Hi Peter. I was wondering if I could ask you a couple of questions about shaping with the roof made styrofoam that you had mentioned in a previous post. As there are several questions, maybe we could do this via email. Let me know. Dee
Hi Peter.>>> I was wondering if I could ask you a couple of questions about shaping > with the roof made styrofoam that you had mentioned in a previous post.>>> As there are several questions, maybe we could do this via email. Let me > know.>>> Dee Sure.
Sure. You sure this is the right E mail adres, there coming back to me.
Please DON’T do it by e-mail! I’m also interested in these blanks and probably other people are too.
Please DON’T do it by e-mail! I’m also interested in these blanks and > probably other people are too. Hi Peter. The email address is But, at Jack’s sugestion, I will ask my questions here. Is the foam that you use the blue stuff? I went to the DOW webpage and found Styrofoam SM with a “Min. Comp. Strength (psi)3 = 30”. Is this what you are using? I can get Styrofoam SM(blue) from a local building supply store in sheets 24" by 96" and 4" thick. This size would be sufficient for the boards that I would like to shape. If this is the foam you use…how does the compressive strength compare to Clark foam blanks? I know it will be a lot stronger than EPS, but I guess I’m wondering how it will last compared to Clark or other PU foam blanks? Also, I have heard that you should spackle EPS, but is this necessary for Styrofoam? Having looked at the foam, my guess is that this would not be necessary…you just have to like blue! Do you paint the blank white before glassing or do you do your first layers of glass with white pigment? Speaking of glass…smae amount as on PU blanks or does it require more? I guess you are using epoxy resin? Any particular brand you recommend? I know this is a lot of questions…I really appreciate your time and patience in this matter. As I have only made boards from PU blanks and polyester resin in the past, any insights you can give me on these new materials/processes will aid me greatly. Thanks Dee
I tried to find this stuff through Dow and their distributors. What little I found was verrry expensive (it worked out to be about $100 per blank before the stringer work). I also tried to find bouancy billets (the foam they use to float docks), and being in FL I figured that this material would be all over the place, it turned out to be very limited and again, very expensive (about $95 for 8’ x 24" w x 4" thick). It is better to get a supplier of 2lb. eps blocks. The best price I have got so far is a block 96" long x 50" wide x 48" thick for $720. Needless to say I don’t have that kind of cash. It is much easier to get them one at a time with stringer in them for $45 to $50. Anyone who cuts them will use whatever rocker templates you give them, if you want something custom.
Hi Mike. “it turned out to be very limited and again, > very expensive (about $95 for 8’ x 24” w x 4" thick" I’m very surprised at this. My local building supply store carries Styrofoam SM, 8’ x 24" x 4" thick for only $45…that’s Canadian! That’s about $30 US. Maybe it’s because I’m in Canada and we have a much larger market for this sort of foam(much colder winters than Florida!). At the cost of the EPS billet you found, I’d stick with the PU foam if you can get it! The Styrofoam route is better for me because I can stop giving obscene amounts of money to shipping companies to get blanks here! Good luck with the search. Dee
Yeah it must be a regional thing. I don’t know what kinds of boards you want to make but 4" thick is not going to give you very much room for rocker adjustments. That was another reason why I was looking into large blocks. Good luck to you.
Yeah it must be a regional thing. I don’t know what kinds of boards you > want to make but 4" thick is not going to give you very much room for > rocker adjustments. That was another reason why I was looking into large > blocks. Good luck to you. Hey Mike. If the board has a nose and tail thickness of 1 inch just in from the ends, then you have up to 6 inches of rocker to divide between nose and tail. I was thinking about 4 inches in the nose and 2 inches in the tail. I’m looking at making boards this flat to help increase speed on flatter waves. A miniLB is what I’m going after so a flatter blank is fine.
