Planer Design

Hi Swaylocks

I am currently a junior in the Industrial Design program at Arizona State University and have taken on the task of re-signing a power planer this semester. In the summers I work as a Newport Beach lifeguard which has given me plenty of time for surfing and a little exposure to shaping. I have come to Swaylocks in search of insight and research.

Naturally, I have chosen to target my final product at your community of surfboard shapers, essentially designing a planer for the function of shaping polyurethane foam into surfboards.

If anyone would be so kind share any of their knowledge it would be so greatly appreciated. Any insight as to what are some features you have trouble with on your current models. What are the most important features on the tool to you. Who are the industry leaders beyond Hitachi, Makita and Skil? Is having a super smooth shoe very important? What are the 3 to 4 most used depth measurements you use? is on the fly depth adjustment key, how so? exit ports to hoses? could a twin handle model be accepted in your industry? What is the average AMPs on your planer? Anything anyone would like to share of existing problems with there tool would be so helpful.

Thank you in advance for you time and help

Actually…all you have to do is look at the Skil 100.

There is good reason it is the most sought after planer for building surfboards.

It has ALL of the key points you are looking for.

Hope that helps

I agree, but a mix of the Skill 100 and of the Hitachi P20 (“Clark” modified) would probably satisfy more people.

Actually, the ideal planer would (IMHO) feature a variable length base (removable/switchable different lengths base-plates com to mind) which would allow shaping shortboards or longboards, a helicoïdal cutter like the one on the Festool that could easily be replaced by a grit barrel, lots of power (no speed loss on heavy stringers), rounded base-plates sides (no catching edges when moving back and forth sideaways), top exhaust for vacuum fitting, rear handle with the same angle as the Skill 100 (no steam iron, please). Aluminum body would probably be out of the question economically speaking, but a nice aluminum powder filled plastic would be fine for us nostalgic guys…

Awesome, this is all good beta. Although it has lead me to more questions with different base plates for shortboards and longboards would you prefer a wider drum to remove a wider plane of material? as well as this I have looked at the Festool model several times but am not sure what a Helicoidal cutter is? Thanks for a great start to my research!

A wider drum would be hard to negociate curvy parts with. The Skill is 75 mm wide and the Hitachi is 82 mm (sorry, it’s easier for me with mm than sixteenths of inches).

A helicoïdal cutter is this (this one is from my brand new Rockwell, thanks again, John):

Those helicoïdal blades cut smoother and are much less noisy, too.

are there 3 average depths you cut with or just one? I feel as though “adjusting on the fly” is very important. but why is this and what would be the best measurements to include on this model?

I wish some more experienced people than me would enter that thread… I don’t feel really qualified to speak for people who have shaped hundreds of thousands boards and who would certainly point out things I don’t even think of.

So, speaking only for myself, the “on-the-fly” adjustment allows you to modify rocker in certain areas of the blank (starting in a given place at “zero depth” and progressively increasing the cut). Same with the beveling of the rails. Actually, I use a fixed depth of cut (usually max depth) only for “skinning” the blank as I’ve been told that the deeper the better to level bumps and twists. Then it’s playing around with the “on-the-fly” for the rest of the shape. In fact, you get to shape as much by ear (listening to what the planer is doing) as by eye. Again, not sure that what I do is THE way it should be done and I may have taken very bad habits through years of shaping alone with nobody to tell me how to do things properly. I’m trying to get up to what guys like Jim Phillips are doing in their videos but, needless to say, I have still a long way to go… That’s what Swaylock’s is all about.

