Pin-line problems .... A little help please.

General Discussion
1

Hello there all,

Once again, advanced thanks for all your comments and help. 

So, I recently pin-lined a 9’0 with black acrylic paint ( Harbour Surfboards technique ) . The board is clear white with nose fabric inlay. It went down pretty well and I pulled tape and all was good. (The pin-line was done after sanded hotcoat and pre gloss.) I then scuffed up the pinline with a scotch brite and did my gloss coat. No problems. No seperation or weirdness on the pin line, all was good. 

Then, I started sanding the gloss with 320 and some how went through the gloss on the pin line in a few spots. When I rubbed the pinline with a gloved finger, it put a black smudge on the glove.

What should I do to fix this?

I was thinking of a few options ;

  • re tape the small areas ive gone through the gloss and exposed the paint and re- gloss them and blend them in? … Then sand/compound/polish as usual.

  • re tape the entire pin line and spray the pin line with some sort of clear coat? …Then sand / comp /pol 

  • re tape the entire pinline and re gloss pin-line ? ( least favorite idea ) …Then sand / comp / pol

 

( - And if I had used resin and pigment for my pinline I would be able to sand it without worrying , right? or wrong? )

 

Anyways,

 If there are any experienced pin-liners out there who have any advice or ideas regarding this , your help would be most appreciated.

Thanks so much for your time.

  

 

2

Hey brother, I´m no pro but I think the best to do is to completely remove the pin line and do a new resin pin line. Remember to use thick resin and catalize very HOT , when It gels firmly you pull the tape. Gloss coat an 4’’ band over the new pin. When sanding dont try to ´´flat´´ the pin line…just leave a very little bump.

 

  

3

So, I’m in favor of making things flat… I will sacrifice looks for form.  SO…

If you sanded into it but it still looks OK but you can get pigment on your finger, just do a coat with acrylic sealant.  That will seal everything up and make it look nice and won’t add a lot of weight.  OR you can do another hot coat and it will be fine but a bit heavier.

4

I used to add a drop of that purple promoter to the pin line mix, it would gel quicker and it would help a lot with stopping color bleeding.

Definitely quicker to sand off and restart…repairing pin lines on new boards is a bit of a no no for me…

5

I think that purple Promoter you are talking about is cobolt.

6

If your really antsy I’d fix the spots and gloss over. Best bet is to totally redo pin lines and gloss over the line. As far as the resin pin line goes, never done one but I figure you could still sand through, don’t see why it wouldn’t sand

7

The problem with using that pinline technique is the paint goes on really thick and takes forever to dry completely; this is why it smudged.  It may have seemed dry on the surface but it obviously wasn’t.   If you want faster, then use posca pens or a resin line.  If you prematurely seal undry paint, it will NEVER dry.  To fix what you have, sand or use a blade to scrape off the smudged parts.  Retape those parts of the line and use a posca pen to touch up.  Pull the tape and hit the area with an clear acrylic spray with whatever the rest of the finish is (matte, gloss).  You can also regloss the area instead of the spray.

8

I like resin pins but…you can use lacquer spray bombs from the auto paint store. I use Duplicolor. I showed how to do this in the Master Glasser Video.

9

Resin or lacquer pins have the advantage of being the last thing to do on the board, so you can touch them up or redo entirely.  Resin pins can be done over a hotcoat (sand finish) or over/under a glosscoat.  Acrylic or Posca pins need to be under a hot or glosscoat.  If the blank is painted a light color, you can pin line right on that, but that needs to be done with a Posca using outline templates as a guide.  If you tape pins on a painted blank, the color outside the pins will usually pull off with the tape. 

10

Hello there all. Wow thanks for all the feed back, sorry for my lack of replys but Ive been out of cell range for a while… 

Wildy and the Buellster, I would totally re-do the pinlines and I agree that would be the cleanest, the problem I have with that is that the pin was done on top of the sanded hotcoat, then the board was glossed… so I would have to sand all the gloss off, then the pinline and I could foresee that getting messy and complicated. 

As it is, the majority of the pinline is good and there are just a few areas where I have sanded the gloss off and exposed the ( still not dry, thanks Petec ) acrylic paint, and only one tiny spot where I have actually sanded away the pin …So.

I think considering all your kind advice, I will retape the areas that are a bit funky and go over it with a Posca paint pen, THEN retape the entire pinline , brown paper off the rest off the board and hit the pinline only with a Spray Acrylic Gloss coat…

Does this sound like a decent plan ???

As the board is sanded to 320 and awaiting wet sand and polish, I would do the repair work THEN do the wetsand and polish , right ???

The gloss spray I have got hold of is - Krylon Colormaster, clear finish, gloss spray. It says -

" Colormaster with Colormax technology Acyrlic Crystal Clear Finish provides a protective, non - yellowing finish."

Again, thankyou all for your hard earned tips and technique’s, and please let me know if you think this is a good plan or not before I go at it…

not sure where I would be without this website, wandering blindly through a board-building minefield probably! 