Hi Peter.>>> The email address is >>> But, at Jack’s sugestion, I will ask my questions here.>>> Is the foam that you use the blue stuff? I went to the DOW webpage and > found Styrofoam SM with a “Min. Comp. Strength (psi)3 = 30”. Is > this what you are using? I can get Styrofoam SM(blue) from a local > building supply store in sheets 24" by 96" and 4" thick. > This size would be sufficient for the boards that I would like to shape.>>> If this is the foam you use…how does the compressive strength compare to > Clark foam blanks? I know it will be a lot stronger than EPS, but I guess > I’m wondering how it will last compared to Clark or other PU foam blanks?>>> Also, I have heard that you should spackle EPS, but is this necessary for > Styrofoam? Having looked at the foam, my guess is that this would not be > necessary…you just have to like blue!>>> Do you paint the blank white before glassing or do you do your first > layers of glass with white pigment?>>> Speaking of glass…smae amount as on PU blanks or does it require more?>>> I guess you are using epoxy resin? Any particular brand you recommend?>>> I know this is a lot of questions…I really appreciate your time and > patience in this matter. As I have only made boards from PU blanks and > polyester resin in the past, any insights you can give me on these new > materials/processes will aid me greatly.>>> Thanks>>> Dee Yes the foam is light bleu in collor, this goes for Roof/Floor and wall types the strenght and weight from these blanks are different, Roof is like Clark green Floor more like the traditional old style foams. I use the roof type. Be carefull what paint to use, test this first ( I always do with new paint) So you can paint the blank if you want. I would recommend pigment in the resin, mainly because the resin that I use is yellowing from the UV. The results with this resin are very strong, the brand is Frencken type WA 80 in combination with VE 2778. I tryed to draw (not a very good one) in de boards part of this site ho I make the stringer in these blanks and how I used to glass before I started using the vacuum bag. You don’t have to use spackle or somthing else before you glass it. I always use an extra layer for the strenght but I can get away with the weight because of the vacuum bag. So its two on the bottom and three on top, I just like my boards to be very strong. (thats why I use carbon and Dynema to) Its strange that the price is high from what I heard, its not over here, the price is € 22,- and thats almost the same in dollars, maybe cause the dow plant is nearby. If you need some more help let me know and make sure you protect yourself when you work with epoxy, it kills. Good luck. Peter Rijk
You wrote:>>>If the board has a nose and tail thickness of 1 inch just in from the > ends, then you have up to 6 inches of rocker to divide between nose and tail??? How does that work on a 4" thick slab of foam? I don’t get that part, but then again, I’m not very bright. If you have 4" of thickness to work with for rocker and foil and the tip of the board is roughly 1" thick, how can you get 4" of nose rocker out of it? I was thinking you would get anywhere from 2 3/4" to 3" out of it. Not to mention factoring in how thick you are going to make it and how that thickness will be distributed throughout your blank. I’m probably missing something. If you don’t mind…broaden my horizons!
Yeah it must be a regional thing. I don’t know what kinds of boards you > want to make but 4" thick is not going to give you very much room for > rocker adjustments. That was another reason why I was looking into large > blocks. Good luck to you. Bend it like I tryed to draw if you need more rocker. Saw the stringer a little wider as the rocker line you want, saw the blank in two pieces and glue the stringer in between while you bend the blank. when you want to make sure it stays this way while you glass it put a strip/layer over it and tension this ( like the drawing ) hope you understand its not that diffecult to do it, harder to explain. Peter Rijk
Mike: I just dropped down here in the thread and probably should start at the top, but here is what they are describing I believe. I tried this same thing years ago when trying to come up with some alternative to trucking blanks in. I used 4" thick Dow Foam blue builder’s foam panels, 24"x8’. Cost me about $20.00 each. Cut them in half and take a piece of 6ml. doorskin paneling that has been cut to the desired rocker shape and epoxy them in. To assemble the whole rig I would put the foam across my shaping rack with a nylon strap in the center and ratchet it down until the foam matched the rocker shape. 5 gal. buckets of sand could be used for additional adjustment too. You have to clamp or strap the two halves of foam together while the epoxy dries. I like Greg Loehr’s use of foam billets and a hotwire with rocker guides as a possible alternative to buying ready made epoxy blanks. Tom Sterne>>> You wrote:>>> I don’t get that part, but then again, I’m not very bright. If you have > 4" of thickness to work with for rocker and foil and the tip of the > board is roughly 1" thick, how can you get 4" of nose rocker out > of it? I was thinking you would get anywhere from 2 3/4" to 3" > out of it. Not to mention factoring in how thick you are going to make it > and how that thickness will be distributed throughout your blank. I’m > probably missing something. If you don’t mind…broaden my horizons!