Three years ago, we got together with a bunch of engineering students and started listing what would be needed for the “ideal” surfboard shaping planer. The idea was to perhaps buid it on a small scale. As is often the case, the project didn’t stand the next summer holidays: everybody went back home, looked for a job and all that was left of the “ideal” planer was a kind of check-list that I may still have somewhere in my archives. But then, admitting that I found it, I still would have to translate it in English…

Balsa’s doing a good job so far, I couldn’t disagree with anything he’s said. A ‘‘clean sheet of paper’’ planer design IS an intriguing prospect. I like his idea of lots of power and spiral blades. That would allow a deeper cut for faster foiling and thickness reduction. But the cut adjustment also has to go back past zero to allow small cuts on convex surfaces, so getting that range and still having precise control might be difficult. The adjustment ‘‘arm’’ might have to swing through a wider arc.

"On-the-fly’’ is critical for a number of reasons. Speed or ease of use is certainly one of them. But it’s more for accuracy than anything else; ‘‘fade’’ cuts (zero to full or full to zero, etc.) can only be done that way, and all kinds of other little things we do depend on it. I think most non-pros would be more amazed at how little foam we can take off with a planer, rather than how MUCH. It can be a very delicate tool in the right hands. Watch Mr. Phillips to see what I mean.

It’s funny, there’s so many things I do every day with my Hitachi that I never really thought about until I started answering people’s questions on Sways. The subtle dance of pressure from baseplate to shoe, angles of cut, which finger I put on the adjustment… I had to go to work and grab the tool to answer that last one, I had no idea how I did it. It’s one of those deals where it’s just second nature after all these years, not a ‘‘conscious’’ thing.

12AMP’s of Power would be ideal!

Since this has turned into an open brainstorming session, how about the depth adjustment behind the triggger in the handle. Similar to a chain saw safety. Squeeze to deepen. Left hand would be on a fixed handle for steering and control.

everysurfer in terms of engineering and mechanics that was a genius idea! We have a group working on chain saws so I will be speaking with them as well as some engineers to make this work today.

Any actual numbers as to what depths you guys cut at? I assume 1/4" in the begining on the raw blank but what kind of measurements happen after that?

My last big question pertain to the primary handle and front knob, do you think these could be abandoned and replaced with twin handles that would make it easier to walk alongside the tool? this way walking about the saw horses with the tool in use would be easier to handle. Would this be accepted? or are shapers engrained in their ways with the existing planer tool?

I’ll be expecting my royaly check in the mail!

If you get to making one, I’ll be first in line to try it out.

It shouldn’t be too hard to do. Put a cam under the lever, drives a push rod to the next cam, which drives the front shoe. Just get the tension right by cam size and leaf springs.

I remember there was an old thread on planer mods where this very thing was discussed. There were a couple of “alternate” depth adjustment mechanisms which people made.

As someone who hasn’t spent very much time using a skil- or hitachi-type planer, I think that a grip like a bicycle brake on the right hand with a cable to the shoe for depth adjustment, and the power button on the left hand would be the best setup for control. The problem, however, is convention. Most serious shapers have cut their teeth on the rotating depth control like is found on the skil or hitachi. A different setup might be easier to initially learn, and would probably pick up new adherents, but the core shapers won’t want to relearn the mechanics of depth adjustment, not once they’ve developed it as second nature.

For me, I’d really like to try a right-hand depth adjustment. :slight_smile:

Edit, here we go, try these:

http://www2.swaylocks.com/node/1027800

http://www2.swaylocks.com/node/1018266

Looks like the photos were lost on the open-source thread, too bad.

Herb Spitzer rigged up his planers with machine gun grips. Pics are long gone I guess. Herb???

Ahhhh yes. This would be great to actually see something come of this.

Some key features.

The Handle: Modern electric hand planers are usually all wrong. This is one mod that the clark foam hitachi has going for it, more vertical handle for a smoothe pushing and pulling motion.

Smoothe rounded base/shoe plates: No hard edges to catch and gouge the foam.

Dust chute: a backyard mod on the hitachi and skil 100 places the dust chute pointing straight up. Very nice.

On the fly depth adjustment: This is a must

12amps or so would be awesome.

Finally, a nice heavy metal housing. One thing that skil100 has that I love.

Hope that helps.

