I’m thinking of doing an 8’er, wide and flat rockered single for gliding fun on smaller days, maybe trying some steps towards the nose, but also something that will turn when I ask it to. For an outline, I’m planning on something much like balsa’s grey board:
Probably pretty wide, 22.5 or so. I normally do all my boards with fairly down rails, and I’m wanting to try some more pinched out rails for this one.
First question, would the more pinched out, higher apex rails better suit that kind of board and riding conditions? Second,I’ve never done this kind of rail before, and I’m actually looking for some kind of graphic guidance. I have kind of (crudely) sketched what I’m thinking about on the left side of this image, and then an equally crude sketch of my typical rails on the other.
Looking at this image, what would be your impressions of the riding qualities of rails like this? What would improve them for the glide/paddle/hold,turnability?
Or is it as simple as, if I like down rails on my other boards, then I’ll like them on a minitanker as well?
I’m thinking of doing an 8’er, wide and flat rockered single for gliding fun on smaller days, maybe trying some steps towards the nose, but also something that will turn when I ask it to. For an outline, I’m planning on something much like balsa’s grey board:
Probably pretty wide, 22.5 or so. I normally do all my boards with fairly down rails, and I’m wanting to try some more pinched out rails for this one.
First question, would the more pinched out, higher apex rails better suit that kind of board and riding conditions? Second,I’ve never done this kind of rail before, and I’m actually looking for some kind of graphic guidance. I have kind of (crudely) sketched what I’m thinking about on the left side of this image, and then an equally crude sketch of my typical rails on the other.
Looking at this image, what would be your impressions of the riding qualities of rails like this? What would improve them for the glide/paddle/hold,turnability?
Or is it as simple as, if I like down rails on my other boards, then I’ll like them on a minitanker as well?
Here’s something I found that might help you out …
Rails
Terms (thanks to Doc for words and drawings):
Round rail - like it says, round, like a half circle.
Egg rails - like round rails, except drawn out a bit so they bite in some and help you hold an edge on a wave.
50/50 rails - drawn out even more, with the ‘point’ in the middle of the rail, about halfway from deck to bottom like this.
60/40 rails - same as 50/50s, but the 'point is just a skosh lower down towards the bottom.
Down rails - the ‘edge’ of the board, is right at the bottom. The rest of the board eases over to it.
Rolled rails- they are down rails, but kinda rolled under.
Soft rail - has a radius of at least half an inch
Hard rail - may have a radius of 1/8 inch or less.
Down rails bite in good, hold well and are fast. They also turn like a bandit. But down rails are either hard or soft which refers to the radius of the curve.
Rolled rails will hold okay, but will also behave like a really round rail. This means the board can be looser with the weight shifted forward.
Soft rails allow you to ease out a turn, make a little controlled slippage if you want while hard rails bite in, hard, and can cause a few problems like “catching a rail”. You wouldn’t want an all-hard downrailed board. Usually, it’s more like this, from nose to tail- round to rolled (see the next bit) to hard down rails.
Or even more complicated - hard, down rails right at the first foot of nose, for lift as you take off, easing to a very soft low but not down rail about midway so that the main edge at the middle of the board will ‘swoosh’ a bit (love that high-tech terminology) and then easing down and getting harder towards the tail for a positive bite when you want to hold an edge going across a steep part of the wave or turn.
A hard rail is usually also a down rail.
Thinner rails pierce the water and hold you in there, while thicker rails won’t get hung up in transitions.
Generally, sharper and lower rail line designs give decisive control when riding fast on the back third of the board, shortboard style, but are more difficult and less forgiving than soft rails. Sharper rails are also needed if sweeping turns are done using more rail than fin (like when a surfer positions himself towards the middle of the board, rather than at the back of the board over the fins) or the board will bog down. For a beginner a hard rail in the tail is ok as long as it gradually softens in the middle and front two-thirds of the board.