I had heard of bending and clamping before but I had always thought that if you could cut your rocker out without any tension on the block of foam (in the warp direction) that this would lessen the chance of twisting once your stringer is set in (the only tension being that of the two halves pressed to the stringer material). I buy my blanks from a guy who gets them from Greg and I had heard that he did use this flex method, but I did not know you could take it to that degree of flex. So you set (bonded) your stringer in with epoxy resin? I heard that was not the way to go, but the guy who told me that did not give a lot of explaination as to why not. The blanks I get from Greg don’t seem to have the stringer set with epoxy resin. I base this on the fact that I can take the stringer material down with a surform and the stringer cuts really nice with a block plane (easier and cleaner than basswood). I figured epoxy resin would make that whole process much more difficult. I could be wrong. Epoxy resin seems to make sense, but I wonder what the alternatives are? I do know that they are using 3mm textured pvc for the stringer material, and that they have been painting the pvc with contrasting colors, so it looks like a colored glue up from Clark. I just finished a 7’6" epoxy board (the blank came from Greg) and they used two brown (looks like wood) pvc stringers painted blue. When you shape it you obviously cut away the blue paint on the deck and bottom, leaving like a double colored glue up effect. It looks pretty cool. They also do contrasting colors, like black pvc painted red, yellow pvc painted blue, you get the idea. Thank for the info.
No, don’t take my examples as the gospel. I only messed with this for a short while and abandoned it. Surely there is a much better way to bond the stringer material into the foam. It would seem to me that if you didn’t have the foam held in place with the tension of a bend you would be better off too. I just tossed that in as an explanation of how Peter and Dee might have been using the builder’s foam. I believe the billets are the way to go. Here is something you might use. I tracked down foam billets over here in Texas using the EPS Molder’s Assoc. site and contacted some of actual extruders directly, most would sell to me so I didn’t have to go through a middle man. http://www.epsmolders.org/2-southeast.html Find someone near you and see what an entire billet will cost you, I believe I got quotes of about $325.00 per 8 footer. One guy would even do 10’ special extrusions for me for a little more. It worked out to be cheaper but only if you needed quantity. If you have reasonable access to ready made blanks the hassle of glueing up your own blanks may be too great. Tom S.>>> I had heard of bending and clamping before but I had always thought that > if you could cut your rocker out without any tension on the block of foam > (in the warp direction) that this would lessen the chance of twisting once > your stringer is set in (the only tension being that of the two halves > pressed to the stringer material). I buy my blanks from a guy who gets > them from Greg and I had heard that he did use this flex method, but I did > not know you could take it to that degree of flex.>>> So you set (bonded) your stringer in with epoxy resin? I heard that was > not the way to go, but the guy who told me that did not give a lot of > explaination as to why not. The blanks I get from Greg don’t seem to have > the stringer set with epoxy resin. I base this on the fact that I can take > the stringer material down with a surform and the stringer cuts really > nice with a block plane (easier and cleaner than basswood). I figured > epoxy resin would make that whole process much more difficult. I could be > wrong. Epoxy resin seems to make sense, but I wonder what the alternatives > are?>>> I do know that they are using 3mm textured pvc for the stringer material, > and that they have been painting the pvc with contrasting colors, so it > looks like a colored glue up from Clark. I just finished a 7’6" epoxy > board (the blank came from Greg) and they used two brown (looks like wood) > pvc stringers painted blue. When you shape it you obviously cut away the > blue paint on the deck and bottom, leaving like a double colored glue up > effect. It looks pretty cool. They also do contrasting colors, like black > pvc painted red, yellow pvc painted blue, you get the idea. Thank for the > info.
