' PRE-PREG' ?? ..... help , please ?!

General Discussion
1

okay ,

 

  so following on from the

http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/carbon-fibre-veneer-advice    by Chris .....

 

 ( and , THANKS  very much for the generous parcel of the carbon fibre ...)

 

  I layed up three fin panels using the stuff.

 

 2   were 4" x 6" panels . tinted green .

 1  was an 8" x 10"  panel , this one was left clear [untinted resin].

 

  All looked good , all was going well, or so I thought .....

 

until the panels were prised of the pane of glass , flipped over , and ....

 

.....uh oh .....AIR BUBBLES EVERYWHERE !!!!  .....YIIIIKES !!

 

As 'Brumstar' observed , perhaps the stuff is too thick / not porous enough to allow resin THROUGH [? without vacuum-bagging the stuff?]

 

  I layed up two layers of 4 oz cloth , then a layer of the ?'pre-preg' carbon fibre , then HEAPS of layers of clear 4oz and 6oz [offcuts] over the top , till panel thickness .

 

  really SQUOOSHED [tech term] the resin into the mat stuff thoroughly [or at least , so I THOUGHT ??!!]

 

 

so ...

 

  the question is ...

 

  any suggestions as to how  /  IF this CAN  be rollered in[to] a fin panel ?

 

I use polyester resin , if that is important . My chemical supply guy seemed to think / suggest that perhaps the mat had been impregnated with EPOXY . In which case , can I / SHOULD I  use ONLY epoxy resin , for panels using this stuff ??

 

 

  thanks guys ,

 

  any help MUCH appreciated , as I don't want to waste time / cloth / money on a failed experiment , and certainly want to be able to USE the heaps of sheets of the stuff you so kindly sent me chris !!

 

  cheers

 

  ben

 

[as a bit of a preliminary search , I googled 'pre-preg' .....[this was just one of MANY entries that came up]...

 

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon-fiber-reinforced_polymer

2

Oops!

Pre preg doesn’t get resin added to it!  The resin is already there!  It is activated by heat, usually in the 200 degree range, and held in place by vacuum.  The heat a big reason it isn’t used for surfboards.

3

.....isn't  it  used for windsurfers , kitesurfers , snowboards , tennis racquets , golfclubs  , though ??

4

It is most likely epoxy. Your supplier is probably right. Prepreg is almost always “pregged” with epoxy because it’s pretty high-end stuff that wouldn’t use low-end polyester resin. And if yours has 200 degree cure, that’s pretty low temp on the scale for pre-pregs. But still too hot for PU or EPS foam. They do use pre-preg glass for snowboards, kiteboards, etc., but that’s because with wood cores or other high-tech foams they don’t have to worry about the foam melting.

5

hmmmm.... okay.

 

cheers Jamie !

 [thinking pause]

the two solutions / options I thought of were

1. try to sand the coating off [at least off both SIDES of the mat] ?

2. drill lots of little holes , as with the coremat I bought recently, to allow some resin THROUGH

It will be interesting to see , when I foil the latest gold tinted cf mat inlay panel , if it does actually delam ??

 

 [as I put the mat about 8 layers IN from the inside edge this time........

 

cheers guys !

 

any other ideas , feedback , suggestions , please keep em coming , guys ?!

 

 I really want to be able to [SUCCESSFULLY] USE this stuff for fin panels if possible !

 

ben

6

PRE PREG !!!!!!!!! A young wife haveing a baby 6 months after getting married , now thats PRE PREG !!!!!!!!!

7

hey woody,

 

  while youre there ??

 

  would a wire brush to make holes in the cloth work to let the resin through , you reckon ?

 

  any one ???

 

  cheers

 

  ben

8

try putting a heat gun to a small peace and just see if that kicks the pre preg if it does they the best thing to do is to put what you need into the oven and bake it on a glass sheet then you should be able to lay it into your fin layup. in less the pre preg is fully cured you wont get anything to stick to it and you will always get de lam unfortunately. 

9

Agree 100% with Charlie. You want to get that pre-preg cured before you do anything else to it like laminating it into a fin panel. Problem is you don’t know what  the cure temp/time is since it’s a mystery resin. I guess you could experiment untill you find out. Like Charlie says, put it in an oven and try 200 degrees first. Check every 15 minutes. You might need to go higher, like 300 degrees. That’s a pretty common temp for pre-preg epoxy. If there is any chance to ask the seller if he knows the cure properties of the resin, that would save you alot of headache.

10

this is good stuff , THANKS  guys !!

 

  The oven idea could work ...

 

  I guess my only reservations would be ...

 

1.  how TOXIC might the fumes from 'cooking ' carbon fibre get / be ?? [ I use my oven to cook in , occassionally]

 

and

 

2.  do I need to do it ['cook it'] to the carbon fibre , just before laying it on top of a glass panel [with AT LEAST 3 layers of cloth and resin on it ]. And if so , would it cause 'combustion' / pane of glass to crack , from the heat ?? Or let it cool down for a fair while , first , before adding it to the panel ?

 

    cheers !

 

      Ben

 

[ Also , I'll ask for one of those 'msds'  things [?material safety data sheet ?] on the stuff if possible , next time I see Will out at the suppliers place ....]