A soft rounded rail allows the surfer to completely exploit his fin’s turning radius. Since torque is equal to force times distance, non-biting rails allow turning from near the tail to be fast and effortless in smaller surf. Tricks and many higher scoring contest maneuvers are also easier to perform with soft rails. The chief problem with soft rails in faster waves is speed. Since more actual rail contact is made with the wave face on large or quick breaking waves, soft rails will create more friction and thus more drag.
Thin rails also have “tuck”, meaning the sharper part of the edge is near the bottom.Many board designs have a softer rail in the front, and slowly curve to a harder, tucked rail in the rear. The softer front can be a little more forgiving while turning while a hard rail will sometimes “bite” the side of a wave when turning in a tight spot causing problems.
One of the most important speed considerations is rail shape since to make the board break free and plane a hard rail will
encourage water release and fast planing and high top end speeds. The problem is hard rails are not that loose and want to turn only in the arc supplied by the combination of the rocker and tail template.
Rails
Terms (thanks to Doc for words and drawings):
Round rail - like it says, round, like a half circle.
Egg rails - like round rails, except drawn out a bit so they bite in some and help you hold an edge on a wave.
50/50 rails - drawn out even more, with the ‘point’ in the middle of the rail, about halfway from deck to bottom like this.
60/40 rails - same as 50/50s, but the 'point is just a skosh lower down towards the bottom.
Down rails - the ‘edge’ of the board, is right at the bottom. The rest of the board eases over to it.
Rolled rails- they are down rails, but kinda rolled under.
Soft rail - has a radius of at least half an inch
Hard rail - may have a radius of 1/8 inch or less.
Down rails bite in good, hold well and are fast. They also turn like a bandit. But down rails are either hard or soft which refers to the radius of the curve.
Rolled rails will hold okay, but will also behave like a really round rail. This means the board can be looser with the weight shifted forward.
Soft rails allow you to ease out a turn, make a little controlled slippage if you want while hard rails bite in, hard, and can cause a few problems like “catching a rail”. You wouldn’t want an all-hard downrailed board. Usually, it’s more like this, from nose to tail- round to rolled (see the next bit) to hard down rails.
Or even more complicated - hard, down rails right at the first foot of nose, for lift as you take off, easing to a very soft low but not down rail about midway so that the main edge at the middle of the board will ‘swoosh’ a bit (love that high-tech terminology) and then easing down and getting harder towards the tail for a positive bite when you want to hold an edge going across a steep part of the wave or turn.
A hard rail is usually also a down rail.
Thinner rails pierce the water and hold you in there, while thicker rails won’t get hung up in transitions.
Generally, sharper and lower rail line designs give decisive control when riding fast on the back third of the board, shortboard style, but are more difficult and less forgiving than soft rails. Sharper rails are also needed if sweeping turns are done using more rail than fin (like when a surfer positions himself towards the middle of the board, rather than at the back of the board over the fins) or the board will bog down. For a beginner a hard rail in the tail is ok as long as it gradually softens in the middle and front two-thirds of the board.
A soft rounded rail allows the surfer to completely exploit his fin’s turning radius. Since torque is equal to force times distance, non-biting rails allow turning from near the tail to be fast and effortless in smaller surf. Tricks and many higher scoring contest maneuvers are also easier to perform with soft rails. The chief problem with soft rails in faster waves is speed. Since more actual rail contact is made with the wave face on large or quick breaking waves, soft rails will create more friction and thus more drag.
Thin rails also have “tuck”, meaning the sharper part of the edge is near the bottom.Many board designs have a softer rail in the front, and slowly curve to a harder, tucked rail in the rear. The softer front can be a little more forgiving while turning while a hard rail will sometimes “bite” the side of a wave when turning in a tight spot causing problems.
