Ok folks, I know it’s been tried a number of times, and I’ve even seen it referenced in a few threads, but I haven’t yet found “the” thread where everyone speaks out about it.
I may have just missed it, of course.
But anyway, lets hear it now! How does poly gloss work over an otherwise RR epoxy board? Finish quality/clarity, adhesion, clarity? What kind of surface prep on the epoxy hotcoat to get the poly to stick? Straight from the can, or kokua’s mix?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Ok folks, I know it’s been tried a number of times, and I’ve even seen it referenced in a few threads, but I haven’t yet found “the” thread where everyone speaks out about it.
I may have just missed it, of course.
But anyway, lets hear it now! How does poly gloss work over an otherwise RR epoxy board? Finish quality/clarity, adhesion, clarity? What kind of surface prep on the epoxy hotcoat to get the poly to stick? Straight from the can, or kokua’s mix?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Greg told me that poly will bond to RR epoxy but eventually the poly will start chipping off…maybe a year or 2 for this to happen but eventually it will. From what i understand is that most of the east coast guys used to do this but have now abandoned its use in favor of all epoxy construction.
I put a sealer (just a squeegee’s worth) coat over the weave with RR and gave it a light sand. No additive F. Then a sealer coat of raw poly. Then a mixture of 1/2 sanding and 1/2 gloss. Boards been on the water for two years – looks as good now as it did then. Had it in the full sun for hours at 9 degrees north. No problem. I would make sure you let the board cure out completely – about 5 days in warm weather. Clean with acetone, etc. If you put poly on amine blush, you are screwed.
1)I PREP W/SOAP AND WATER using a scrunge pad.2)Then wash it down lightly w/ acetone.3)DRY IT OFF after,4)Then a really,really hot batch of poly lam spread really thin over the whole board.5)Then hotcoat w/ reg. poly hotcoat resin…NOTE; when you prep,the fibers of the glass should protrude a bit all over the board.Never had a chip anywhere not even in my skateboards,in any amount of time.
Sorry Shine should have read your post first ? duh.
22 years. Thats one hell of a run, good dog! Congratulations Shelby!!!
epoxy dents, poly fractures. not mechanically compatible. Brittle over soft. It will stick and stay if you don’t flex it. maybe
In the early 80s some people showed up with snowboards they had shaped out of high density clark foam. They had some special poly resin forumlated to flex. They wanted the boards glassed the way you would a surfboard (fiberglass cloth layup, hotcoat, sand, gloss and polish). Now this is back when snowboarding was in its infancy. Metal edges and binding were’nt around yet. Anyway, the finished snowboards flexed way too much. And Im sure they did’nt work. So there is a way to formulate poly resin so it isnt so brittle. The goal is to get it to stick to epoxy by creating a strong mechanical bond.
The new generation epoxies and polyester resins are much better in reguard to flex and stiffness…like I said…
Howzit Atomized, that flex resin has been around for a while but it’s quite a bit more expensive than regular resin. I think it was used for high end boats. Thought about getting some a few years back but the price would drive up the price of the boards so people weren’t interested in buying boards built with it. Must be getting to old since I had basically forgot about it until you brought it up.Aloha,Kokua
One trick is to use a thin “tie coat” of linear polyurethane between the polyester and epoxy. The problem in the past was that the clear urethanes were not UV resistant, but in the last 2 or 3 years there are very good urethanes available. About 2 weeks ago I had the chance to use a new epoxy “outer coat” that seems to have the physicals similar to polyester. This includes sanding and polishing. So far, I am finding the boards (shortboards) made with this stuff are surfing unreal but I am trying to be cautious about claiming it completely yet… (sorry if I hijacked the thread a bit).
It would seem to me that hotcoating with epoxy and additive F would obviously be the stronger and most compatible approach. Since the aftermath of the Clark Bomb most poly-only glass shops in my area are now frantically trying get up and running with epoxy. Alot of them are relying on how they did it 10 or 15 years ago during the SVF foam (XPS) days. Most are hotcoating with poly. I’m sure as time goes by every body in the industry will standardize on a common procedure that works the best. The majority of the boards we do gets glossed with poly and polished. I have’nt seen much in this forum on how good or bad the result are when glossing with epoxy and how the stuff polishes.
I don’t prefer the feel of epoxy or raw poly on the surface of the water.They both grab/cling too much for me.I have set-up a superior speed bottom that so far is only compatable to polyester surfaces,in other words the product I use for speed coating will not stay on the epoxy…or polyurethane for any length of time…
…hey if you like urethanes there’s a waterbased formula that works killer.
I sanded my epoxy hotcoat down to 320 and then used Future Floor polish, about 3 coats, letting each coat dry over night, sanding with 400 before putting on the next coat. The results are good enough for me. People have asked me if I glossed. I guess in a way I did. You can also just put on another coat after a year or so. I had no problems with the polish clouding in the water mentioned in other posts.
Keep in mind I’ve made only two boards, so I’m not the expert some of these people are.
FYI,
I’m working on an 8’0" right now. It’s a Clark super light blank. I’m getting toward the finishing stage and have decided to minumize the weight increase that adding too much surface resin will create. I’ve based the bottom free lap and sanding lightly to get out the deeper low spots. I then took about 3 ounces of resin and with a squeege and brush to work the lower spots with another baste coat. I’m putting on the leash loop this afternoon will proceed with a fill coat on the whole board. I’m just going to sand all the way to 1200 and polish from there.
So far the weight feels fine. I’ve used very close to a quart of resin in total so far on the board.
It’s 8’0"x15.0"x21.5"x14.75"x3.0"
Lamination schedule:
Opaque color coat squeeged on to board in resin before lamination.
Clear free lap Direct size E glass.
Bottom ~ single 6oz.
Deck ~ double 4oz. with a central 4oz. stomp pad.
I’m hoping the board will finish under 13 lbs.
In the past I’ve been able to get a very high gloss on my epoxy boards. just by sanding to 1200, polishing and using a high grade auto wax finish. I see no reason to mix poly with epoxy as it seems to invite failure in a year or so. I have some good friends who are super surfers that have had magic boards fail where ploy was used over an epoxy lamination. Needless to say they were bummed out big time.
Herb’s technique may be the answer. Believe it! If anybody has figured out how to marry these two materials it’s Spitzer.
Each to their own ~
Good Waves, Rich
You can apply a polyester gloss coar over a Resin Research hot coat and get a great gloss finish. Good enough for Kane Garden and about half a dozen high profile labels controled by Ricky Carroll.