Hi Mike. The rocker in a flat blank thing… Take one of your boards and lay it on the floor. Now measure how high the top surface of the nose and tail are off of the floor. Let say the nose is 6 inches and the tail is 2 inches. At first you would think that you can’t fit that rocker into a 4 inch thick block because the nose is 6 inches, right? Add the two measures that you took and divide by 2…in this example 4. If you lift the tail of your board till it’s top surface is four inches off of the floor, now the nose has sunk down from 6 to 4 inches! It now fits the blank! I can fit a 3" thick striger with 4" nose and 2" tail rocker into the 4" block. I hope that helps. Dee
Has anyone tried laminating thinner styrofoam insulation panels together to form a blank (say four layers of one inch foam)? It seems like you do this over a form of the intended rocker (with maybe a little extra rocker for springback), you would get a blank ready to cut the template and shape. There would be no stringer, but production epoxy boards don’t have stringers either. There would also be much less waste and so it would be much cheaper. The two problems I can see are first, finding a glue that would bond the styrofoam but would not form a hard layer that would make shaping difficult. And second, forcing the panels tightly together when the glue is curing (maybe vacuum bag it). I think I might try this. Any suggestions for glue?
Yes the foam is light bleu in collor, this goes for Roof/Floor and wall > types the strenght and weight from these blanks are different, Roof is > like Clark green Floor more like the traditional old style foams. I use > the roof type. Be carefull what paint to use, test this first ( I always > do with new paint) So you can paint the blank if you want. I would > recommend pigment in the resin, mainly because the resin that I use is > yellowing from the UV. The results with this resin are very strong, the > brand is Frencken type WA 80 in combination with VE 2778. I tryed to draw > (not a very good one) in de boards part of this site ho I make the > stringer in these blanks and how I used to glass before I started using > the vacuum bag. You don’t have to use spackle or somthing else before you > glass it. I always use an extra layer for the strenght but I can get away > with the weight because of the vacuum bag. So its two on the bottom and > three on top, I just like my boards to be very strong. (thats why I use > carbon and Dynema to) Its strange that the price is high from what I > heard, its not over here, the price is ¬ 22,- and thats almost the same in > dollars, maybe cause the dow plant is nearby. If you need some more help > let me know and make sure you protect yourself when you work with epoxy, > it kills. Good luck. Peter Rijk Hi all, i also make epoxy boards(just put 2 on the boardpage) i live 1/2 a mile away from an EPS-factory.(http://www.kemisol.be/index.htm)My house is on the picture. I use a density of 40Kilo/sq.meter.(same as supergreen)the factory delivering from 10K/sq.meter too 160K/sq.meter. A friend ho work there delivering the hotwire per 30Ft. for FREE. I make the stringer and use it as a template to hotwire the EPS, then cut the blank in 2, an glue the stringer on its side using plastic tape(it flex)I dont like styrofoam, it shapes bad. it is also too britle. I pay around 200 dollar for 3Meter x 60cm x 1M
Hi all, i also make epoxy boards(just put 2 on the boardpage) i live 1/2 a > mile away from an EPS-factory.(http://www.kemisol.be/index.htm)My house is > on the picture. I use a density of 40Kilo/sq.meter.(same as supergreen)the > factory delivering from 10K/sq.meter too 160K/sq.meter. A friend ho work > there delivering the hotwire per 30Ft. for FREE. I make the stringer and > use it as a template to hotwire the EPS, then cut the blank in 2, an glue > the stringer on its side using plastic tape(it flex)I dont like styrofoam, > it shapes bad. it is also too britle. I pay around 200 dollar for 3Meter x > 60cm x 1M I want to glass one of these blanks with polyester resin,old time opaque lay up,resin pins gloss an polish.I am still trying to find a primer for the blank.I have heard about white glue but would like something more user friendly.What about rolling on a coat of latex primer? Why? you might say…don’t know really just a thought and I like dead flat decks.
Yup Mike. D, you re right. I ordered few EPS foam blocks previously. As few of them is 5’L x 2’W x 5"thickness, just cost me HK$65.00 or US$8.5.00. These foam blocks originally planned for skimboard building. I used one for building mini shortboard of 4’10" L x 18" W. And finally, I found the rocker is too little. BTW, I have seen some kitboard/waveboard builder using 3-4 sheets 1/2" thick styrofoam and glue it up to shape. Regards, Crabie