really looking forward to do the versaplane thing in this board
thanks to greg griffin btw for switching me on to five
Howzit Larry, Now that's nice to hear. I admire and respect them both for having an idea and taking the time and money to make it a reality plus Robin is a great shaper and Mitch has become the go to guy for repairs.Aloha, Kokua
just some thoughts…
seems to me that Silly and Kokua are right on. different systems have different benefits.
i’ve surfed and used both. both are really easy to use. both have a wide variety of fins.
probox is less hyped which i like. when i go to their website, i don’t have to sift through
quasitechnical mumbojumbo. i’ve only ever installed probox but it seems like FCS is pretty
straightforward also.
probox was a pleasure to install, easy to use, feels very strong. i’ve never used the different inserts yet
but, i have moved my fins fore and aft and was amazed at how different the board felt. different fins in
different positions for different waves is just great. i look forward to more surfing with the board to experiment
with different fin angles.
the new fcs box looks interesting. Seems Solo could do well reporting, i couldn’t find anything on the new
box. in my opinion, it seems like FCS built an empire around being the first option for shortboard removeable
fins and just marketing the crap out of them. add that to the K.S. factor and the predominantly fashion minded
masses of surfers and they were bound to sell. this new box seems like an attempt to catch up with some of
the more thought out boxes (probox, lokbox, etc.) and market to more discerning surfers more in tune with there
equipment. surfers who aren’t quick to ride what K.S. rides just because “if it works for him it must work for me.”
maybe silly is right, maybe they should stay the same. the benefits that he stated about their current plugs it seems
would be gone… maybe a better option would be to offer 2 different boxes. their current ones and new ones that
could incorporate adjustablility and hopefully more strength. obviously it would be in their best interest to make
sure that all of their fins would work in the new boxes.
as for me, i’ll continue to us probox untill there is a situation where i can’t (ie. thin tails, flexy boards) but, then it
seems like glass ons are the best option.
I switched the Lokbox to glassed over in 2001, the year I purchased it from fins unlimited. It was the first change I made to the system, and I was trying to get Bahne to do it for a couple of years before that. It was first developed and put on the market in '96. I’m not seeing how they took much from Probox or Lokbox (other than using a flange) for this new plug system. Probox has fore and aft adjustment, and cant adjustments. Lokbox has fore and aft adjustment as well as the ejectability feature. This new system seems to have just tied the 2 plugs together and made it glassed over with a flange. The comment for giving credit on being able to see the need for change and then changing it confused me a bit, since it’s coming after 15 years give or take of existence…
Quote:
I switched the Lokbox to glassed over in 2001, the year I purchased it from fins unlimited. It was the first change I made to the system, and I was trying to get Bahne to do it for a couple of years before that. It was first developed and put on the market in '96. I’m not seeing how they took much from Probox or Lokbox (other than using a flange) for this new plug system. Probox has fore and aft adjustment, and cant adjustments. Lokbox has fore and aft adjustment as well as the ejectability feature. This new system seems to have just tied the 2 plugs together and made it glassed over with a flange. The comment for giving credit on being able to see the need for change and then changing it confused me a bit, since it’s coming after 15 years give or take of existence…
Lok. Thank you for the response. I was hoping some of you guys would come on a comment. I was hoping FCS would come on an comment. My comment was a first blush comment because it does appear that the shape is similar to Probox, the flange similar to Lokbox and Futures etc. as well as the under the glass part. As for giving credit…thats why I posted that comment, because it does seem to be late in the game. Not a cut on them, but much of what I see has already been thought of. Thats why I want to see one in person before making a final call on it. I know shapers who say they think it will be a hit. I don’t know what I think about it at this point.
Its funny about these new fCS Boxes:
I did notice a new marketing direction(new for me, I hardly look at the industry rags: Surfer,Surfing except while shopping) for FCS lately where they compare a competitiors box system for either a Quad or Thruster
to the regular FCS cup fin system and show that the FCS system has more regions of flex left in the tail over a box system.
I think the comparison was made without fins in their slots.
Because with fins in the slots, the systems are more comparable as to how they tighten up the flex.
I thought the ad quitelaughable in a couple of areas…
But good at getting more mileage out of a system by throwing propaganda/marketing at the lads.
Now with their new FCS ‘boxes’ it is entirely laughable.
ChrisP, Thanks for your support and I think you guys will like what I have coming up soon. Mahalo,Larry
Quote:
I switched the Lokbox to glassed over in 2001, the year I purchased it from fins unlimited. It was the first change I made to the system, and I was trying to get Bahne to do it for a couple of years before that. It was first developed and put on the market in '96. I’m not seeing how they took much from Probox or Lokbox (other than using a flange) for this new plug system. Probox has fore and aft adjustment, and cant adjustments. Lokbox has fore and aft adjustment as well as the ejectability feature. This new system seems to have just tied the 2 plugs together and made it glassed over with a flange. The comment for giving credit on being able to see the need for change and then changing it confused me a bit, since it’s coming after 15 years give or take of existence…
Hi Jimmy,
I agree with you completely, 15 years of PREACHING how great TWO PLUGS are for tail flex and weight and then AHHHHH!! maybe “WE”(FCS)screwed up and need to change. And “WE”(FCS) will run full page ads saying we came up with something new because people only believe what they READ and FORGET the rest. LOL!!!