11

the pre preg i got hold of i cook at 100 deg  C for aprox 1hour  

 

cook it then let it cool and laminate it with whatever resin you are using 

weather its toxic or not i don’t know however if i cook any in my oven i make sure theres plenty of ventilation and leave it on a little while after just to be sure its all vented out. its probably not recommended but then so is a lot of stuff outer wise pick up a old oven from the scrapyard for free and put it in the shed.

12

Find out who manufactured the  weave , and send them an email.........you need to know what resin was in the pre-preg ....don't take a guess !

13

 

TECHNICAL OVERVIEW OF AUSPREG UV PRODUCTS 

			<p class="style2" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-right: 75px;">&nbsp;

			<p class="style3" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-right: 25px;">

Auspreg
UV is a range of UV curable resin impregnated fibre glass prepregs
which have been especially designed to cure from a wet plyable form to a
completely hard product within minutes through exposure to either
outdoors sunlight or high intensity artificial light. The technology is
useful for repairing a whole range of surfaces and parts as a long term
structural solution to wood, bitumen, concrete, metals and enables
repair of damaged materials without the need for costly replacement.
It is also highly effective in creating and manufacturing products in
place of traditional hand lay up manufacturing, infusion systems, and
oven cure methodologies.

						<p class="style3" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-right: 25px;">&nbsp;

						<p class="style3" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-right: 25px;">

The Auspreg UV materials cure with light and do not require heat or any
other chemicals to cure them. The product is supplied as either Vinyl
Ester or Polyester resin already impregnated on the fibre glass which
simply cures and hardens once exposed to light. Once hardened and
“cured”, Auspreg UV material forms an impenetrable completely hardened
structure with no additional post curing required. The resins on the
fibre glass act as both as an adhesive as well as the curing compound.
So multiple layers can be stacked up and cured at the same time and in a
single step or process. There is no need to do any anything else other
than apply light and a vacuum bagging process (see techniques).

						<p class="style3" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-right: 25px;">&nbsp;

						<p class="style3" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-right: 25px;">

The types of Auspreg UV material is extremely diverse as a result of the
amount of resins and glass materials available. The type of resin or
glass required will differ in each situation and we offer over 200
combinations to ensure that there is a prepreg material suitable for
your specific job requirement. Types of Glass materials offered
include: Chopped Strand Mat, Woven Roving, Biaxial, Triaxial,
Quadraxial, Double Bias, Unidirectional, Twill weave, Satin weave, plain
weave,

						<p class="style3" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-right: 25px;">&nbsp;

						<p class="style3" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-right: 25px;">

Auspreg UV material is so unique because of the way it is manufactured.
Australian Composites uses custom designed impregnation equipment with
highly sensitive computerised atomic “Beta Ray” gauges that determine
the exact amount of resin impregnated onto the glass. Therefore every
metre and kilo of Auspreg UV contains the same amount of resin as the
next down to .01mm variance. The uniformity of resin impregnation
offers the user the confidence that applying the product and curing the
product will be the same each time. The amount of resin added has been
carefully controlled so that exactly the right amount is deposited for
the requirement of each product and customer.

						<p class="style3" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-right: 25px;">&nbsp;

						<p class="style3" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-right: 25px;">

Auspreg UV is supplied in 20-40 kilo rolls, 1270mm wide and can be cut
down to any width required such as 600mm and even 300mm widths. The
product is partially cured and requires “B stage” curing through
exposure to light. Prior to curing, the product is flexible, easy to
cut, and easy to shape. For curing outside, normal daylight is
generally suitable as the light source. For Indoor lighting, generally
additional metal halide or mercury vapour lights are required.

						<p class="style3" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-right: 25px;">&nbsp;

						<p class="style3" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-right: 25px;">

Auspreg UV can be stored horizontal on a flat surface for at least 12
months in temperatures up to 60 C as long as it is sealed in its
original specialised multi layer packaging. There is no need for
refrigeration or special storage conditions. The product can also be
shipped without the need for refrigeration.

Auspreg UV materials are supplied with a thin sheet of polythin on each
side. This prevents the material from drying out or curing until it is
moulded into the exact position required.
 

						<p class="style3" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-right: 25px;">&nbsp;

 

 

**there ya are chip i am not an old cnt all the time**

** **

**cheers huie**

14

....VERY INTERESTING !!

 

I wonder if the stuff I have already may be cureable in the sun ?

 

  .....the temperature on my cement front balcony on a 38-40+ degree C  summer day DOES get right up there [?60c not sure , but THAT may be an interesting [?and  less toxic?] alternative to whacking it in my oven and risking poisonous roast chooks in the future eh ? haha]

 

  so ...

 

  the stuff you speak of 'Huie' ,

 

  WHERE does one see or order that , is there a website ?

 

  And have you used it on / in boards or fins ,  because it DOES sound a very interesting option .

 

 .... I wonder if others here have used it too ??

 

  " Auspreg UV is supplied in 20-40 kilo rolls, 1270mm wide and can be cut down to any width required such as 600mm and even 300mm widths "

  [ I would just like to try , say , an 8x10"  'offcut' of the stuff first [ if ever anyone had spare] , just to see...]

 

  cheers !

 

  ben