Paipo dims, rocker, fins, rail etc thread

So, i had my sisters wedding last night, a great night for me and the family. WHile there, i start talking to my uncle, who was raving about a bodyboard, but made of fibreglass, Im guessing its a paipo. Anyway, he;s rapt about it, reckons he can charge anything on it, and its a tonne of fun. He also works with epoxy resin, like SH&Tloads of the stuff, which is used in flooring, and next time he comes down is going to drop off a few 20 litre kits of 2 different types of resin for me to try out on boards.

So, long story short, he got me interested in paipo’s, and im keen to knw rough dims, rail shapes, fins ( his is a thruster ), rocker etc.

Cheers guys

Mark,

Paipo come in a bewildering variety of shapes - wide point at the tail, wide point at the nose, wide point somewhere in between & parallel rails. For example see the attached photo,which came from Rod’s paipo site:

http://www.rodndtube.com/paipo/forum/index.php

Length - the shorter and thinner they go, the more kicking effort is required. If you have never used swim fins it can be hard work on a 4’ board. My boards tend to be around 5’.

I asked a similar question a few years ago and the first reply sums it up pretty well:

http://www.rodndtube.com/paipo/forum/viewtopic.php?t=70&highlight=bgreen

You come from a great part of the world.

Bob

Great link Bob.

Mark did you see this fella’s posts a few months back ?

[b]Custom Bellyboards Pt II…

[/b]There’s 1, 3 and 4 as well.

Hydrofoil Paipo Test Run

Thanks guys, im gunna reply to that thread , he obviously know what hes doing, thats beautifull.

Mark,

Here are some other spots to find different takes on paipo:

http://www.rodndtube.com/paipo/MyPaipoBoards.html#OTHER_INFO_ON_PAIPOS

http://bellyboardspaiposandkneeboards.blogspot.com/

My suggestion would be to find out what your uncle rides and have a go on it. If you like it - make something similar.

Bob

Thanks bob. I dont plan on sticking to “rules” with it, just gunna look at a few different ones, and go from there. My uncle occasionally has access to cool room insulation foam ( eps ) so i’ll hopefully scrounge up everything, and be able to experiment with his epoxies with it. I like the idea of a long one 5’ or so, with some fins on the rail. Something to lay down on in whitewater mush. I’ll happily surf knee high mush on a standup ( love my fish!! ), so it will be for small shapeless mush. Might even get the wife and kids on it.

Mark,

If it is just for mush, I would not bother with fins (the kids will just run them up on the sand and get hit by them) or worry too much about design.

Having said that, I wouldn’t just consider them for mush. I have ridden all sorts of waves, finless. Paipo can be pretty addictive. There is some interesting photos of Pipeline being ridden on paipo - see :

http://www.paipo.com/html/indexFrame.html

and for some other Hawaiian waves: http://www.rodndtube.com/paipo/riders/John_Galera/John_Galera.shtml

Some of the reefs around U would be absolutely perfect for paipo .

Bob

Just a question about rocker, but it may only apply to paipo/bodyboards…

Lengthwise…Convex rocker keeps the nose up for safety and used further back, allows the board to roll forward and aft, but slows a board because water grips to a convex curve.

Flat rocker provides minimal grip due to curve but ‘flats’ still stick to water ( like 2 wet pieces of ply) And flat rockers provide a stiff ‘digital’ style of control.

So what characteristics does a con-cave rocker have if it is used in the mid to tail area ?

Maybe something like this might work for a paipo/BB ?

(side view)

I like it because it would give lift at the nose (on right) with a traditional convex curve.

However, when planing, the step, kinda like on the ol’ Aipa/MR Stingers, would reduce the wetted surface area right back towards the tail.

The tail , with its slight concave, presents a positively angle to the water so it would give lift in the tail too.

Ultimately I think it might give a lot of lift fore and aft, minimal grip averall and the lowest possible wetted surface area at speed.

Theres a lot of variables like width, angle of concave, but I think the overall concept might be worthy of a prototype or two ??

To that end , how about a 2 piece board ?

The curves are exaggerated to illustrate the physics, but you can see that the front curve provides lift and, at speed, the tail should lift as well.

