Planer for both foam and wood

Boards getting expensive.

I was searching around . . . some points . . . I want to get a planer that you can use for both foam and wood. I don’t know too much about tools, but if I’m going to start . . . might as well start out on the right foot.

Comments?

Someone mentioned about using the Skil 100 for heavier jobs like balsa . . . but using the clark hitachi for foam. Rich H balsa shaping post he uses a skil 100 (or looks like one). Also other posts talk about how the foot of the clark mod had some groove taken out useful for wood but not for mowing foam, and other mods that don’t make it good for wood (like on the fly adjustable knob, I guess wood needs a knob that sticks like stock planers do).

Would the clark hitachi work for balsa? I’m assuming it would with the right blades . . .

People have mentioned bosch makes a good one that had good depth for shaping? Anyone use that for shaping and is it as sensitive as the CLark mod?

Virutex planers, anyone use them? I’ve read posts saying its the new skil to saying the foot is bigger than the planer itself and isn’t useful for surfboards. There was a post on Festool, anyone use their planers?

thanks ahead of time

I’ve never used the Clark mod Hitachi or the Skil, but I certainly have done a lot of both foam & balsa with my Bosch. The max cut is 5/32" where the others top out at 1/8" (4/32). The knob holds its position fine, but also goes zero-to-full-open in a 180* twist. The exhaust port can be switched from one side to another.

It does only have one blade, not two, so you have to go slow where you have transitions like stringers or glue lines, or you can get tearout. I’d say that’s the only downside.

While I haven’t used 'em on foam, I have used the Skil 100, Makita 3 1/4 and 6 and change, Harbor Freight Hitachi/Clark equivalent and ( my favorite) Rockwell/Porter Cable 653 on wood. Lots of wood.

And that’s on hard woods like oak and yellow pine, let alone balsa which by comparison is marshmallow fluff on a hot day.

The problem with the lighter ( plastic) planers is more tool chatter than lack of power- the light planer tends to bounce up when the blade contacts ( or smacks into) wood, especially harder wood. There isn’t that much inertia in a plastic planer, y’know? This can be dealt with using either a heavier planer or a spiral cutter that is pretty much cutting constantly rather than the whole edge smacking into the material - the Rockwell has both advantages.

My advice is to use steel cutters, not carbide, unless the wood is really hard, as a steel cutter can be made much sharper than carbide. The thing about carbide is that it is a hard and thus kinda brittle substance, not unlike a ceramic in some ways. And as such, the bevel of the blade cutting edge usually is made steeper than an equivalent steel blade. It’s more of a shear than a cut and in very soft woods like balsa it’ll fuzz up or start chipping and tearing the wood - you see something similar with crooked grained white pine, though to a lesser degree 'cos it’s a lot harder than balsa. Foam doesn’t have a grain or a fiber structure, so it’s a very different situation.

Having said that - if I was working with rather expensive balsa, lots of it laminated together, I think my tools of choice would be a drawknife, spoke shave and a couple of planes, perhaps a block plane and a jack plane ( all honed as sharp as I could make 'em ) , followed by a good deal of sanding with orbital and random orbital sanders.

That way, you’re not taking off so much so fast that if you catch a bit of funny grain in the wood you might wind up ripping the bejeebers out of your expensive balsa and sending great chunks off into the shop, the planer and so on. They can also teach you correct plane technique which transfers to power planes very nicely.

And… there is a certain existential pleasure in the use of a good and truly sharp, well and truly set up hand tool like a plane or drawknife or spokeshave. I won’t say more on that beyond that the pleasures in making something are not, or at least shouldn’t be, limited to the end product, rather the process can be a joy in itself, or else we’d all have time booked on shaping machines , no?

hope that’s of use

doc…

Hey Hiroprotagonist:

I personally own a Skil 100, the Clark Hitachi and the Porta cable 653, I agree with what Doc had to say about the Clark and the Harbor Freight about them being so light that they actually lift up while using. The Skil and the Porta Cable are big heavy machines. With the Porta Cable being the monster of them all. I have seen the Virutex planers and Festool planers on the job site and alot of good things have been said about them. The only bad part about the both of them, they are speciality planers made to do certain things. The Virutex makes three planers and wouldn’t you know it they don’t make one the size to shape surfboards, otherwise I think a lot of shapers would turn over and use their product. The planer is mostly made for timberframing. The Festool is more of a finish carpenter planer, a lot of craftsmen use the planers on the job site. It even has a vacuum system that hooks directly into the planer so the vacuum turns on when you turn on the planer.

I agree with Doc, that if you were going to shape a balsa board, try using the Skil or the Porta Cable as a tool. I personally use the Porta Cable when I am shaping a balsa board, due to its spiral blade as where the Skil has only two straight blades. I will not use the Clark Hatachi on balsa.

