ive been reading the posts here for a week or so (with more frequency than i probably should) and ive come up with a few questions. 1) ive never shaped a board and have no goal of making $$ at it- i have a job already- but im interested in making boards for myself and a few friends: how much investment (money and time) do you think are required before i can produce a quality board? 2) do any of you use the concept of phi or the golden section (ratio) in your boards? it seems like a logical place to start a board from, and it’s the main reason i’d like to start shaping and 3) has anyone experimented with eco-friendly products? any help is much appreciated

I’ve never tallied up how much initial costs are but here are most of the basic tools you’ll need: Hitachi Clark modified electric planer Stanley Sureform Sanding block Sandpaper, #40, #60, #100, #120 Grit Small finishing plane Two shaping stands Two eight foot flourescent sidelights An enclosed room to shape in I curious as to this phi concept you’ve mentioned. I hope you attempt to at least shape one board for yourself. If it ends up being a good rider you’ll never be the same. Good luck.

Phi (“fee”) is discussed in the current best seller “The DaVinci Code”. I still remember the lecture in Art History 30+ years ago on the topic. Google has lots of links - here’s one… It would be interesting to see it in surf vehicle form. Have you heard about tardigrades?

did it august 28 his year… fibonacci …golden thumbprint of god… engineers … stools maybe Ill make a board but I have to think about it…graph paper … late night bright light drawing board falling asleep getting graphite in the piping of your green visor… and for what when you can just go to bed early get up early go to the beach and have a nice day in the sun come home shape a board glass it sand it gloss it surf it why this phi stuff will only drive you into insanity …unless you just wanna talk about DA VINK…could the guy body surf or WHAT?perhaps historicly the greatest Italian bodysurfer of all time…didnt he invent duck feet udt fins?..ambrose…sittin on the duckfeet

No shaper here, but have some limited experience with the golden mean from school daze, and at my job. It is an effective ordering device for proportional relatives, but is not absolute. Sometimes the proportions just don’t ‘feel’ right, so I change it to what does. It also may be primarily a western device also, because I have a co-worker from China, and he just doesn’t seem to get it at all. What I’ve seen from a little lurking, is that shaping is more art and experience, than formuliac expression.

I still say that you can shape a board or two without an electric planer. It’s going to take a lot more elbow grease, and take a lot more work to get it level and even… but it won’t matter for 1 or 2. If you have to go over to Harbour Freight and get a cheepy… but don’t drop a couple of bills on the modified until you figure out wether this is something you want to invest time and money into (and that means all your free time obsessing about it). As far as Phi? Well I’m not going to say that it has no place in shaping… well, yes, I am. Atleast no more of a place than Pi and e and 137 (Quantum electrodynamics). If you look for a simularity you will always find one. If you can use it to help you think outside the box, than go with it… but don’t take it for gospel.

JohnO, Just set up a new shaping “shack”. I already had the building (14’ x 16"). Bought all new tools …Planer, grinder (Harbor freight) sure forms, fred tool (made myself) stands, calipers, planes (stanley) blocks/sandpaper and screen. Sheetrocked the shed, painted (isle of Capri blue), dual 8’lights. Breaker box and associated wiring! I ordered four blanks, 5 gallons resin, styrene, MEKP, 30 yrds cloth, various squeegees. Whew!, basically everything needed to have a great shaping set-up plus enough supplies to do 4 boards. Total out $1200. Seems like a lot but I have a great set up. the cost per board will be worth the effort. Even at this outlay the first four for $300 ea. is not bad. Still quite a bit less than retail. Average cost per board is usually around $150/$225 depending on fins used and how much material you buy at a time…Mass quantities! Once you start you will be surprised how many people will want boards! have fun! ALso order 4 blanks at a time if they have to ship, they can send 4 in a box for the same shipping cost as one! MLC

Eco friendly boards… epoxy laminations. VOC free. 1/3 the use level. 1/50th the vapor of poly No acetone required for clean up.

Use close tolerance blanks and you won’t need electric planer or surform. A saw, sharp block plane, and sanding belts on long blocks and flex pads will work fine for a few boards. Finish sand with screen over soft upholstery foam. I’ve found that costs for assorted supplies like good masking tape, brushes and razor blades add up fast. If you fall prey to Swayloholicism, there’s no end to what you can spend on the “perfect” set up. Tools, shop space, lights, fans, vacuum rigs, etc can eat you alive. Timewise, same thing. Get a Surftech before it’s too late.

how would you use phi in surfboard design?

“Geometry has two great treasures: one is the theorem of Pythagoras; the other, the division of a line into extreme and mean ratio. The first we may compare to a measure of gold; the second we may name a precious jewel.” – Johannes Kepler [1571-1630] 15 years I was given some numbers, suggestions for rocker breaks. “1/3 back from the nose for your entry rocker break, 1/4 up from the tail for the tail rocker break,” growled the shaper. Hmmmm, wonder how phi might fit into all that. Example: 7 foot tri-fin (84" x .618 = 51.92). 84" - 51.92 = 32.088 = nose rocker break according to phi. 1/3 back from the nose on a 7 footer would be 28", a 4" difference. Starting from nose rocker break 56" and checking the tail rocker break: (56 x .618 = 34.608) 56 - 34.608 = 21.392" = tail rocker break according to phi. 84 x 1/4 = 21 = tail rocker break 1/4 up from tail. Some people on this board speak in almost hushed tones when talking about the venerated 7’ roundtail hull. Why? It might have something to do with phi. 84" x .618 = 51.92 = approximately 52". Interesting that that distance, 10 inches above center happens to be the wide point of that particular board, approximately where the entry rocker breaks, and where the deepest part of the hull is concentrated (perhaps another 3 1/2" inches forward for the hull). Of course, perhaps phi has nothing whatsoever to do with designing and building surfboards. But, like it or not, the concept is used against us every waking moment to extract money from our wallets. Don’t think so? Open a magazine sometime and notice where your eyes tend. I doubt it’s coincidence that the product being sold, its placement on the page and phi have something in common. I know I know, it’s all bullshit. Shaping’s about feel, man. “We see what we want to see. Eliminate the want, and we see things as they are.” – Sri Ramana Maharshi “There is suffering.” – Gautama Buddha There is sufring + fe – Associative Property of Equality There is surfing + fe – Commutative Property of Equality Notice phi then detach from it, but, like a wave, you gotta use it to get free of it.

HUH? …Grant Roloff

So Spencer, if your suffering and you go surfing the byproduct is iron?