I figure maybe make it in a 2 piece form so different nose and body pieces can be mixed / matched to test the variables curves from rail to rail, outline, thickness, etc…

And heres how it might look in a more refined incarnation. Possibly witha 5/8ths thick nose section and a 2in body piece. Whatever, its just a theory at the moment.

Ive just focussed on the lengthwise rocker to get a basis for discussion and then I will certainly do a few tweaks and mods based on the suggestions later on.

What do you think ?

SF.


World sailboat speed record hull…

Ok . I can see the sail well enough.

Now where’s the boat? LOL.

That’s just crazy.

Certainly looks like Brett (Surfoils) is onto something.

Thanks for your thoughts a drawings surffoils…very interesting.

Nice kneeboards by you offbeat,esp the split-tail.

Heres a revised curve for the concave.

It allows for a smaller step to minimise breakage but also allows more variations to the concave.

With the revised concave , as the water comes off the step (a), the initial part of the concave pulls up (b) and away from the wate flow,hopefully enhancing the reduction of wetted surface.

The rear part of the concave (c) comes back down as the rear planing surface. I think thats about as good as I can theorise about the design before I actually make one.

Laterally I plan the step to be a curve (red line), the idea is that the front section should constantly plane and regulate the angle of attack of the tail section in both flatter waves (light blue water contact line) and also hollow waves ( Dark blue water contact line).

SF.

Thanks for that Surffoils.

Its hard to know which of the designs would release the water further to the tail.

I think I’m going to have a go at something like this…my only concern is in maintaining the rail line…I am working on a few ideas!

The great thing is it fits in so well with another design I have been wanting to try.

Thank you for the inspiration & thought that you have put into it…I will post some shots when I get that far…probably in a couple of months…keep us updated with yours too.

Why am I feeling that the step should be just behind the mid point on a kneeboard???

great thread…i like your idea surffoils! definetly gotta somethin like that some day…

heres some of my paipos… belly in the nose to single to double concaves around a mellow vee in the tail…

this ones not glassed yet …maybe this week…

decks…ones fully dished and the other rail grooves…

Bob Marley

deck pad

rail break and my hot glassing skills…

Bob Bottom gross ness.

the 1st…tri fin…got a 100 barrels on this board…

and the testing grounds…

Just an update,

Its eps so I can water test the shaping as it goes forward. Not many boards see water before they are glassed but its interesting to see how it sits.

The tail concave was going to be about 1 in with lots of curve and then I figured that shaping is all about keeping it smooth and not going too far away from the known functional shapes and dimensions.

It ended up about 1/2 in and has a mellow continuous curve.

The eps doesnt have any stringer so I carved 5 longitudinal channels about 3/4in deep into the deck and laid epoxy and carbonfibre into the channels. The idea is that they will keep the board rigid so that the hull concave will remain a concave when ridden.

The carbon fluffs on the cut edges and looks ugly but Im not keen on making a visually perfect board, its life will be a short one anyway because as a prototype it will be tested till it snaps or is declared a dog.

I usually dont glass the rails on prototypes so I can reshape them several times to test variables, so I glass the deck and hull but the rails will just get a coat of resin and a light sand.

Thanks for the update Surffoils.

Looking good!

I’m interested to see how your rail line works out…keep us posted.

Skamat, any chance i can see the rail grooves??, do you use fins with rail grooves, or are the grooves the fins??. How long and wide are they also??

You might find this interesting, design - wise.

From an old Surfing World 1978.

Out of production long ago but should be easy to duplicate in foam.

Length 3’ 7’’ according to this surf research

My two cent observation is that belly boards really shine in clean waves and don’t like chop and lumps-

when I was a schoolboy my mate had a really neat Dad who took him surfing all the time, and rode selfmade , Greenough spoon influenced belly boards.He seemed to have trouble in our bumpy wobbly local waves… but I could be completely wrong.

Thanks mate, the more info the better. Im keen on a longish one, 5’ x 24 or so, but again, good to have as much info as possible. I wanna bit of float with mine, not much, but a bit. I’d be using flippers so not too much.