Jimmy, “MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and your family.” Mahalo,Larry
Quote:
Its funny about these new fCS Boxes:
I did notice a new marketing direction(new for me, I hardly look at the industry rags: Surfer,Surfing except while shopping) for FCS lately where they compare a competitiors box system for either a Quad or Thruster
to the regular FCS cup fin system and show that the FCS system has more regions of flex left in the tail over a box system.
I think the comparison was made without fins in their slots.
Because with fins in the slots, the systems are more comparable as to how they tighten up the flex.
I thought the ad quitelaughable in a couple of areas…
But good at getting more mileage out of a system by throwing propaganda/marketing at the lads.
Now with their new FCS ‘boxes’ it is entirely laughable.
Otis,
I was wondering how long it would take before someone would come up and say,“The regular FCS cup fin system and how that the FCS system has more regions of flex left in the tail over a box system. I think the comparison was made without fins in their slots.” You are right Otis, because once you put the fins in the plugs and tighten the screws they become one, not to mention being attached to the deck by the “H” pattern concept, WHERE"S the tail flex in that? " I think FIREWIRE figured that out and changed to FUTURE. GREAT post Otis! Mahalo,Larry
Merry Christmas Larry, and to all you swaylockians!!
Quote:
Hey Larry check your PM.
Troy
Hi Troy, Thanks for your PM. Mahalo, Larry
HI, SOON OR LATER MOST SERIOUS BOARD RIDERS WILL REALIZE THAT THERE IS NO BETTER FIN SYSTEM IN THE WORLD THAN PRO-BOX. IT TOOK FUTURES A LONG TIME TO BE ACCEPTED, HOPEFULLY IT WONT TAKE AS LONG FOR PRO-BOX. I WOULD THINK THAT ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE SURFERS WITH A SMALLER QUIVER, WOULDNT YOU WANT ALL THE POTENTIAL HORSEPOWER YOU CAN ATTAIN FROM YOUR BOARDS?? THE PAYING CUSTOMER SHOULD REALIZE YOU WANT YOUR HARD EARNED MONEYS WORTH FOR ANYTHING THAT YOU BUY. SO WHY SHOULDNT YOU GET A FIN SYSTEM WITH THE MOST POTENTIAL FOR ALL YOUR BOARDS?
TELL YOUR SHAPER YOU WANT YOUR BOARD WITH THE MOST ADVANCED FIN SYSTEM AVAILABLE. PRO- BOX TAKES FCS TO THE NEXT LEVEL OF PERFORMANCE, ONCE YOU GET PRO-BOX YOU WILL NEVER GO BACK…OVER 45 AND STILL RIDING SHORTBOARDS…
Recuerdo cuando los sistemas de aleta eran sólo para bordos de shippping y viajes de toma. El muchacho como los tiempos se han cambiado para unos.
Quote:
Recuerdo cuando los sistemas de aleta eran sólo para bordos de shippping y viajes de toma. El muchacho como los tiempos se han cambiado para unos.
Solo, Can you repeat that in English? (-: Mahalo, Larry
HERRROOOO, I PRESS 1 FOR ENGLISH, TRANSLATION PLEASE. DOMO ARRIGATO MISTER ROBOTO…
ALL THE YELLING IS GIVING ME A HEADACHE…
…please tone it down some.
thanks 
How much does Pro Box with insert weigh? Futures is 30gms and Lock Box is 40 gms. FCS just diced up their plugs to reduce plastic cost; but this replaced with resin mix when potted, still pretty light with reduced base length via tabs. Can’t see why they would flange over the traditional set up when a "glass over patch " almost accomplishes this.
Quote:
How much does Pro Box with insert weigh? Futures is 30gms and Lock Box is 40 gms. FCS just diced up their plugs to reduce plastic cost; but this replaced with resin mix when potted, still pretty light with reduced base length via tabs. Can’t see why they would flange over the traditional set up when a "glass over patch " almost accomplishes this.
Probox is 48 gms with insert…as if it matters one iota.
It matters to FCS and any company who cares to compete. They reduced direct hard cost on material for their plugs, as if that matters.... one delta . Then they add plastic on the new flanged product....... second delta. They made one product potentially lighter and perhaps even weaker while offering a "new improved" product for those who previously found plugs perhaps substandard. I dont know the #'s, but I would guess they make better margin on fins and there looking to move more product here, stating the obvious here. But theyre moving, groping more market share, directly from the box crowd. Small things matter when done on a larger scale especially when they monopolize and refuse to standardize.
Quote:
It matters to FCS and any company who cares to compete. They reduced direct hard cost on material for their plugs, as if that matters… one delta . Then they add plastic on the new flanged product… second delta. They made one product potentially lighter and perhaps even weaker while offering a “new improved” product for those who previously found plugs perhaps substandard. I dont know the #'s, but I would guess they make better margin on fins and there looking to move more product here, stating the obvious here. But theyre moving, groping more market share, directly from the box crowd. Small things matter when done on a larger scale especially when they monopolize and refuse to standardize.
I don’t really disagree with you on most of that, but I think a much bigger deal is made about weight when we are speaking of grms than needs to be. The average surfer can’t tell and I wonder if the pros can. I like heavier boards anyway, but when I rode them light…I don’t think the boxes make that much difference with the newer materials today. I agree about the weakness and other stuff.
I hear shapers still saying they kind of don’t like a fin manufacture dealing with cant and such because they get it right for their boards. So their are a host of different issues with fin box systems. I think weight it the least of them. Most are pretty light.