Hope this information works for you!

Surrfdaddy

wow. just checking on prices for the clark-hitachi planer and foamez doesn’t have them in stock and they raised the price to 350! I guess people think that its a collectors item now. Jeez.

Rio

I saw that too.

I wanted to pick up an extra one but not for 350.00

However I thought after last week all the sudden there would be about 50 skil 100S on ebay but not the case its still the usual 3 average.

I’m also there with Doc and Surfdaddy’s comments. As true with any job we ever do, using the most specialized tool possible for the job always makes the effort more efficient / rewarding / enjoyable / faster. It’s usually a compromise of course. A tack hammer is just easier to hold than an industrial jack-hammer, but if you have to take down a concrete wall… you know what I’m saying. I mention this because you say you want to use the same planer for both wood and foam. Going from foam to oak is not quite the same as going from tacks to concrete walls, but there is a huge difference in technique and therefore a calling for two different tools.

I know a guy on Maui who just had to have surgery on his elbow after too many years planing surfboards with a heavy skill 100. All that downward pressure on the front shoe. Unless you’re doing dense foam longboards, a beefy planer isn’t necessarily the best choice, but on oak, the smaller portables would skip around and beat you up if you spent the day at it.

Soooo, I suggest you decide how much wood vs foam you intend to mow and get your first planer accordingly. Then later, if that ratio doesn’t change, and you find some extra change, get another planer. If I had to choose one planer:

Foam boards only…Clark Hitachi

Mostly foam / some balsa boards… Clark Hitachi (keep extra sharp blades handy)

Balsa boards only …Skil 100 (sharp HSS blades)

Mostly balsa / some hardwoods…Skil 100 (HSS or carbide blades)

Hardwoods only…Rockwell / Porter Cable (same machine) #653 (carbide)

Good luck with your choice and Enjoy the ride!

Richard

I totally agree with what Richard has posted, I could not have said it better then that…Well said, Richard. :slight_smile:

Surrfdaddy

And I’ll toss in my agreement with both of the above gents.

Though I’ll note there are exceptions, for instance Phil Becker has used a 653 for mowing foam for many years and who knows how many thousand boards.

And myself, I like my 653 with HSS blade for hardwoods and softwoods, though I will admit that much of the hardwood I plane is still green, fresh from the sawmill and I do use a slightly slower feed rate than I would with, say, pine.

And, heh, if anybody has some 653 cutters in high speed steel that they have no use for, I have a home for 'em where they will be well loved and appreciated.

With heavier planers, pay serious attention to the height of your work piece, be it foam or wood. It increases the comfort and decreases the pain considerably. Had a similar situation with finish nailers ( pneumatic) - an old ( and damned heavy ) Senco I have gave me ^%$# tennis elbow over the course of one long house job, so this Yankee boy has a nice Hitachi finish nailer on his list for this year. And sundry benches and short ladders, to make life easier.

Now, let me repeat something I said earlier, mebbe expand on it.

You see, Richard, Surfdaddy and myself are doing work for pay here, and we have to produce. And power tools let us do that. In experienced hands they jack up production rates nicely, cutting material faster than hand tools. And if someone was going to be cranking out six balsa boards or more per week, by all means go nuts on power tools. Toss in a bandsaw or two, a jointer, table saw, thickness planer and maybe an overarm router for chambering.

But… if you are not going to be making more than one or two balsa boards per year, I might skip the power planer and the rest of the industrial grade kit. Speed isn’t an issue then, you’re not producing to a deadline. And it’s as much about the process as the product. So many guys want to have the same tools as ‘the pros use’ but they don’t and can’t put in the time with tools every day that the pros do and so can’t develop the feel for the tools the pros have from constant use and familiarity.So a professional power tool setup is the wrong setup to have.

Think about doing it with hand tools. Planes, drawknife, spoke shave, that sort of thing. You will have better control of the tool, several options of how to use it/them - maybe a spot the plane can’t quite do right but the spokeshave does just fine. Note that above I said that power tools are capable of upping the production ‘in experienced hands’ - in inexperienced hands they are weapons of medium-sized destruction. You can screw up an awful lot awfully fast.

In fact, we production guys still have pretty complete hand tool kits someplace handy. That’s where we got that experience that I referred to, with the hand tools when we were starting out, that lets us use power tools with some skill. Time spent with, say, an 18" corrugated sole hand plane gives you the feel for a power plane that lets you use it correctly.

I know I get a kind of guilty pleasure from using a hand tool on a job ( for pay) when maybe I could do it with a power tool. Besides there being some situations that the hand tool ( in my case, being a boat guy, an adze or broad hatchet) can do that a power tool can’t do in any reasonable amount of time. Maybe the minimum cut the power tool can do is too big and too uncontrollable for that last tiny slice it takes to get the fit right. But the properly sharpened hand tool can take off a shaving that will let light through.