Thanks so much for your time.

11

Sounds like a decent plan. I’ve never used posca, hopefully it doesn’t look different than the acrylic. I did just do some ding repair and redid only the spots on the pin line that got sanded through and I can’t tell the difference. The spray clear might be thinner and easier to sand through again as you go through the grits, than if you went over the areas with gloss resin. 

12

Buellster, you may be right there, touching up the areas and then re-glossing just the pinline may be a better way to go. 

Would the glossed pinline adhere well enough to the board? I have visions of the pinline chipping off? 

So I can either

A - do touch ups , THEN mask off and spray with clear, then wet sand , then polish… OR

B - do touch ups, mask off, re- gloss pin-line, THEN wet sand and polish.

If you were me people, which would you pick? A or B ??!!

Thanks again for everyones input regarding this problem. 

 

 

13

Option C:  Sand to 220 over the current pins, mask new pins over old ones, use resin pins (sand resin, heavy pigment + more catalyst), sand top and scrape off any bleed on edges, gloss over, sand gloss back into original and polish.

Resin pins under a gloss coat don’t chip because the gloss creates a fillet on the bottom edges due to the pins being raised. Just how wide are these pinlines anyhow?

14

Petec, thanks so much for the response I think your option is the best one. The pinlines are 1/8th wide. The board is all white with a nose teardrop fabric inlay, so there is pin-line round the bottom edge of that also. I have sanded the pinline area down to 220 and re-taped the pins with 233+, inch wide tape. So , I’ll

-Mix up 2oz of gloss resin, surface agent, black pigment and cat…

-Then using a 1/2 inch brush brush in on quite quickly…

-Then pull tape and wait 24 hrs to be sure its dry…

-Then tape around the pin-line on both sides leaving about 1/2 inch between tape and pinline…

-Then gloss over the pin, pull tape, wait till dry, feather edge of gloss strip into board with 220 then 320.

-Then the whole board would be at 320 and I can proceed with wetsand/compound/polish and be done with this damn board and move on!!

Does that sound about right??

I have a few queries…I have researched the archives on pin-lines and many people had problems with a seemingly dry resin pin bleeding under gloss resin. From what I can deduce its because it didnt kick fast enough and is therfore affected by the styrene?? 

  • For 2oz of gloss resin and pigment, how many cc’s of cat would you add? 

  • and how much surface agent?

  • once I’ve brushed the resin on the pin would you then use a little squeegee and run it over the pin-line to take execess off or just brush and let it settle then pull tape? 

Sorry if I sound pedantic about all this, I just think I may blow a gasket if I have to re-do this pin-line a third time!!

        Thanks again all for your hard earned advice and knowledge. Cheers. 

 

 

15

I don’t use gloss resin for pin lines;  it’s far too thin, kicks too slow, and more likely to have tape bleed.  Use sand resin, overpigment and over catalyze.  You can also use UV.  Whichever cure you choose, there will usually be some bleed under the tape or a ragged edge in spots.  Clean these up by scraping with a blade using a drafting french curve as a guide.  Block sand the pins down slightly before you scrape those edges, then finally use 220 paper on a stirring stick to sand around the lines before glossing.  On longboards, you may want to do only 1/2 at a time using a hot resin mix.  You will likely be putting  resin over the line more than once as you babysit it before it hardens, so mix enough  and mask out to the rail edge so it runs off.  Pull the tape as soon as the resin edge will hold without running and pull towards the line.  No squeegee, 1/2" brush or just a stir stick; it’s very heavy coat and pulling the tape at the right time is what forms the line.  Good luck

16

…hello PetecC, do you say that the resin pinlines are the last step; is not that way; resin pinlines are made on top of the hot coat, then gloss coat on top.

If you do the resin pinlines on top of the gloss, you need to sand the area first and then after the pinlines, re do the gloss coat.

17

Thanks Petec, that sounds like a plan. 

So sanding resin and not gloss resin. Ok. When I do a hotcoat my “sanding” resin is normal lam resin with surface agent (wax) added. I usually add twice what the cat is.  - ie, 30oz resin, 15cc cat, 30cc surf ag. Seems to work out well for my hotcoats. So is this what you mean? or do I need a different resin?

  • If i mixed up 3 oz of resin, how much (in cc’s) of cat and surf ag would you guys add to get it to kick nice and fast?

  • How long after pulling the tape would you leave it to harden before I retape and do my gloss strip?

Thanks again you guys, kinda flying blind on this one and really appreciate the advice. Cheers.

 

18

Another reason for resin bleed is using too much pigment. Resin pins are actually a bit transparent…I usually go over a tape off twice. Same batch…just go over twice and flow the pin with your brush. Its like doing  mini gloss.

 

19

Thanks CleanLines , thats great advice. 

Any advice on above questions regarding cat/surf amounts etc?  Cheers.

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MANY WAYS TO SKIN A CAT !         white in resin…black in liquitex acrylic paint.

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