One of the most important speed considerations is rail shape since to make the board break free and plane a hard rail will
encourage water release and fast planing and high top end speeds. The problem is hard rails are not that loose and want to turn only in the arc supplied by the combination of the rocker and tail template.
what type of wave will you be surfing the most? eg, if a point break then go with 50/50. if more beach break i’d go with a soft 60/40, especially since it’s your first time with this type of rail. later on, if you feel comfortable with a 60/40 then try a 50/50 pinched rail.just a thought…
first of all, I didn’t forget about the measurements. I will get them soon and send them to you. Second, the main reason for pinched rails on this one (besides the “retro” look) is because the bottom is actually a hull shape. This convex curve automatically leads to that kind of rails. You set the right thickness for your weight/type of waves ridden then gently taper the rail to a “gothic arch” shape. I find this shape to hold in steep waves very well while allowing a very “flowing” style of turn, very positive overall. Of course, it’s meant to work as a single-fin design, I’m not sure it would be any good with a thruster set-up. Did anyone try that? I’m curious.
Everything you propose in your opening post will work quite well. Even the ‘‘Balsa’s grey’’ outline is a tried and true form. It may surprise you to know that it will be very like the solid balsa boards of the 1957/1959 period. With the lighter weight of foam, and modern fins and fin placement, it will be an OUTSTANDING performer. Go for it as you envision it.
Cheers for re-posting this, bang on time for me as I’m about to start shaping the rails on a hollow wooden I’m building for a friend. I printed it and gave it to him to read as it explains it way better than I can.
All I do are 50/50 pinched rails on single fins and I feel it’s the best way to go. The only way to get the glide is to have a 50/50 rail and making them knifey alows you to turn it easy. If you would like I can sketch out how I do my bevels for reference.
This would be for a complete 50/50 rail all the way through the board, which I like to do. To make more of a down rail just edit the bottom bevel. The depth of each bevel (marked with X’s) is simply the thickness of the rail divided by 5.
Something like this perhaps? I was trying to figure out how to describe the rails, that’s how I ended up here. Dims = 17", 22", 14 -1/2 Someone just gave me this board. 8’ Haute 70’s single fin. 9-1/2" Yeater fin. Haven’t ridden going to patch up first. There’s a bit of a twist in the board from being stored 20 years cockeyed. I just realized that i didn’t post very many rail pics…i’m assuming that seeing the overall shape will give a better context.
I will. Did you see that i wrote that it’s twisted - if you look closely in one of the pictures you can see it a bit… at least its gradual. Someone told me that it should ride alright that, it’s NOT, a “deal killer.”
I love this board! Just took it out in some waist high beach break. The twist felt kind of interesting under foot. I’m sure it causes some kind of drag but it feels weirdly “drivey”. I mostly caught lefts and didn’t do any bottom turns. I can’t wait to take it out again. I’m going to patch it up and baby this board and now i’m thinking about copying when ever i get around to shaping my first board. Rrr actualy on second thought, the rails, deck, nose and rocker seem a bit complicated. It has a slight V throught the bottom and past the tail , and i’m nit sure about the widepoint etc. I’m in the Monterey bay area if someone wants to look at this board in person and poasibly shape a copy for me or advise me a bit, those rails look daunting…that being said any advice here on Swaylocks would be appreciated…I suppose the first question is: what blank to use? I’ll report back when i get it in some better waves and turn the thing.
Aprox. 3" inch. thick in the middle, (see 3rd picture white patch) seems to carry thickness out to the rails and it has a kind of a beak nose (but round) and the tail area seems to be thinner. First 2 pictures are a foot from the nose at slightly different angles, aprox. 1-1/2 " . The picture where i’m pinching with fingers makes it look super fat and it kind of is but i think its the camera lens exaggerating a bit. I pinched the flat spot of deck just before the rails begin to form.
Surfed it today for the second time at a different break, slightly more pitchy. I was a bit to casual rolling in and waiting to pop up and the nose dropped, btw im a bit out of shape;) I paddled hard and took off late on a left, crouched down grab rail WOW this board is FAST. So far I only notice the twist paddling. I’m going to take it out tomorrow then i promised myself i would dry it out and patch it up. It’s thick and what not but its so beautifully balanced, i love this board! I can’t make out the first name but the last is Heitmann.