Food for thought, anyways

doc…

I’m with Doc. And, even though I’ve had tools in my hands my whole life, I always slow down when I have a chance, because it feels so goooooood.

Hey thanks all . . . I’m going to check out the hand tools for balsa . … I’m convinced of the hand tool input. I read a story about Rabbit Kekai saying how guys on the islands (pre WW 2) would use drawknives. They even said some guys were so fast when a haole would show up with a nice redwood board, they’d let him surf and get all the waves for a while. Then one of them would push him off, and his board would wash in. He said some guys were so fast, a shaper would get the redwood board, using draw knives and hand tools, cut out a template, strip it, and true one rail by the time the owner finally swam in. As the owner went lookin for the board. He’d see the redwood board, and wonder, but the answer, “I’ve been workin on this for months.” That story has been sticking in me for a long time. It sucks how they stole a guy’s board, but the wood working thing drew me in.

IT’s funny when I visited here and began searching for wood surfboards, I only found hollows. It wasn’t like the way Rabbit had described, until I found out about chambered plank boards . . .

I dunno, its weird but cool how that Rabbit Kekai story caught my attention (and this was before I even caught my first wave!) about the wood working.

But also be doing EPS . . . so I’ll be looking for a planer . . . Sounds like skil, 653, and clark hitachi is out of the question unless I go for serious hunting . . . either on ebay, pawn shops, swam meets / flea markets etc … . They do have the newer porter cable, and the bosch seems within range . . . I’ve handled the Clark mod and see if any planer comes close.

Thanks again. I’ll be hitting up archives again for wood related stuff . . .

Richard’s advice is a bull’s eye.

Keep in mind however that within certain limits, even a lightweight Makita or Hitachi was originally designed to plane… wood(!) The lightweight models won’t allow as deep of a cut as a Skil 100 or Rockwell 653 so take it slow and shallow.

Hi, and nice to see another Stephenson fan, he wrote with a copy of Snow Crash in his nightstand bookshelf…

Ah, draw knives are fun. You can take off a lot or a little, change your bevel as you go along, work to your own pace instead of that the power dictates- I enjoy 'em. And spokeshaves, planes, compass planes, argh, the list goes on. Yard sales, flea markets and what have you are great places for old tools, especially the beat-looking but fixable ones that the ‘lets make it shiny’ tool collectors don’t want. I have a list of ‘other planes’ in the memory bin that’s just waiting for the opportunity.

There’s also some new planes ( notably the Anants ) which are copied from older planes that ain’t made any more- and apparently are somewhat better than the new, more cheaply made ‘equivalents’ from the original makers.

( a short break spent thinking about which planes to fondle next - mebbe a nice large rabbet plane, for timber framing tenon use, and a compass plane for inside curves and maybe a multiplane or the Stanley equivalent just for nifty mouldings and such…damn)

And benches with vises and bench dogs to make planing easier, and so on, and so on…now ya have me thinking of a really huge slab of oak I have in the stockpile and no conceivable use for it other than a bench top…

http://www.swaylocks.com/forum/gforum.cgi?post=204649 and http://www.swaylocks.com/forum/gforum.cgi?post=205994 show a couple other planers, the nice old aluminum-bodied PowerKrafts and a rather interesting Ryobi, which you can find here and there. Dunno if any more New Old Stock Powerkrafts are out there, but parts for old ones are available. I can’t say very much nice about the new plastic Porter-Cable, kinda wish they’d bring back the 653 like they brought back the 126 door planer. Truly nice tool.

Anyhow- enjoy

doc…

Doc,

Thanks for the mention, I also agree with you with everything that you said, I myself, enjoy using the bigger tools since I have used my dad’s tools from the 60’s (Skil does not make a 16" Circular saw anymore, which weighed in at about 30 lbs) I miss the way tools were made back then, but of course they are better in some respects today.

I have seen Phil Becker shape with the 653 and in my mind, I dont think that there is a shaper out there today that can match his skill with one. I don’t mean to be disrespectful to anybody, or even for myself because I have used the 653 for the last 15 years off and on. He is a monster using it, “A Pure Foam Eating Monster”.

I know when I first started in the trade, and I saw all the journeymen with the great tools that they had, I so wanted all of them. There is a factor called, “Money” and you need quite a bit of it for all the tools that would help you mass produce. My dad always said, “There are 9 thousand different ways to skin a cat, but in the end, the cat gets skinned no matter what.”

Look around and look to see what you can get away with be it with a hand plane, sandpaper, drawknife, or whatever tool you get. If you start doing more boards then you will be able to purchase the tools.