Ah yes! There was actually an entire thread with some planer mods that Tyson and I did(among others)

Actually, it was Tysons thread…I just jumped in later and now I’m trying to take the credit.

Here’s that thread just in case you wanted some home style mods.

http://www2.swaylocks.com/node/1029487

I would want, in this order:

2 cup holders, heated handle, muffler (to shape at midnight), auto-pilot, a bell, am/fm/weather radio, and some sort of attachment to use to brush my teeth with as well.

David P

Assemble a specification with everyone’s input. Assign a target retail cost of less than $500. Do a financial feasibly analysis (P&L, start-up costs, etc). Let me know your conclusion. I assume you’re looking to make these in the US. Not trying to be a smart-ass, but I’ve been there and not going back.

That’s right! Pete’s avatar is actually a pic of him walking away from the whole thing. LOL

hmm, I have used several inexpensive planers. Every one was “good enough” in its time, and every one beat skinning a blank with a surform.

Amps don’t measure power but they are the commonly used indicator. 12 amps is close to the commonly used 15 amp house circuit rating. For a tool that may be in near-continuous use 12 amps leaves only 3 amps reserve capacity, so there better not be anything else running on the circuit like a shop vac dust extractor. Ergo, less than 12 amps. The whole power thing is really a matter of how much torque you can transmit to the drum.This in turn is a relationship betwee motor torque and the gearing between motor and drum.

Rounded platen edges are a must, but if anyone is really having a problem with this, they’re too lazy to round off the edges they would complain about. Then again, we’re dealing with surfers, so…

Helical blades are nice and all, but require a fixture to sharpen.

Grit drums are nice but so far at $250 for the Hitachi drum, not justifiable to the mass market. Carbide cutters probably better than HSS, though not as easy to sharpen. Provide a sharpening kit/fixture.

Speaking of mass market, at some time you are going to have to address the price point and compare to what is out there now by Bosch, Hitachi, Makita, etc. I expect these are all made in China as yours would almost have to be.

The dust exhaust should be able to rotate about a axis parallel to the drum axle, and it should be provided with adaptors to enable connection to various sizes of hose.

Trigger should have a socket or an interconnect to run or initiate the dust collection vacuum.

Cord length… suggest ten feet, three conductor stranded (flexible), or double insulated two conductor for lightness.

Cord should be easily detached from the motor for replacement.

At the motor housing exit the cord should be well reinforced so that it does not fail there by excessive flexing, and so it “stands off” like a legrope from the tool(less likely to become entangled and cut).

Wider cutting drum is better if torque is adequate/available.

Others have commented wrt handle angle, I’ll not go there, but it is a freqently mentioned item. My own feeling is that if the product is relatively heavy and you can’t easily swing it around for hours with one hand, you’ll get real tired in one forearm. Heavy planers (I think, like my old Craftsman which I no longer use) benefit from a handle more nearly parallel the working surface.

Lighter is better, which suggests a plastic case and double insulated tool. Weight has a place, but this is to me a planer for (mostly) foam not wood. To my thinking the perfect planer would be almost almost weightless, thus have almost no inertia and be infinitely sharp. That’s a recipe for danger, but this is a power tool and must be treated with respect.

If you put a knob up forward to enable two-handed use (tradeoff for light weight?) the knob should be reversible to accommodate those confused souls who have the misfortune to be left-handed.

Myself I have no use for on-the-fly depth adjustment.

Short and long (extendable) platen or “shoe” is desirable.

Easy access to motor brushes is almost standard these days.

Easily disassembled motor housing for cleaning. Jamming the compressed air nozzle in and hosing it really only pushes grit into bearings, etc.

Sealed bearings.

Reduce noise and vibration by having moving parts balanced and helical cutter.

Quite some time ago there was a post by someone who seemed to be “inside” at Skil, when the decision was made not to redesign the Skil 100 and compete with Asian-produce planers then about to come into the US market. The basis of this decision is unlikely to have changed.

… surely we will think of more.