can actually outsurf a well-chosen blank/fin combo.  

I think Bill Stewart glassed one of his Clark foam blanks years ago. He entered a longboard contest.He got some publicity. I can remember shaping his Clark blank designs. One pass top and bottom…turn the rail and glass it.

I think it shows that you can get a pretty good board from today’s blanks if you just clean them up and don’t mess with them too much. The rocker is pretty good to start with, just get your outline, profile and rails done and you should have a good board. If you know what you’re doing, you should be able to get a really good board without a lot of work. Much easier than working with a rectangular slab of EPS or XPS foam.

I bet a really good old time production shaper could hack out boards as fast as it takes someone to setup a board on a shaping machine then take it off and clean it up.

Stoked to hear all of the chatter. We’re going to take the board and have some “everyday surfers” ride it and film it. I think you’ll be surf-prised (haha) by the results. Keep you posted.

kind of cool but the board looked slow and stiff. outline would be too wide for the amount of rocker of course because it i meant to have extra to be cut off.