Respectfully

Surrfdaddy

Lets not forget the most important saying of all “He who has the most tools has more tools to clean”.

Ah yes,Surrfdaddy, I know just what you mean.

The Old Man favored the kinda quirky line of power tools Stanley put out, and that’s what I started off with - gave me a taste for all metal tools ( preferably polished alloy) , with some heft to 'em and some of the ergonometrics they had. To this day I have no use for circular saws with tilt depth adjustments. I like my Rockwells, though I might be tempted by a 16" worm drive Skil myself.

May well be that the best tool is what you have a feel for. One guy I work with swears by his hemongo Makita circular saw and he can do things with it that I wouldn’t attempt - hell, the thing gives me the willies just siting there. On the other hand, there’s gear I have that I use to do stuff I shouldn’t be able to do…and I think that applies to Phil Becker, use makes master, and daily use over decades takes you somewhere past that.

I still want every tool there is, except maybe those ya see at Kmart. But just maintaining them and getting the feel for 'em is gonna eat all your time. And then there is the notion of making money with the things - have to have enough work for 'em to justify buying the things. For instance, I have a lovely Porter Cable dovetail jig, great production tool, that sits at one end of my workbench and doesn’t do a helluva lot - overestimated the work I had available to it. In hindsight, a couple chisels , mallet and saw would have handled that work I did do with it just as well. The purchase wasn’t really justifiable - though I did it, idjit that I am.

And that’s a lesson; for every job that can be done with a power tool, there’s a hand tool that will do it at least as well, maybe better. Maybe not as fast, but with more control and with options and just stuff you can do that the power tool cant. And if the tool won’t pay for itself, well- tool collectors worry me, kinda like morticians in that their stuff lies there, dead but pretty.

On the other hand, it’s still there. Hasn’t evaporated, and if I get a little older and gimpier it’ll still be there if I want to do a lot of drawers, cabinet carcasses and such. I’m a sucker for production tools…

And, if I may be indulged - talking about fathers and sons and work, I was reminded of something from half a century back;

funny how things go on…

doc…

Hello Doc,

I can see by the picture that you were already studing for the “Superintendent’s Position”

I have a couple of pics pop and myself working, will have to post one.

I’m glad that you have great memories of your father and you working hand in hand.

Respectfully,

surrfdaddy

I guess we’re all guilty of oozing off from talking surfboards here, but discussion of tools always gets me going. The pic of you with your dad was great. My mentor was my grandfather, a carpenter. I noticed a few things in the pic that brought back memories of a different time. Looks like you guys are gathering nails. Remember when gathering nails up at the end of the day was common practice to save money? Guys would even bend back the crooked ones for tomorrow’s work. Also, the diagonal 1x6s for flooring, walls, and roofs was the common practice prior to ply and chipboard. Remember when 2x4s were actually 2"x4"? I live in a home built in 1929 and enjoy going up in the attic to view the hand engineered trusses all made of rough-sawn full dimension lumber. Flooring beams were always covered in creosole back then.

I’d love to find a shirt again like your dad has. Reminds me when plaid flannel shirts were what surfers wore in the 60s. Look at the cover of the Beach Boys “Surfer Girl” album. And your hat! Now there’s one to start a new trend, or on the other hand, I just saw a guy wearing dreads go by wearing one like that.

I wouldn’t go back to those days except to visit, but to summarize what I got from those times working with people like my grandpa, was a work ethic, and a passion to learn to do it right. “If you’re in a hurry and can’t take the time to do it right, then how the heck are you going to find the time to fix it?” I remember my grandpa saying, “Your name goes on everything you do…we share the same last name, so I’ve got a responsibility to make sure you do it right, and you therefore will do right by it”

I guess, in an attempt to bring all this banter back to crafting surfboards, there is a common thread here (pardon the pun). With all the high tech factories pumping out pop-outs for an overpopulated surf generation, we craftsmen, small businesses, and backyard shapers have a responsibility to “do right by it”. Among the many good things and good vibes of Swaylocks, it should also serve as encouragement to us all to do the best work possible. Life is better that way and, you gotta enjoy the ride!

Richard

flannel shirt - heavy mothers, I have a bunch in blue which are the standard Doc winter issue work shirt. The hat- well, someplace I have a picture of a guy wearing a genuine vintage Aqua Lid, which should frighten us all.

The old man used all ‘recycled’ wood in that house, god alone knows where he got the nails- half of 'em were Tremont cut nails, which I inherited the last of, still blue steel thirty years or so later.

Though at that point in time I suspect he was saying something like ‘listen, my idiot son, that’s a nail’. Heh- that was that house, I went through a few others later.

Then there was boat work…what a trip that was…

doc…

Awesome . . . thanks for all the information and stories!